Survivor of Russian Immigrant Family Child Abuse Speaks Out

To the people who think my story seems familiar, or think they may know me, you might just be right.

(SALEM, Ore.) - - This letter was submitted by a Salem-News.com reader who has been keeping up on the story of the two Ukrainian immigrant parents who lost custody of their six children recently over abuse allegations. (see our most recent article: (Case of Abused Ukrainian Children Unprecedented - Tim King Salem-News.com). We greatly appreciate being able to publish this for our readers, it is a first-hand account of how tough life can be while growing up in a Russian-American household.

I can tell you the firsthand experience with the abuse I had to suffer as a child. People often wonder why so many Russian children are violent or just plain wild or uncontrollable.

It is merely a cry for help. These kids are raised in an extremely controlled and sheltered environment, raised with obnoxious religious outlooks, and told to act like everything is perfect in public no matter how much shit they are put through. Oh, and did I mention that ANY disobedience means a beating?

When I heard the story about the family who got their kids taken away, I had some pretty severe memory flashbacks, and felt like I needed to share my opinion. Hell, I'm proud of these kids. I wish I could have accomplished what they managed to do back when I was a child. Sure, the 6-day old child being taken away from her mother is sad, but that there's always collateral damage as they say.

My family came to this country when i was eleven. As a child I participated in all the church activities (like I was raised), but as i started getting older I started wondering why my parents were completely different people when they were in church around their "братья и сёстры" (brothers and sisters in Russian) and when they were at home.

In church, they were the "perfect" people who sang and preached, but once we would get home, that would all change, as if taking off a mask. Hell, I'd get hit with a belt even if I talked or fidgeted around in church right after we got home.

Any single mistake or act of insubordination meant you were gonna get hit. I remember dreading the time when my dad would come home from work, because i knew what was gonna happen. I would come home late from school on purpose, hoping that maybe he would forget, but usually that only made things worse, because you'd get hit more for being late.

My fists sill clench up when I remember the extremely angry look in my dads eyes, when he would completely lose it, and simply wouldn't stop hitting you until your mom, or your grandfather stepped in and forced him to stop. All of that does quite a lot to a 12-year old's mentality and development.

What did you think about when you were 12? I wanted to kill my dad, I wanted to rip that belt out of his hands and beat him to a bloody f*&#ng pulp with it. I started exercising and working out with only that thought moving me forward. I endured the beatings with the ever growing desire for revenge.

I tried calling the police, ran away many times over, tried to get attention, so people would see what was happening to me, but nothing ever happened. Its no wonder I started playing computer games constantly, I had to get away from this miserable thing I had to call my reality. Its no wonder why so many of the kids turn to drugs and alcohol.

In case you are wondering if I ever got my wish? Well, sort of. After working out nonstop for several years, I finally put an end to the beatings when I turned 15. I came home late yet one more time, and my dad started hitting me, and I finally got the guts to grab that belt from him.

Wrestling him down to the ground and making him understand that I wasn't gonna put up with that shit anymore ever again was enough for me. I just wanted it to be over, and thankfully it was. If anything, it taught me to be able to stand up for myself, which came in more than useful enough over the years.

As far as these kids, Im glad for them. They got out of the abuse, and hopefully, they will never have to deal with that again.

And to the kids that are suffering right now, call the police, and get out before its too late.

And to the parents, you are NOT straightening out your kids or making them better by hitting them. you are merely making them more violent and angry, and to NOT be surprised when they turn on you. Treat your children with love and care, not keep them in constant fear of a beatdown.

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Child Abuse is different than a span May 19, 2015 5:59 pm (Pacific time)

Wow, Uhhhhh how are kids supposed to know right from wrong if you lovingly tell them not to steal or slap someone?? Plz don't give me the "put them in a corner or lecture them" bs. I think you should meet the group called the Mennonites, who spank, mind the word spank, their kids with a big wooden paddle. These kids are the most obedient down to the core. There is no falseness involved in their obedience. They act obedient because they want to be. Also I know this family and their children in this case from kid camps and they were always expelled from camps because they were so bad, and didn't listen to anyone, they weren't violent, just spoiled. You also don't know these parents, but I do. They were our friends, so don't pretend like you know what the heck is going on.

2013 right? February 11, 2013 5:58 pm (Pacific time)

I think you're a nice guy. You just experienced parenting not based on love. Spanking should only be done with patience. With patience there would not have been rage, which means no beating senselessly. If the parents don't explain why they are beating with a calm or stern (not loud) voice, maybe the task of punishment and understanding could have been understood. It is difficult for many parents to punish this way that is why it can be carried out incorrectly... and excessively. I don't expect a reply, but Please understand your parents, and forgive them for disciplining you incorrectly and understand that no matter what they've done they do love you. God bless you and may he give you strength!

