Accusations of Socialism Against Barack Obama

(SALEM, Ore.) - Detractors of the new U.S. President and developing American policy are increasingly using the word "Socialist" to describe Barack Obama's strategies.

In discussing Socialism in the U.S. and all the hype surrounding it recently, a friend said tonight on the phone, "I've worked with people from Socialist countries and they want nothing to do with that kind of lifestyle".

I had to ask at that point, "Socialist countries? Do you mean Communist countries that practiced some derivative of Marxism? Do you mean Russia?"

My longtime friend who has in fact spent time in some tough parts of Russia, stood corrected. He knows you can't compare socialized healthcare with Communism that in the end, even barely resembled the ideas brought forth by Karl Marx.

Wikipedia states, "Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital, creates an unequal society, and does not provide equal opportunities for everyone in society. Therefore socialists advocate the creation of a society in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly based on the amount of work expended in production, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved."

After eight years of this nation being gouged and ravaged by the extremely irresponsible politics of George W. Bush, I wouldn't be surprised if that kind of ideology had some form of appeal to the beaten down American public.

We all know the stories of the CEO's making millions of dollars a year and even using federal bailout money to buy new corporate jets. The way business is conducted in the United States has become nothing less than disgusting and people are sick of it, and at the end of their rope.

There is a really clean hot rod that has been through a lot of races and has plenty of miles. It has been in a wreck or two and the engine's been rebuilt, but the body shop and mechanics have always been able to keep this baby running and looking good. Every few years, a new driver takes the wheel, and the car goes to President Bush who drives it around for eight years. When he hands the keys to Obama, nobody ever recognizes the car. It has been wrecked so hard the frame is bent, the floorboards are rusted through, the interior is in shreds and a title loan company wants a ridiculous amount in order to get the pink slip back.

As far as I can tell from research, President Obama is not part of or even affiliated with the Socialist Party. It is a complete and total stretch, like trying to tie him to a former terrorist who he once sat on a board with; a person who committed crimes when Obama was a seven-year old boy.

This is a nation where people are branded with insults if they try to help poor people. It is as if it is an anti-Christian nation rather than a primarily Christian one.

But for those intent on stating that Obama is Socialist, I will keep describing what the Socialist Party actually is and what it means.

According to their Website, The Socialist Party's goal is to create a radical democracy that places people's lives under their own control: "A non-racist, classless, feminist socialist society... where working people own and control the means of production and distribution through democratically-controlled public agencies; where full employment is realized for everyone who wants to work; where workers have the right to form unions freely, and to strike and engage in other forms of job actions; and where the production of society is used for the benefit of all humanity, not for the private profit of a few."

The party states that socialism and democracy are one and indivisible, and they see the working class as a key and central position to fight back against they call "the ruling capitalist class and its power".

"The working class is the major force worldwide that can lead the way to a socialist future - to a real radical democracy from below. The Socialist Party fights for progressive changes compatible with a socialist future. We support militant working class struggles and electoral action, independent of the capitalist controlled two-party system, to present socialist alternatives."

Rather than referencing Communism, the Socialist Party says they strive for democratic revolutions, including radical and fundamental changes in the structure and quality of economic, political, and personal relations.

The party wants to "abolish the power now exercised by the few who control great wealth and the government. The Socialist Party is a democratic, multi-tendency organization, with structure and practices visible and accessible to all members."

While those goals and aspirations all stand to make a great deal of sense, they still are not the specific policies that President Obama is calling for or putting forth. Perhaps if insurance companies did not essentially run this nation, as many suggest they do, we would not have created a system of healthcare that has a ridiculous and unrealistic price tag for the average American; a person who still counts a great deal yet is discounted easily by the spirit of American corporate business.

Then you have the pharmaceutical companies which frequently charge Americans ten times what Canadians are charged for the same medications. These companies push the envelope at pricing and people have lost their ability to cope financially.

The United States has always been a nation of advancement. Today our average age of life is 78.6 years. People live longer in places like Bosnia and Herzegovina, South Korea, Jordan, Singapore and Monaco. The United States is wrought with problems regarding the care of our aging populations and the convalescent hospitals have proven time and time again to have little interest in patients but lots of interest in devouring their life savings.

The capitalist system has had its day in the United States and it appears that as an idea, it has failed under immense deregulation. It seems that our last President has plenty to value and treasure and his relentless pursuit of war and funding for Haliburton and other groups while sending Americans off ill-prepared into combat, has had exactly the affect most expected it would when it all began. Sadly, the country is different now and with the lack of support and continued assaults on our new President, it probably won't be getting better any time soon.

Win or lose though, I strongly suspect it won't fail legitimately over anything to do with Socialism or Acorn or a man named Reverend Wright who had the guts to stand up and talk about life and social injustice as if he had a pair. If it fails it will be over greed.

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tredfraurry September 9, 2013 5:17 am (Pacific time)

The US has evidence that the chemical the heebie-jeebies agent sarin was used in a livid attack in Damascus form month, Secretary of State John Kerry says. He said samples from trifle and blood gathered after the raid "tested persuasive for signatures of sarin". The US blames the Syrian superintendence through despite the 21 August attack. President Barack Obama has vowed punitive action but wants Congress to elector on it first. Syria dismissed the waiting and said it was prepared in search any strike. Arab Federation non-native ministers called on the Of like mind Nations and the supranational community to imagine "deterrent" effect against Syria. More: kredyt pozabankowy

William February 14, 2010 12:11 pm (Pacific time)

Socialism is big business, and your quote proves it. This is typical of socialism. "We all know the stories of the CEO's making millions of dollars a year and even using federal bailout money to buy new corporate jets. The way business is conducted in the United States has become nothing less than disgusting and people are sick of it, and at the end of their rope." This has been the result of the rape of the People by the redistribution of wealth. You've convicted yourself, with this statement alone.

Steve March 20, 2009 7:53 am (Pacific time)

As a fellow Marine veteran (not “former”) I just wanted to let you know many of us still believe in the capitalist system that you apparently have written off in your effort to be an apologist for Obama. I pray (yes I am also one of “those” evil Christians) that those who read your polemics will do their own homework and not be persuaded by your erroneous conclusions. It is unfortunate that you appear to use your affiliation with the Corps as some sort of added validation of your views.

It is also telling that your editorial comments here are so laced with vitriol and ad hominem attacks on the commenters. This is the favorite tactic of those who cannot debate their views on their merits that we see so much of from the "progressive" (never "socialist" under your analysis)community.

Cheers and Semper Fi

It's not a debate zone Steve, it is a news site. You have never given direct feedback to any other medium and that window of public opportunity may eventually close with the way things are going. So let me get this straight; I start my adult life with a three year enlistment in the Marine Corps, and I go as far as Iraq to cover my own unit at war, but I am wrong to cite that affiliation. Dude, you wrote a paragraph and referenced your own former membership in the Corps repeatedly. You don't think that is too far off do you? So by evil Christian, I take it you are pro killing (pro war and pro death penalty) but I assume you don't think women have a right to decide what they do with their own bodies, so you are anti freedom/anti-abortion? Now, you probably don't like poor people and do favor the rich like Goerge W. Bush; and I suppose even Obama's skin color probably irritates you whether you admit it or not. Evil Christian? No way man, that actually qualifies as a non-Christian. You tout and claim way too much man. If you are troubled by what we do around here, then spend twenty years of you life as a reporter and then five years building your own news site. You will never catch up and it is probably a physical impossibility for you do accomplish what I have, but you could try.

Cheers and Semper Fi back to you

Henry Ruark March 16, 2009 9:43 am (Pacific time)

Vandar: You wrote: "...but I am open to listening to an opposing viewpoint." Can hardly wait for your response after seeking out the three national reliable source magazines I cited, surely easily accessible to you. Won't hold breath awaiting yours after absorbing what they all show without question to be the major national consensus now...impossible to ignore in an ostensibly democratic republic driven by wit, wisdom, will of the very large majority.

Henry Ruark March 14, 2009 7:44 am (Pacific time)

To all: You may find it intriguing, as I did, that three national major "opinion" publications each carry major reports on "socialism","collapse of capitalism", and impacts on the Obama Presidency, in their current issues. See NATION (3/23) THE ATLANTIC (April;HARPERS(April) NOT listing titles here since too long, involved; see esp. Stiglitz in NATION, repeating Reagan-beginnings of current world economic crisis. We will report on summary of all these sources soon, via Op Ed or special content.

Vander March 13, 2009 2:26 pm (Pacific time)

Excuse me? I have commented here once before and DO NOT go by any other name. I care deeply for those poor and challenged that are truly in need. I just refuse to support trickle-up poverty. The problem with you and many other liberals is that unless you believe the way they do, you are an idiot. What happened to being inclusive? You want to shut up anyone who disagrees with your thinking. I suppose you also support the Fairness Doctrine. I read this site to get other opinions. Many I disagree with but I am open to listening to an opposing viewpoint.

Henry Ruark March 13, 2009 10:48 am (Pacific time)

To all:
For any who still do not undrstand the cataclysmic changes underway in our world, reflected everywhere via money and its impacts via "managed capitalism" in crisis, the single Introduction chapter of this reference will serve as basic anchor for cogitation and appreciation, sure to shape your ref. and response to all else. See:
"The Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World";Niall Ferguson; Penguin 2008;ISBN 978-1-59420-192-9

Vander March 12, 2009 7:02 pm (Pacific time)

All I have to say is what ever happened to personal responsibilty? Why should I as someone who works his ass off year after year, be forced to cough up my hard earned dollars to pay for an illegal immigrant or non-motivated (many homeless and poor are like this) person's health care? Welfare is one example of how my tax dollars are being wasted. Take a look at our inner cities. High crime, fatherless children, high unemployment. These problems grew exponentially once these people started getting a government handout. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out welfare doesn't work. The truly needy suffer because of selfish and lazy humans. And now I am being asked to contribute more of my hard earned dollars? No thanks. Now I am no fan of greedy bastards like Wall Street or huge Corporations either but lets not go all crazy here with all this nationalization.

Editor: All you are with your overcharacterization of poor and homelessx people, is part of the sick and greedy culture that wants to stand there like a toddler screaming "mine, mine mine" all damned day long. Your point is that you are selfish and have no aspect of your life that resembles Christianity or any goodwill toward mankind at all. There are a couple of movies you should watch. One is A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens. Go find your news elsewhere little man, and don't think I don't recognize your IP Mike which is the name you probably use most often. Once again a reminder to all who visit here. You might get the impression that many people who visit Salem-News.com and leave comments are largely right wing and almost fascist in their choice of words. This "character" who today uses the name "Vander" manifests over and over again with his right wing rantings. So, when you read that crap around here, just remember that there are a few paid and a few just rampantly dedicated GOP operatives who are specifically paid to troll for specific keywords and lay on the comments. The most interesing part of it is that we are one of the only high traffic news sites that approves or disapproves all comments in person and believe me it takes a lot of staff time. Please disregard any whiny people like this who bash the poor and mentally challenged.

gail parker March 12, 2009 11:09 am (Pacific time)

Hey Vic, you hit it on the button. Poor but not miserable. Our utilities here are about $50 every two months. Nobody has credit, therefor people buy what they can afford and it is not the Columbia Sportswear that is in the store for the rich tourists. Food and consumer goods prices are inflating but we still get organic milk which we carry home from the dairy in a glass jar for about $250 a gallon. Lots of nice organic produce is available because the chemicals are expensive. Our taxes are a reasonable $25 dollars a month with a 40% discount for paying a year at a time. Now this is using your noggin'. Of course our roads are not paved but then only about 30% of the population owns an auto. Towns and cities are designed to be walked, there is an excellant bus system and a cheap taxi system. I can go anywhere in town for 2 bucks if it is raining or I have a broken foot. This is not socialism, it is intelligent design

Henry Ruark March 11, 2009 8:50 pm (Pacific time)

Chris: You wrote:"Also for the record: there is no evidence to suggest that capitalism has failed, on the contrary, allowing free market capitalism to work is the only thing that will pull our economy our of the gutter." Yours is either badly misinformed or malignly meant to distort/pervert the actual record. There is no question that the largest consensus of most economists, from both major economic camps, has come to the unmistakable and inevitable conclusion that the neoconnery policies followed since the Reaganomics debacle, including the heaviest public debt up to that time and the considerable wreckage from rich-rewarding tax-slashes, then reversed to ward off inevitable consequences, is the true cause of our world-wide economic, credit, fiscal and social collapse now under way. (See previous Op Eds for further explanation.) IF you can produce any documenting evidence for your personal-feeling/based and ill-considered, wildly over- stated, radical view, please send links for "see with own eyes" examination by all. We are then able to judge by some other more credible presentation than yours, then followed by evaluation with own minds by all who view your claimed evidence. For most, that rational and reasonable approach has proven much more valuable than the off-shooting consequences of the most rapid b-button massage. IF you are unable to do so, then perhaps you will have the personal felicity and improved judgment to withdraw your wild statements.

Henry Ruark March 11, 2009 7:19 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Be sure to check out Comments re separatist drive for new Civil War, under Tim's story re LA-int'v, currently running above.

Henry Ruark March 11, 2009 2:17 pm (Pacific time)

To all: For detailed information re early, continuing, repeated government handouts, see: "Short History of Government Handouts" by Stephen Lendman, a student of this whole area specializing in globalization: www.openednews.com/populum/print_friendly.php?p=A-S --------------- If one wishes to dialog on this area, the least one can do is to properly prepare by seeking out definitive statements. Slows down and modifies the tendency to pop off with only b-button/feeling as content communicated.

Henry Ruark March 11, 2009 1:59 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Here's "see with own eyes" reliable updater on actual reality in U.S. politics today, with detailed further report available: www.americanprogress.org Twenty Years of Demographic, Geographic, and Attitudinal Changes Across the Country Herald a New Progressive Majority By Ruy Teixeira |10/ 11, 2009 During the 2008 presidential campaign, Barack Obama ran on a strongly progressive program that included a promise of universal health care coverage, a dramatic transformation to a low-carbon economy, and a historic investment in education—alongside broad hints that substantial government spending and regulation would be required to deal with the economic and financial crises. He also promised a new, more cooperative approach to international relations. Obama received 53 percent of the popular vote to 46 percent for his conservative opponent John McCain and carried the electoral vote by an even more substantial 365-to-173 margin. Read more and download the report." ---------------- Factsd are facts; this is reality reported by rational, responsible, highly regarded national organization known for solid documentation.

Henry Ruark March 11, 2009 1:46 pm (Pacific time)

To all: For earlier definitive detail re strong "socialistic" role played for U.S. progress from 1776 onwards, see Op Ed "Socialism" Shades U.S. Business From Capitalist Heat",10/29/08; via "Written by"-line in mine under STAFF. 3re pgh: "The first actions of our first American Congress were to subsidize manufacturers by establishing tariffs; then to set up a national bank with already-esablished private firm." Sounds eerily familiar, right ? OR should that be RIGHT ??a

ChrisJones March 11, 2009 1:04 pm (Pacific time)

Also for the record: there is no evidence to suggest that capitalism has failed, on the contrary, allowing free market capitalism to work is the only thing that will pull our economy our of the gutter.

ChrisJones March 11, 2009 12:55 am (Pacific time)

We prolly coulda had soft socialism, but bush and obama spent all of "our money" that we don't actually have, on quasi-neocommu/fascismocracy already. We just gotta have anything BUT freedom I guess. Liberty is so way too bourgeois now. God forbid we use economic policies that have been proven to work throughout our history in this country. When paper money was actually backed by an item of value, instead of nothing? (what a novel idea) At the VERY LEAST, our government can print up it's own worthless paper currency can't it?? Why does the government have to pay to borrow money from the inflationist highly secret private federal reserve that it could easily print out of thin air by itself?? What the powers that be don't want to admit is that FREEDOM = PROSPERITY. We could have this economy going full steam for real this time if we made a few major changes, AS LONG AS WE CAN KEEP (what's left of)OUR PRECIOUS PRECIOUS LIBERTY. Obama and his minions think it's a way better idea to gamble away ours and our descendants' future on massive shot in the dark style, maniacally insane haphazard government intervention coupled with continuing war and loss of, as well as lack of restoration of, civil liberties. Oh yeah don't forget our heath control with the mandatory deadly vaccines. It isn't hard to see why many object to obama's mysterious and suspiciously vague shadowy agenda.

Daniel March 10, 2009 11:04 pm (Pacific time)

Tim looks like you pushed peoples hot button on this issue . Good article , i also agree the health care cost in this country are criminal . My friend recently had a three day stay in an Oregon hospital and his cost with insurance was over $30,000 , the insurance payed the other $90,000 . No major surgery just 3 days with tests and meds . I am sure there are many more horror stories out there with worse result . The health care system is better in Mexico as far as cost and quality of service . The better hospitals in Mexico are modern and well staffed at a fraction of US costs . The worst hospitals you dont want to go too , same in this country . Why does Mexico a poorer country have more affordable doctors and dentists ? If its socialism that keeps families from going broke over excessive medical costs , please bring it on . There are too many working people in Oregon that need affordable dental work , young and old , if socialism can fix their teeth bring it on . This is reality for many who suffer in silence because they cant afford help , call it what ever but bring some needed care . Unfortunately the plan i see presented will not solve many of these problems , but it its a step in the correct direction .

Sweet Jesus March 10, 2009 7:53 pm (Pacific time)

Stephen: Don't be an idiot. There are people who haven't enough to eat, and families in the Sacramento area who live in tents; no fault of their own. The unemployment rate in Elkhart, IN, is 18.5% I was raised in the 30s of the Great Depression when all we had to eat was stale bread spread with lard and sprinkled with sugar, plus a glass of milk. My two oldest brothers died of TB before it was over because we could not help ourslves ENOUGH to survive in spite of Jesus who I gather is your savior You are rich and complaining SOB who has no idea of what decency means. So, shut up!

stephen March 10, 2009 6:46 pm (Pacific time)

I sent this earlier, but it didnt get posted. Probably my fault. THought it was interesting truth to share. http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=380

stephen March 10, 2009 6:41 pm (Pacific time)

It has come to my attention after reading the posts that socialism comes from laziness of the people. I am too tired, I am ignorant, I have no desire for life as it was intended.. please take care of me. I am afraid, please hold me. etc. This is why socialism will never work in the U.S. We have a Constitution, which young kids fought for. Andrew Jackson was 15 when fighting. Socialism is slavery to the weak. Democracy is whoever has the most money and guns. The Republic is laws that were based upon learning history. The Republic is the best thing going. But, you actually have to work. How dare me even say such a thing.

stephen March 10, 2009 5:40 pm (Pacific time)

obama voted to extend monies to fund the Iraq war. Obama strongly supported the Sept 2008 bailout. Obama is bombing the heck ouot of the middle east. As much as the Bush regime made huge amounts of damage, all I am seeing is a half black Bush who is following all the Bush agendas. Maybe working for the same boss? But throwing crumbs to try and pretend he is different. same ol same ol.. By the way.. the stimulus package says no worker documentation necessary. Which mean illegals will have a free ride. Not against hispanics, just making my point how obama just took the bush baton. Open border policy, New World Order where we will pay our carbon taxes to the elite bankers that caused this economic crisis, to become savior and fix it all. Create a crisis, and come in with the solution that suits the rich. History repeats itself. barky obushma

Henry Ruark March 10, 2009 4:18 pm (Pacific time)

Vic: Sounds to me as if your Dad had read the original Marx declaration itself... His description surely doth detail working experience where it has been tried... BUT it never was, never will be, same as socialism, which has in contrast an enviable record wherever actually put into place and allowed to operate, usually with injected democratic protocols and patterns modifying, and sometimes magnifying, what the socialist root supplied. Our manipulated "friends" clustering to this thread are badly confused by inferior information planted in their "use this" in-boxes...

Henry Ruark March 10, 2009 4:12 pm (Pacific time)

lance s.: Perhaps you are failing to recognize and appreciate the Op Ed format expressing an "informed opinion", sir, confusing it with ordinary reporting based on communication of fact. That's all too common with those used to canned-stuff, as in msmedia and too many broadcast, made palatable by pernicious lack of insight worth strong expression. Try moving to something a bit higher than h.s. texts; it sometimes helps with managing meaning, but does little for magnifying cogitation. You could also check IQ-level, for certainty of possible achievements...

ken ramey March 10, 2009 3:36 pm (Pacific time)

Anon: just stumbled on this and thought it might interest you. A quote from the book Don Quixote; "WORKS OF CHARITY DONE COLDLY AND GRUDGINGLY POSSESS NO MERIT AND AVAIL NOTHING." [Chapter IX, p193. THE SPANISH INQUISITION by Cecil Roth - re: THE INDEX]: "This clearly approached the border of Lutheran doctrine, and was expurgtatd by order of the Inquisition." To which Cervantes added, "I would have made the book more interesting, had it not been for the Holy Office."

Vic March 10, 2009 2:43 pm (Pacific time)

Very much appreciate your post, Gail. Last year we lived in Mexico which is pretty much socialistic, it seems. A trip to the hospital was 150 pesos across the board..ten dollars US. Our last monthly electric bill there was $3.22..three dollars and twenty two cents!. While there wasnt as much affluence there as here, people seemed to be pretty happy. The basic things needed to get by..food, shelter and utilities, were dirt cheap...anything beyond that, luxuries, electronics etc. tended to be more expensive than here, which surprised us. Overall, we really liked the result. Love the Hoover quote, Henry! Reminds me of what my dad told me about Communism...."it's like marriage,it looks good on paper, but hardly ever works out"..

Bobby March 10, 2009 2:41 pm (Pacific time)

Tim, having written what I did about Pelosi and Reid, and liberals in general, I will admit that some socialism is good. I simply believe that the power hungry people I mentioned will never stop at some. I believe for instance, that it is an outrage, a total outrage, concerning the lies that laizze faire capitalists and the Republican establishment constantly spouts about free health care. Every modern Western Nation has free health care, and no, it has not ruined their economies, like we are always told. These Republican idiots would rather that people have no health care, which is the case with millions of poor Americans. I just wanted to make it clear that you are not totally wrong on all points Tim. God bless.

Tim King: thanks Bobby.

Bobby March 10, 2009 1:52 pm (Pacific time)

When in the world are some of you Americans going to realize that militant liberalism is going to destroy your standard of living? Most Americans feel that liberals craziness, all the ridiculous programs they have, etc. is just fine and sometimes even funny--as long as it doesn't mess with My standard of living. LISTEN YOU DOPES!! It will mess with your standard of living and even your freedom of expression and other rights. These people are communist and dictatorial at heart. Nancy Pelosi, Reid, and the rest are toxic to most Americans, utterly toxic.

Bobby March 10, 2009 1:51 pm (Pacific time)

JonnyAmerican March 10, 2009 1:24 pm (Pacific time)

Dude, you don't fool anyone, your a total Socialist! And the sad thing is our enemy has destroyed our economic capitalistic system intentionally so we could be ussered in to Socialism. There is only 2 forms of Government, Oligarcy and Republic form with constitution. Socialism leads only to Oligarcy. Wake-up because YOU'VE BEEN SUCKERED! Oh by the way, if you give me your family cow I will give you some beans to plant so you can climb the stock and get that golden goose!

Tim King: Jonny, you are entitled to any fantasy you wish to believe in. I'm amazed that you managed to leave out dictatorships. Everyone knows whose fault this really is and you are right in that Pelosi has been of little help. That is because she is barely a Democrat half the time

lance sjogren March 10, 2009 1:20 pm (Pacific time)

I believe the most reasonable definition of socialism is a form of government in which industry is run by government rather than private interests. Obama's policies shift our nation somewhat in a Socialist direction but not anywhere near what could reasonably be called a Socialist system. The author of the article had a reasonable point to make, too bad he greatly undermined his own point by throwing in a whole bunch of propagandistic comments that reflected his own personal prejudices rather than addressing the premise the article supposedly was addressing.

Henry Ruark March 10, 2009 10:55 am (Pacific time)

To all: Herbert Hoover wrote: "The trouble with capitalism is capitalists. They're too greedy." Then there's E.J. Dionne, noted commonsense columnist: "Seeing the record of the past is clearly essential to fixing the future"> Surely both statements apply NOW re falsified view of alternatives to what's proven so longterm horrendously hurtful for the whole world economy. "Neo-connery" has gottta go, despite constant contrived consummate propagandizing to obscure and minimize its very obvious machinations mangling what commonsense-applied tells us we must do: Put the best of all known systems to work to recreate our world wisely.

Henry Ruark March 10, 2009 10:35 am (Pacific time)

Gail: You wrote:"It beats me why Americans want to cling to antiquated cold war propaganda and pay through the nose so that they can maintain some rediculous notion that casino capitalisim is superior to the human systems of health and education that other countries have long ago found helpful to all and improve their nations." Straight-talk from one who "IS there, living it" always better even than "see with own eyes" rational, reasonable for anyone still able to cogitate. Thank you for simple facts slicing heart out of machine noise propaganda perpetrated here for malign personal political pandering purposes. Note NO similar heartfelt statement from those seeking to persuade vs proven reality.

Henry Ruark March 10, 2009 10:21 am (Pacific time)

Eddie: You wrote:"We probably now need to look again at alternative ideas whether they be socialist, communist, anarchist or progressive and use these ideas as FDR did to craft a new prosperous and democratic future for ourselves." That commonsense approach is what most skilled observers with analytic experience will also state, given opportunity and courtesy of some attention by cogitating readership. NOT by coincidence that has been theme of Op Eds here for past three years or so --by dint of hard-painful learning from complex contact with wide variety of consultant clients and necessity to produce very workable media for them.

Henry Ruark March 10, 2009 10:06 am (Pacific time)

Gail, Neal: Thank you for honest, open dialog from strong life experience, accurately analyzed, right on topic here. Perhaps should never refer to longtime perspective since provided simply by survival to old-age (91!) with no claim to further wisdom. (But perhaps some attained skills in true content analysis !!) BUT great to see others younger reading realities as they existed and are still clearly recalled here. BUT again, if many refuse to learn from potent past real life experience in America, we have responsibility to make sure the facts and history clearly teach... Your participation greatly appreciated here, clearly offsetting noise machine clatter/clutter imposed for propaganda purposes,damaging some real views by honest others with true dissents.

Henry Ruark March 10, 2009 9:56 am (Pacific time)

qui vivi: You wrote:"Those who condemn in advance, who respond wrongly, and accuse falsely, appear to have been taught to attack." That mode of debate is one laid out in detail in Far Right and neocon statements of purpose and plan. The "noise machine" sometime mentioned here is ongoing collaboration, sometimes reaching state of conspiracy, in action ever since FDR days, strengthened, made part of GOP operations ever since Reagan. It began with Far Right billionare funding of think tank, foundation, publication, information channels, has continued ever since, both by consensus and multi-party special agreement, sometimes deeper,broader, more intense than at other times, always heavily funded, sometimes with intensities at state level, as noted in Oregon. Control of media is demanded for any continued longterm, slow-action, seductive, every- channel mind-attack, as per previously demonstrated in fascist regimes, with same recognizable, checkable, testable methods obviously in operation in this nation for past several decades. Those who seek freedom must first be able to recognize it AND its responsibilities. To deny latter while snatching at former is not only perilous but can be fatal to any form of democracy. Abuse of First Amendment rights by attack on open, honest channels is one of early, easy to recognize symptoms of heavy drive for fascist control. Once recognized, strongest, sometimes ONLY, counterattack is by control of channel to alleviate abuses while still allowing freedom of expression for those recognizing their responsibilities, and providing due information to guarantee accountabilities. Every conversation is shaped by knowledge of participants; dialog demands precisely the same attention to WHO says WHAT to WHOM, for WHAT PURPOSE which has long been major functional check-pattern for professional communicators.

stephen March 10, 2009 6:32 am (Pacific time)

Chuck Norris was in the Air Force.. seems as tho he remembers his oath: http://www.infowars.com/chuck-norris-claims-thousands-of-right-wing-cell-groups-exist-and-will-rebel-against-us-government/

Eddie Zawaski March 10, 2009 6:20 am (Pacific time)

Thanks for bringing the issue of our understanding of socialism to light here. Unfortunately, the right wing political establishment in the USA has long twisted the image and definition of socialism and then used it as a bogeyman to frighten Americans from considering any alternative to extreme capitalism. During the Great Depression FDR and his aides were regularly branded as socialists by Republicans who had no other way to oppose or discredit his policies. Right-leaning politics in the USA has a long tradition of setting up a straw man, someone you define on your own terms, and then tearing the straw man down to make themselves look good. As the Republicans twisted America's perceptions of socialism in the 1930's, so they twisted our ideas about liberalism in the past several decades. As in the 1930's, however, America's extreme capitalist system is in crisis and again on the brink of collapse. FDR may or may not have been a socialist, but he used many socialist ideas and grafted them onto our capitalist system in order to save it. Instead of revolution and the radically new order in America that many expected in those dark years, capitalism modified by the New Deal came back to life and prospered. Only after most of FDR's "socialist" programs had been repealed or abandoned, did our system crash again. We probably now need to look again at alternative ideas whether they be socialist, communist, anarchist or progressive and use these ideas as FDR did to craft a new prosperous and democratic future for ourselves. While today's Republicans may try to brand Obama as a socialist, he appears, at least to me, to be a non-ideological pragmatist who seems committed to repairing the capitalist system he inherited with any idea that will work.

gail parker March 10, 2009 5:14 am (Pacific time)

I live in Patagonia in a democracy and I just broke my fifth metatarsal. Since it could have been a serious break, I went to the trauma doc ($20) who prescibed an xray ($12) and a wolker boot ($30 rental fee) followed by a brace ($11) and a battery of labs $25) and an Rx cream for the pain ($20) for a grand total of $119 for a treatment in a third world country where all, even temporary residents like me can get free medical care. I went to the private health clinic as I could afford the amount which was less than my copay would have been with insurance in the US. My treatment would have been free had I chosen to do so. I live here because I can't afford to retire in Oregon. Socialized medicine in Canada, where my neice is a physican pays less than 5 % to administrate while the in the US the costs are about 30 cents on every dollar. She makes a nice wage that started at $35,000 per year and doesn't have to work her ass off so she has time to be a good mother. Her Canadian education was a fraction of what it would have cost in the US. It beats me why Americans want to cling to antiquated cold war propaganda and pay through the nose so that they can maintain some rediculous notion that casino capitalisim is superior to the human systems of health and education that other countries have long ago found helpful to all and improve their nations.

Goodluck March 10, 2009 1:32 am (Pacific time)

Every society has its problems that need to be dealt with. Wealthy nations can deal with their problems better than poor nations. History has proven that no system creates wealth better than Capitalism. Capitalism is superior.

keyes fan March 9, 2009 8:28 pm (Pacific time)

On Monday, Keyes wrote, “Obama’s Soviet-style com-munist state is a Tyrannosaurus Rex on parade in the Jurassic Park of dangerous political excursions. For a moment it’s exciting to get close-up and touchy-feely with something so old that we thought of as extinct. Then we remember that at feeding time, we’re on the menu.” According to Keyes, if during the election, people had set aside Obama’s empty rhetoric to ask just what kind of change he was proposing, “They would have examined it long and hard enough to see that it’s not change at all – just the same ugly grab for power and control that has marred every socialist movement in the world, and produced the sort of results that toppled the Soviet Empire and that have taken other countries … from prosperity to starvation.”

stephen March 9, 2009 8:08 pm (Pacific time)

it comes down to those who want to be free, and those who want control because they dont know how to be free.. Those who want freedom will die for it. those who want control want to save their lives.. Those who want freedom will live forever, and those who want others to control them will be slaves. world war three has begun.. I, for one am just gonna sing my way thru it, and trust in Jesus. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNOJc0w-fzY enjoy your slavery..you asked for it.

qui vivi March 9, 2009 7:51 pm (Pacific time)

It is difficult NOT to come to the conclusion that the limited number of responders to articles appearing in the Salem-News are from people who use it as a platform to spread Republican propaganda. The Party itself is beholden to the Passive Voice that decides who will say what, and that voice appears to be of an Evangelical nature. One suspects it was the “decider” in the selection of Sarah Palin as John McCain’s running mate, less for what she could contribute immediately than as a test of her obedience to the dictates of the Republican Holy See that expects to be running the show in years to come. Rush Limbaugh and “Socialism” currently are the sweetheart and “evil” to describe what President Obama presumably espouses. In Limbaugh’s case, anyone who implies a negative toward him is immediately required to apologize to him, proving only that they have sold their soul to the Holy See that also provides keywords to be used to undermine our President’s good intentions. Semantics is the study of how not to be a damn fool. “Substitute “boss” for “socialist,” “scab” or “Democrat” or other loaded terms that cause of blowing of propaganda-type fuses, and the result will be the same. Those who condemn in advance, who respond wrongly, and accuse falsely, appear to have been taught to attack. They are not the voices of prophets, but propagators of doom who, whether they realize it or not, are acting out the cause of others and whose ignorance and rhetoric adds to the error of their mentors. If they cannot criticize or applaud in less than 100 words, they shouldn’t be given a public platform to poison ad try to destroy what’s right for America.

Henry Ruark March 9, 2009 6:23 pm (Pacific time)

To all: "Anon" 2:2pm mine, sorry to have sent inadvertently as anonymous.

Henry Ruark March 9, 2009 6:21 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Part of big picture re GOP/neocon noise machine operations is to vilify and subdue reporters in any way accomplishable. That includes false accusations such as under examination here and ever more broadly across nation as people become well aware of 30 years devoted to duplicity, smear-and-noise, and other attributes of fascist cabal at work. Here's "see with own eyes" from Rob't Parry, who broke Iran/Contra/Reagan story: The American Media Misdiagnosis By Robert Parry March 2, 2009 "It’s widely agreed that there are a number of factors dragging down American newspapers, including the economic recession and the impact of the Internet, but a reason rarely mentioned is that the national news media failed in its most important job – to serve as a watchdog for the people. "As Americans look out over the wreckage of the past three decades – and especially the last eight years – there have been too many times when the constitutionally protected U.S. news media didn’t raise the alarm or even joined in spreading misinformation that advanced the disastrous mismanagement of the U.S. economy and government. "Not that anyone should derive pleasure from watching once formidable institutions like the New York Times and the Washington Post fade into pale shadows of their former selves. "But it also must be acknowledged that decisions by senior management of those and other top news organizations contributed to their own decline, especially the failure to stand up to the Right’s increasingly effective propaganda that emerged in the late 1970s in the wake of Richard Nixon’s Watergate debacle and the American defeat in Vietnam. "The Right was determined to prevent “another Watergate” and “another Vietnam.” So, key Republican strategists, such as former Treasury Secretary William Simon, went to work building their own media infrastructure, which included special groups to attack mainstream reporters who got in the way." ------------ Use link to discover many more juicy details from Parry work.

Anonymous March 9, 2009 6:13 pm (Pacific time)

I don't know if many of you are aware but there have been many "Tea Parties" going on all over the country drawing thousands of protestor's re: Obama's policies. Is that the dumbest thing you're ever heard? Adorned with bowie knives, pistols and peaceful exasperation...they honestly look like retards.

stephen March 9, 2009 4:53 pm (Pacific time)

posted this earlier, didnt come up. posting again to see if I am being censored or if it was my fault for some reason.
Anyway.. just changing the mood.
An excerpt from an article from David Wilkerson. you can find the entire article at www.trunews.com
“Stand still. Fear not. This is the hour of salvation. You are going to witness the pulling down of the foundations of a world power. But in the same hour, I will fight for you. Hold your peace — be still and see my works.”

Beloved, my warning is just one voice among many who are saying the same thing. We may all tremble for a season, but those who truly know God’s Word will be quickly comforted by the Holy Spirit. We will be baptized with a great peace — a supernatural quietness — which will be a tremendous witness to the fearful multitudes.

Also..my video is doing quite well. 4100 hits and 29 comments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNOJc0w-fzY

p.s. I have regrets that I gave tim at salem news my personal information.. be careful out there. This obama love has made people crazy. :-)

Editor: Stephen: Your earlier email said you wanted to "change the subject" and that is why it wasn't approved. The comments are to stay on topic always and that's the deal. Our visitors open a story expecting to read comments want to know what people think about the story. No offense, but the video link needs to be relevant. Thanks for working within those guidelines, I appreciate it.

Anonymous March 9, 2009 2:26 pm (Pacific time)

markm et al: Many see beginnings of fascism, exact opposite of socialism, in Reagan regime; its impact imperative to understand for overall "big picture". Here's "see with own eyes" from new source: The Man Who Sold the World: Ronald Reagan and the Betrayal of Main Street America Posted By admin On March 9 Twenty years ago, one of the most lionized American presidents left office: Republican Ronald Reagan, whose legacy conservatives cite as quintessentially in favor of working Americans. Reagan still enjoys vast popularity in the American imagination, despite the fact that his economic policies, shorthandedly referred to as Reaganomics, set in motion today’s financial collapse. In the latest disturbing news, the US unemployment rate jumped to 8.1% in February, the highest level in 25 years, and higher than economists predicted. The jobless rate has already reached the average rate that the White House projected for the whole year. William Kleinknecht is a veteran reporter and crime correspondent for the Newark Star-Ledger. He is also a staunch critic of Reagan’s policies and has a new book called “The Man Who Sold the World: Ronald Reagan and the Betrayal of Main Street America.” In it Kleinknecht argues that Reagan’s tax, regulatory and anti-trust policies are directly responsible for the current economic climate, and that his massive cuts to government programs have destroyed both small towns and urban centers. GUEST: William Kleinknecht, veteran reporter and crime correspondent for the Newark Star-Ledger, author of “The Man Who Sold the World: Ronald Reagan and the Betrayal of Main Street America.” Article printed from uprisingradio.org: http://uprisingradio.org/home URL to article: http://uprisingradio.org/home/?p=6242

Vic March 9, 2009 1:58 pm (Pacific time)

"Fascism is a radical, authoritarian nationalist ideology that aims to create a single-party state with a government led by a dictator who seeks national unity and development by requiring individuals to subordinate self-interest to the collective interest of the nation or race. Fascist movements promote violence between nations, political factions, and races as part of a social Darwinist and militarist stance that views violence between these groups as a natural and positive part of evolution. In the view of these groups being in perpetual conflict, fascists believe only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and have an aggressive warrior mentality by conquering, dominating, and eventually eliminating people deemed weak and degenerate. Fascist governments permanently forbid and suppress all criticism and opposition to the government and the fascist movement, viewing all dissenters as enemies to be destroyed. Fascist movements oppose any ideology or political system that gives direct political power to people as individuals rather than as a collective nation or race that is deemed detrimental to national identity and unity that protects and empowers people deemed weak and degenerate that seek to preserve institutions and values that restrict the social or biological development and unity of a nation or race and that undermine the military strength and military ambitions of the nation ." Wikipedia

Vic March 9, 2009 1:41 pm (Pacific time)

Best freakin article Ive read in a long time !! Ive always considered myself an Anarchist, but Socialism sounds pretty good, and doable. Actually anarchy in it's true sense is a lot like socialism. Anyways, awesome article...Thanks !

Henry Ruark March 9, 2009 1:36 pm (Pacific time)

markm: You wrote: "...how simpletons such as the author of the article can wail about alleged "abuses" by the Bush administration (i.e., exercising wartime powers that were less intrusive or restrictive than those used by FDR during WWII) and then turn right around and suggest that the central government should be handed even more power!" FDR had real World War on his hands. Bush's was his own preemptive attack to snatch oil from Iraq for empire-building purposes, with purpose clearly exposed via plan written, publicly sought from Clinton, well in advance of 9/11 and documented by Kristol, Cheney, Libby, others signed onto conspiratorial program thus promulgated and put into early action. (NOT naming it as test for your actual knowledge...which, if admitted, also shows your lack of good faith.) Imperial President has been worst bugaboo ever since the Founders first began The Federalist Papers. Given these facts, now who is the simpleton ? Can you document denial of anything stated here ? IF so, do so now for further illumination of what MUST be distortion or perversion...

Mike March 9, 2009 1:32 pm (Pacific time)

Do some people consider words/terms like "illegal" and "illegal alien" dehumanizing? These are bonafide descriptors that reflect the status of those in this country who did not enter through prescribed lawful means. I also suggest that comparing the current U.S healthcare system with Canada and different countries throughout the world will make it quite apparent that our system is far superior. That is why people of means come to this country for medical treatment, as well as those who are able to sneak in and enter our emergency system. We cannot take care of the whole world without sacrificing our own citizens to the medical mediocrity we find elsewhere and would quickly have here. Some of you take anecdotal information and use it as how it is in other countries, that is why you are wrong. Look at the big (macro) picture. Even drug products in Canada are often made in America and subsidized by the Canadian taxpayer, that's why they're cheaper. Once you take the profit out of RX and different medical equipment, then there goes research and development that produces the medical miracles America's capitalist system creates. If socialistic policies are so great, then Russia beggining in 1917 would be the primier leader in all human endeavors. Followed by China, Europe, Cuba, North Korea, etc. Well folks, we are the best, and we are the best because of our free market system. Some say the world hates us, but they still want to live here. Go figure.

Henry Ruark March 9, 2009 1:21 pm (Pacific time)

To all: My ref. to Soros actions ends by error with three words seeming to denigrate those actions: "...malign neocon purposes. Those were unintentional, do NOT apply to Soros, are there only by inadvertent error. Sorry, friends !!!

Henry Ruark March 9, 2009 1:17 pm (Pacific time)

RICH: You wrote:"...assuming more power over the free market system." Given freefall "off a cliff" for economy (Warren Buffett !) would you have them DO NOTHING ? !! If NOT, what's YOUR plan ? Do you want MORE or LESS stimulus, since SOMEbody gotta DO SOMEthing ? Do we NATIONALIZE banks, or free them up to do more and similar stupidities ?? Do we count on "magic of the markets", per Reagan cabal, then neocon/Bush/Cheney/gang ? THAT was neo-connery from first word "GO" in Reaganonmics, declared failure within its first year by R's Budget Director Stockman, who stayed on to preside over largest national debt-ever 3 years later, precurson of whole era of "Greed s good !", still driving corporate predators as in housing market. Easy words, but when action demanded, nothing new, nothing creative, nothing different from ANY bewailing what's being done...and it AIN'T "socialism", except distorted for political pandering use.

Henry Ruark March 9, 2009 12:37 pm (Pacific time)

Anon et al: Yrs re non-academics "seem to know more" is area of considerable communications research over years, since surely indicates huge waste of funding if true. Longtime research simply summarized shows that most of that effect comes from fact that non-knowledge confirms large public misunderstandings due to uninformation or misinformation, sometimes to malign distortion/perversion by those who so gain. This knowledge was one of reasons for GOP noise machine now notorious for success in smearing such concepts as "liberal", "socialism", for malign neocon purposes. Current example is ref. to Soros people and what they set up as policy, entirely without commonsense understandings if one knows Soros' actions. malign neocon purposes.

Henry Ruark March 9, 2009 11:52 am (Pacific time)

Mark/M et al: Yours ostensibly reviewing socialism shows horrendous, malign misunderstanding and distorted statements re democracy, socialism, relation of one to the other, and worst of all clear perversion for what our Founders stated very precisely and presciently in The Federalist Papers...which, please note, ran as newspaper reports originally. Have YOU ever read any or all of them, totalling over 50, built by intense dialog via every to/be-leader in the Revolutionary development of what we started-with ? Go back and retrace what you state, point by point; you may find yourself shame-faced. OR perhaps NOT, noting some who come here for their own purposes.

Anonymous March 9, 2009 12:05 pm (Pacific time)

Many people spend years in academic pursuit to actually understand some of the concepts being addressed in this article. I have found that those who spent very little time in academia seem to know more than those who did.

Tim King: That is really interesting.

Clearly March 9, 2009 11:58 am (Pacific time)

Anyone using Moore and any of his propaganda flicks as an example of reality needs to reassess their viewpoints and seek more knowlegeable sources. Canada's healthcare system is okay if you don't get sick and need an immediate diagnosis like a ct scan. People are dying there from undiagnosed medical conditions that are easily addressed here. Even illegals going to hospital emergency rooms here in the states get better healthcare than the Canadians. If a national healthcare system is enacted, we do not have the manpower resources to handle the millions who come into that system, so rationing will take place, that is a given. It takes many years to train the doctors, nurses and other health workers we would need. I expect that the masses of citizens will come together and congress will start deep sixing Obama's legislation. Let's face it, it is not Obama coming up with these policies, have you ever seen his grades in college? It's the people who work for Soros and people like him that create these policies that will not work.

Editor: Illegals? What is that anyway? For a second I thought you mean people who are not living here according to the rules, but your dehumanizing use of words is not missed. Why are you bothering with this anyway? People know Canada's healthcare system is outstanding and you are simply incorrect. By the way, it can be pretty hard these days for a person to gain healthcare access if they don't have legal residence status. You listen to pure propaganda friend and you are not taking in the right information. Michael Moore has little to gain from his films and he is frustrating, but honest. I don't mean this as an insult, but did you grow up prejudice? If that is the case, then I understand your tone and approach and I'm sorry that you were forced to grow up in that kind of culture; for that I have pity.

Henry Ruark March 9, 2009 11:40 am (Pacific time)

To all: Here's "see with own eyes" re real meaning of socialism, already in place and working for us: www.ourfuture.org Government-Funded Health Care? We're Already Two-Thirds There By Sara Robinson Created 03/06/2009 - 3:58pm Summary: "Americans don't need socialized medicine!" Uncle Con bellows. You really want to stop Uncle Con in mid-breath? Simple. Recite these statistics concerning who already gets most or all of their health care via some form of government-subsidized system. My fictitious conservative uncle—let's call him Uncle Con—is at it again. "Americans don't need socialized medicine!" he bellows, doing his very best Rush Limbaugh impression—which pretty much lets you know where this particular set of talking points came from. (When he whines, you know he's been listening to Bill O'Reilly. If he comes across willfully ignorant and pugnacious, he's been hitting the Hannity hard again. Try it at home: Field ID on right-wing talking points = hours of fun for the whole family!) You really want to stop Uncle Con in mid-breath? Simple. Just ask him who pays for his health care. If he's over 65, his doctors are being paid by exactly the same kind of God-forsaken Commie single-payer health care that Canadians have. (If he's got a supplemental policy—well, Canadians get those, too.) If he's a veteran, he's even farther gone—the VA, that well-known cadre of fellow travelers, is pretty much the mirror image of the UK's 100 percent socialized medical service. It's fair to ask: If these systems are good enough for him, why aren't they good enough for his kids and his grandkids? When I started paying attention to this, I was stunned at how many of these anti-"socialized medicine" blowhards are, themselves, fully-vested beneficiaries of government-subsidized health care. In fact, I was so intrigued by this phenomenon that I started keeping count. And then I did some research. And then I ran some numbers. And the conclusions were absolutely staggering. The inescapable fact of the matter is this: Only about a third of the country is still dependent on the "dominant" paradigm—private plans paid for by non-government employers. Everybody else in the country—over 200 million of us—gets most or all of their health care via some form of government-subsidized system." ----------- See rest for fully damning detail and be informed ! SO, all you UNbelievers, NOW you gonna refuse med/care ??

Seneca March 9, 2009 11:39 am (Pacific time)

Obviously, Jesus was a capitalist. Were he alive today, his primary concern clearly would be to amass as much money as possible for himself. I mean, doesn't Scripture suggest that?

FedUp March 9, 2009 11:34 am (Pacific time)

Mr. King did you hit your head before writing this? First using wikipedia for a source of information shows a lack of meaningful research. The basic definition of Socialism is Government control over any aspect of life that should be under personal control. This includes finance, healthcare, business etc. Now if you look at what Obama and the democrats in congress have done since 20 January 2009, it all fits under that definition quite nicely. Secondly as pointed out in another comment, no one said Obama was a member of the socialist party. What this article equates to is another attempt to defend a man that wants to bring European style socialism to this country, which in the long run will fail. Finally I will ask the next time you decide to write something like this please make sure you have evidence to back up your claims and that the facts back up your evidence. This is called logical debate.

Tim King: Why don't you actually read the article? I use Wikipedia frequently but that isn't the only source and so what? Everything you say is fantasy make-believe. You know no more about the basic principles of Socialism than you do any other subject you probably shouldn't be commenting on. I used quotes directly from the Socialist Party, but you know better, right? Did you secretly write their by-laws and then hide them and replace them with a "public version"? You can invent and concoct all the words you want but you aren't making sense. The facts are that Obama is not a Socialist and the Socialist Party is not about "Government control over any aspect of life that should be under personal control." You are full of it! I mean you are nothing but a propaganda machine, and that isn't allowed here. We work in facts. We go to the source. That is what I did in this case, have a nice day.

Henry Clay Ruark March 9, 2009 9:06 am (Pacific time)

To all:
First: Never saw a word of this until I just read it.
Second: Never have discussed the topic with Tim.
Third: His statement right on the money (no pun !); is absolutely accurate on every point I checked; reflects the realities he describes re Bush regime and predessors; AND makes large point those charging "socialism" with evil impacts in our current society simply do NOT know whereof they speak.

"Bad-word/generation" was one of the stated objectives of the GOP Noise Machine, begun even before Reagan, by making "liberal" a curse-word.

Then-malign Sovietism was generalized into easily-hated "communism" when that one wore out with Soviet full collapse.

Substituting "socialism" whenever possible was simple shift based on same distortion and perversion, motivated by large success-then by a few socialist-style countries with social/cultural success,feared by ruling elite/clique here.

Historically, health care there has out-run ours-here for broader-base participation even though far from perfect.
(Have some experience here via work for national healthcare association client of LMA.)

Whole-world picture now in process of fundamental change, with billions of new workers just reaching own levels of middle-class (see recent Op Ed); globalization forcing new trade patterns,and failures in our own democracy generating great internal heat for return to democracy and empowerment AGAIN of ordinary persons,
by reinstating Constitutional principles provided by our Founding Fathers. (See Op Eds over past three years !)

Continuing known distortion, perversion via deliberate MIS-information is surely NOT wise, nor democratic, nor in any way "patriotic" --we need strong citizen understandings, generated by accurate, honest journalism, rebuilding what Founders intended, still open to achievement by our efforts.

One thing is for sure: Either WE do it for OURSELVES or others will DO what THEY choose to build increasingly strong move into fascism, even to feudalism --per neo-connery since Reagan.

ben March 9, 2009 11:29 am (Pacific time)

i pity the fool who don't think obama is invoking teh socialism!

Krys B. March 9, 2009 11:27 am (Pacific time)

[I had to ask at that point, "Socialist countries? Do you mean Communist countries that practiced some derivative of Marxism? Do you mean Russia?"]

Only a delinquent could ask such question. Russia was never communist or socialist country. The Soviet Union was and not exactly communist by their own admission. They were the country on its way through socializm to communism, one which, they claimed, was the first to exit the stage of "proletariat dictatorship" (the post-revolution regime which supposedly is a "historical necessity". All Soviet satellites were socialist countries which, "liberated" by the Soviets from the imperialist regimes did not have to suffer a lengthy 'proletiariat dictatorship' but instead move directly to socialism, and from there to communism. Tha author should probably read a little political science materials, thos related to the Soviet dominationin Eastern Europe. As a person born and raised in that system (Poland, dear delinquent, which never was communist country but was a socialist country according to the accepoded marxist definitions, a can not only assure you, but prove showing historical facts, that the system is selfdestructive and develops only in one direction: bureaucracy. Which in the end bankrupts the system itself. It's like Ouroboros - a serpent that devours its own tail. Eventually, it reaches its head and dies.
I wish the author move to Cuba or Venezuela, where he could live happily ever after with his socialist dreams...

Tim King: You are from a Communist nation, and you claim to know a lot for someone who doesn't have the most basic point of their own heritage figured out. I have a friend who escaped from Poland in the 1980's and it was over and past the Iron Curtain. I suppose there are technicalities that you can fall back on; verbage and semantics regarding Socialism, but that's it. Your entire view is distorted. The only reason these countries used "Socialist" instead of Communist when they did, is because it sounds so much better. Have you considered taking your politics back to Poland? Nobody who resorts to name calling deserves a dignified response, but you got one anyway, you former Communist.

ablaut March 9, 2009 11:22 am (Pacific time)

"markm" brought up the point that the United States "was founded upon the belief that power cannot be overly centralized." Be it via large central government or large capitalist entities, we end up at the same place -- too much power in the hands of too few people.

robp March 9, 2009 11:17 am (Pacific time)

not a socialist. Because you put the word socialism into every sentence does not equate to having intelligence!

BPM March 9, 2009 11:17 am (Pacific time)

Whenever opponents give examples of socialism they do not mention places like Scandinavia, Germany, New Zealand, etc. who's citizens live longer and are less deprived than the average American.

Nick March 9, 2009 11:13 am (Pacific time)

Editor: That miserable little excuse for a man named Bush ruined this country and you can lie all day and it will make no difference. Bush supporters are who you should thank for the miserable mess we are all in. Did you hear that 1800 homes are currently for sale in Detroit for under ten grand each? Nobody wants to take your property man, you seriously need to read this story and try to comprehend it rather than just being all pissed off about it.

robp March 9, 2009 11:12 am (Pacific time)

mark, put "mortgage based securities and derivatives" in place of "product" in everything you wrote and that will explain to you why capitalism is for the greedy like you, who can only defend their greed, take everyone's hard earned money and savings then pretend like none of this is the rich sectors fault who dictate the laws and regulations for their own benefit because they can afford to pay off (lobby) those making the laws. Your way of thinking of obsolete and the market and everyone's frustration with people like you is proof enough there needs to be drastic change!

markm March 9, 2009 10:50 am (Pacific time)

It never ceases to amaze me how far socialists will go to rationalize and even camoflage their beliefs. First and foremost: "Democracy" is a process that applies to governance, not to private property. If I invent a product, risk my capital, time and labor to produce and market that product, and provide gainful employment to other people by virtue of my product, I am not a "criminal" and my product is not to be seized by some "worker's collective" after some government bureaucrat has decided that I have "made enough money". Socialism is a wimpish effort to reconcile Communism with Democracy, and it suffers from the same ills as communism. Socialism does not respect private property. Socialism presupposes that the government owns all money and property and has some inherent right to redistribute it . Socialism gives the bureaucracy life and death power over our lives. What really amazes me is how simpletons such as the author of the article can wail about alleged "abuses" by the Bush administration (i.e., exercising wartime powers that were less intrusive or restrictive than those used by FDR during WWII) and then turn right around and suggest that the central government should be handed even more power! What...is government suddenly going to become honest? Will abuses of authority by petty bureacrats suddenly go away? Our Republic (hint to the cognitively challenged: The USA is a Republic, not a democracy.) was founded upon the belief that power cannot be overly centralized. At the other end of the spectrum, however, was a rejection of the "democrac concept" because a democracy is a lynch mob. Our Republic walks a fine line between the two extremes of tyranny, and it would serve (liberals and ultra-conservatives alike) well to study actual constitutional law and the actual founding documents.

Mark March 9, 2009 10:36 am (Pacific time)

Thanks for the thoughtful and, as far as I'm concerned, accurate portrait of socialism. The great pity is that the people criticizing Obama (and your article) ignore the fact that the "great middle class" that gives this country so much strength was built on "socialist" ideas that corrected the abuses of capitalism by the robber barons at the start of the 20th century. Too bad those ideas were so easily reversed by Reaganomics and the relegation of public interest oversight into corporate hands. I guess its true that those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it. Thanks again.

Robert March 9, 2009 10:34 am (Pacific time)

Question - why are people poor?
Are you telling the world that poor people do not have the ability to become self-sustaining or even gain wealth? What's the difference between someone you label rich and someone poor? I'll tell you the difference, the rich person either inherited the wealth or built it. The American Dream is that no matter what your current financial status you have the opportunity to change those circumstances. The only people that should be poor in this country are those that do NOT have the ability to work, the physically and mentally deficient. That is not the case currently in our country.
I also love how you mention the cost of prescription drugs in the U.S. versus Canada but fail to discuss the disfunction that is the Canadian Healthcare system. Anytime citizens from one country go to another country to assistance you would think that is not an example you would want to use to profess the positives for moving into a similar system; and yes I am talking about people coming from Canada to the U.S. for testing and treatment because they can not wait in line for 4 weeks for a CT scan.

Tim King: I have family from Canada and all they do is praise the healthcare system. As far as your first paragraph, I have read that one out of three people on this earth suffers from mental illness. Then you have the people traumatized by abuse as kids and that is all too common.. Where people end up in life has everything to do with where they start. The wealthy and greedy classes have bankrupted this nation and soiled our reputation in the world. Have you ever watched Michael Moore's "Sicko"? Until you have, you are vastly undereducated about healthcare in the world. Let me put it this way; helping people access healthcare builds the workforce.

Henry Ruark March 9, 2009 10:33 am (Pacific time)

M/Mich: Thank you for insighful words setting facts in line neatly and very nicely. You're dead right on each point, and all concerned, if they can summon intellectual strength enough to wait out reasonable effort, will see how correct you are. Question for all: What OTHER plan, or source, or funding, or detailed action, can you suggest ? IF you have ANY, why not detail in documented statement right here, NOW, and we can then lead nation in placing YOUR plan before entire population ? Ref. to past unacceptable; we all know who did what, why and how... JUST detail YOUR PLAN and lay it on us right here !!!

Mark March 9, 2009 10:32 am (Pacific time)

Xander March 9, 2009 10:30 am (Pacific time)

You have to love how, when the editor is trying to explain how ties between Socialism and President Obama are pretty slim, he gets immediately called a socialist by the Dittoheads. But hey, I guess I can get where they're coming from. It's alot easier to follow someone else than to think for yourself. Less stress involved eh? To the writer. Great article.

Raptoraddict March 9, 2009 10:27 am (Pacific time)

Don't all of you remember "flip-flopping" or the "Swift boat attacks". This whole "Socialism" issue is just a way for the party who is currently out of power to try and be relevant, in this case the Republicans. It is the ago old political trick of slinging as much horse manure as possible and seeing what sticks. Socialism is just another way to try and force a wedge between the good people of America, and of course the media has to report on this "Breaking News"! No insult intended Tim. Maybe it is time to actually talk with your neighbors about how you feel and stop taking cheap anonymous shots at others that are actually trying to help all Americans. Socialism…we should all be so lucky.

Tim King: What on earth do you mean by anonymous? I am possibly one of the least anonymous people on this earth. I have almost 900 articles currently on Google with my name. Anyone who knows their butt from a hole in the ground knows I am the founder and Editor of Salem-News. That not only was an indended insult; it made no sense. Learn your own language and the definition of words

Henry Ruark March 9, 2009 10:26 am (Pacific time)

Chris et al: YES--I did check out Gallup report, read entire thing, can show you in detail how their questions shape answers. Do not question their good faith;they know can only do so-much via poll methods, work within that, expect persons to understand limitations. Depends entirely on public understanding of terms-used, as decades of research clearly shows for anyone informed on this subject. "Redistribution" no matter how NOW-referred, is distorted/perverted via noise machine intention over decades of Far Right-funded operation. IF you ID to Editor Tim, with full disclosure proving good faith, will nail down points one-by-one, any time. IF you do not understand poll methods, protocol, plan and proceedings, suggest you dig up re advanced grad-degree textbooks, can list some for you as needed.

murr March 9, 2009 10:24 am (Pacific time)

If the majority of people want full health coverage for all americans and elect representatives who then enact what they want, how is that not democracy rather than socialism?

Bill March 9, 2009 10:22 am (Pacific time)

Editor, what does an equilateral parallelogram (square) have to do with prejudiced poor-haters? That said, our current problems have been brewing since the civil war. Bush and Obama are just perpetuating and enhancing the problem by making the federal government bigger. Chris Jones hit the nail on the head, central planning can't work.

Editor: Oh you know why I said that, a square is a slang term for people who have no ability to see from beyond their own point of view; the sheep, the men who never ride motorcycles and the women who rally agains rights for their own gender. The fake Christians, those who "root" for war and mean nasty little presidents like W. They are people who put themselves first part of the time, but not always. Quiet squares are pretty harmless, but mean and angry ones grow up and become Rush Limbaugh. This term was widely used in the 60's and 70's and I think it is worthy of use today. Somewhere along the line people forgot why the U.S. has always been the coolest country. I'm talking about American Grafitti and our culture that cared about what other people thought of them. I don't think by the way, that is is fair to put the names Bush and Obama in a sentence together the way you did. I have lots of criticism of Obama, but as long as the manure machine keeps belching out inaccurate information about him, I'm afraid I'll have to be a little defensive on his behalf from time to time. Funny, it was perfectly suitable to bow down to Bush a few years ago, but showing respect and giving a little space to a new President who inherited such a seriously broken country somehow lands a writer in hot water with all kinds of people. I think the United States maybe wasn't ready for a black President. I believe that the right wing will continue their assault and I only know that I will not take it without doing what I can as a journalist to make sure some truth finds its way through the cracks.

Henry Ruark March 9, 2009 10:16 am (Pacific time)

Chris et al: So naturally worldwide economic collapse in no way chargable to "magic of the market" nor to "Greed is good !", nor to corporate malfeasance, criminal actions, perversion of democracy via clearly illegal corporate campaign contributions ??!! Whole damned mess entirely due to fact we did not allow neocons, for thirty years, to go far enough...how much more could they have done given even freer reign than they achieved ? Yours via small-shots here demands full, detailed, and well-documented exposition with names, policies, dates and consequences shown --why NOT put out rather than just peter out via empty, unproven words-here ? Easy to talk, but hard to DO "on the record", with plan, policy, protocol, funding outlays, and all else...so won't hold breath until you do something other than words, published here or elsewhere... Got any such NOW ? Ever DONE anything to produce basic credibility here ? IF SO, link, demonstrate or otherwise NOW produce...ID to Editor for direct contact, on confidential basis if demanded and you can prove it, then we can get on with dialog perhaps more meaningful than cheap shots fired here with no way to provide credibility since obviously avoids realities. Re Gallup poll you cite, will guarantee to get any answers sought by way poll questions are ASKED, much less by way they are WORDED...old, easy tricks in use, with real results hanging on how public understands "redistribution", badly distorted for 30 years by neocon noise machine.

Henry Ruark March 9, 2009 10:12 am (Pacific time)

MichieMich March 9, 2009 10:10 am (Pacific time)

I like that you actually come back and call people on some of the more absurd comments they make. Very satisfying. Having said that, I think you do paint too rosy a picture of actual capital "S" Socialism, but that isn't what Obama is going for anyway, so ok. This country desperately needs money infusions to avoid depression, and the only entity that has or can get money right now is the Government. Hence 'stimulus' must mean 'spending'. I don't feel too sorry for rich people whose mindless games with the markets helped get us in this mess. Tax the cr*p out of them as far as I'm concerned.

Robert March 9, 2009 10:09 am (Pacific time)

I hope that Tim King was a better Marine than economist. Socialism only guarantees that everyone shares poverty equally. Your premise and your article are a disgrace.

Tim King: Gee Robert, you're another example of keyboard bravery. Were you in the Marines? I really doubt you are qualified to even talk about it.

ChrisJones March 9, 2009 9:58 am (Pacific time)

Americans Oppose Income Redistribution to Fix Economy--by Dennis Jacobe, Chief Economist PRINCETON, NJ -- When given a choice about how government should address the numerous economic difficulties facing today's consumer, Americans overwhelmingly -- by 84% to 13% -- prefer that the government focus on improving overall economic conditions and the jobs situation in the United States as opposed to taking steps to distribute wealth more evenly among Americans....cont'd @ http://www.gallup.com/poll/108445/Americans-Oppose-Income-Redistribution-Fix-Economy.aspx

ChrisJones March 9, 2009 9:46 am (Pacific time)

Centrally planned economies can never function remotely close to as efficiently as a free market. And if you wanna help the poor why don't all you lazy bleeding hearts go out and do something about it? No one is trying to stop you from helping the poor and defenseless. Look at me I help people in need and I'm an evil capitalist, imagine what all you poor loving, non-squares could get accomplished. Forced charity is not charity.

ChrisJones March 9, 2009 9:41 am (Pacific time)

Editor: so name one bailout for the rich fat cats (taxpayer robbery) that obama has been against (before or after his presidency). Just one. Add it up, it is trillions.

jpm March 9, 2009 9:09 am (Pacific time)

Mr. King, thanks for your service, but you have a whole in your premise. They are saying he's a socialist, not that he is a member of the Socialist party. He is inching toward govt control of the means of production.(Healthcare, banks, auto, etc) That is socialist.

Not a socailist March 9, 2009 9:06 am (Pacific time)

Get a crack out of this. THis came from Hugo Chavez

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&refer=latin_america&sid=aB6yw1ihGZ2k

Editor: This link is dead and does not work; feel free to try sending it again or send it via email to newsroom@salem-news.com

Not a socialist March 9, 2009 9:05 am (Pacific time)

Wow, reading this article is like geting some education and advocacy from a socialist. No wonder this socialist is defending Obama's socialism. He has a very upbeat look at socialism. it's too bad he never lived in a country that tried to imitate socailism. Dear author, move to vietnam or north korea for about 20 years and come back and tell me how great those nations are that tried socialism. You are truly an idiot that is not experienced and needs some lessons of realities.

Tim King: I love keyboard bravery. Go ahead and lob your insults, it tells your entire little man story. I know without even asking that the things you suggest I do are things you haven't done.

Rich March 9, 2009 9:03 am (Pacific time)

Is there any thing the government runs that is successful? Anytime the government begins to encroach on private business they are implementing policies that are socialistic in nature. I and millions of people like me are seeing the "baby steps" of government intrusion that are socialistic in nature, that is, they are assuming more power over the free market system. There are many personalities out there that some find abrasive and some do not. Interpreting history is easy (and it's not easy) compared to seeing where this current congress and administration are taking us. The more one observes attacks on private citizens, then is this really nothing more than a distraction so the public is not looking at government activities? I say yes, and I believe the savy voter out there spots these distractions very easily.

ChrisJones March 9, 2009 9:01 am (Pacific time)

Another thing: how does giving trillions to their rich buddies who can't run a business "helping poor people"?

Chris, you are a little hard to follow on this one. I certainly didn't suggest that there is a connection between these things. Attribute the trillions to Bush.

ChrisJones March 9, 2009 8:51 am (Pacific time)

Dude good luck selling your socialism. You might have better luck selling brand new gms at full msrp.

ChrisJones March 9, 2009 8:50 am (Pacific time)

The difference between Communism and Socialism is about the same as the skinheads or the kkk.

Editor: Are you smoking crack? I'm not selling anything, just trying to make a little sense out of the irrational lies that are spewing from the lips of the poor-hating prejudice squares in society. Your point doesn't even start to make sense. But the funny thing is that like always, folks like you will make silly statements like this immediately after you just read an article demonstrating that what you say is pure erroneous dribble. Better luck next time dude.

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