Gulnara July 24, 2012 4:31 pm (Pacific time)

Just logged on today. I read about abuse in boarding schools,and genocide here, from1492 on,and I wonder about something- why do the world's dictators,especially eastern ones,ALL had abusive childhoods? Why do Christians feel compelled to attack their kids? babies also,btw. There are plenty of good,wise humane parents from the USSR who never stoop to such levels! fear,tradition,hate look like the cause here. When we go abroad we should renounce such ways. Be the change you want to see.

Anonymous July 2, 2012 11:18 pm (Pacific time)

@annymos Well, he only wrestled his dad because he was sick of his dad beating the crap out of him...AND YOU ARE APPROVING?!? You should be locked up if so! That makes me sick to even think that people like you are actually against children! Parents who have at least half of the clue can raise their kids without ever resorting to violence. @Vadim: Nope, the parents lost custody of their children except for the baby @Olga (and all other religious fanatics in here): How can you bible-beaters justify beating the kids?! Let alone in the name of God! God is just a particle! Seriously, this is the 21st century...and I bet that you guys did not evolve into this century! I bet you probably beat your own kids yourselves! If you don't like modern parenting (yeah, the parenting in the 21st century), try moving back to Russia or something! If you don't think that what those "parents" did is abuse, then you might want to try talking to your kids and ask them if it's abuse or not.

Victoria March 30, 2012 10:50 am (Pacific time)

From my life experience I can tell that many Russian/Ukrainian christian parents concentrate more on discipline and church rules than on love. If you discipline with love, your child will not see any anger in your eyes. For some children spanking doesn't work. They just need more of their parents attention and love. You need to treat every child with respect. All children have different personalities, so they need different approach for discipline them. Definitely it's not anger, yelling, or beating. You're not going to make good Christians out of your children by forcing them and beating them. You, parents, have to show your children the love of Jesus.

Silence Dogood December 2, 2011 7:52 pm (Pacific time)

I am sickened by the excuses given here for "spanking". I raised 10 children and never had to spank any of them. They are respectful adults now, the oldest is 40 years old in a few months. Spanking is nothing but LAZY parenting, whether you are an "American" or "Russian! Humiliation of a child by any means when done by a parent destroys the child's sense of worth. Brutalization of children, in the name of "discipline" has NOTHING to do with God or religions! Spanking is a form violence, we ALL KNOW THAT. If you can't learn to discipline your children without utilizing violent behavior (spanking or worse) or psychological abuse(verbally)you have no business being a parent, because YOU are acting like a child yourself. I don't care if the letter is a fake or not, either.

olga November 22, 2011 9:35 pm (Pacific time)

This is fake story written by American.

Editor: No Olga, I can tell you for a fact it is true.

me November 19, 2011 10:12 am (Pacific time)

This is fake story. Probably writen by someone from DHS!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous November 19, 2011 5:23 am (Pacific time)

SURVIVOR??? HA HA HA!!!

Olga November 19, 2011 5:22 am (Pacific time)

Who ever wrote the story is a dumbo. If you hated being spanked, why were you making your parents get a belt? Didn't you lived with them for years and understood what is necessary for your parent to be proud of you. But no you went against them. If that was the church where you would run around, and then got spanked at home for that, Why did you not sit and listen some, and not make your parent do that????

Olga November 19, 2011 5:18 am (Pacific time)

Editor, How come there are so many stories that support Kozlov family but none of them gets published, but as soon as you get some freaking American write fake story like this one, it gets publicized????? I get it! You probably want to raise hate toward us. Get a life! Look on a web and see some real child abuse in America, they only come from American’s. You are not family oriented. And, you will teach us? Raising kids in cages for years….Look on line! Pouring hot souse into child’s mouth? Russians don’t do that, but for American’s it’s a way of punishment. Why? It doesn’t leave marks. Or how about this one: Leaving the child in cold? There were many that suffered hyperthermia and died. Those one were cut. There are many, many more! That is horrible, because “yes” it won’t leave marks, but in a long run it can make the person end up with many sicknesses later on in life or be crippled/handicapped. But see, in a long term you can’t rally tell if that is from child hood. Right! And that’s exactly what you want! Right! But if Russian/Ukrainian spank the kid, believe me, it’s never just anywhere. Our parents are very strict about it. It’s only on the butt, never higher, because that’s where the kidneys are. And on the butt chicks gives you good massage! I know when my parents spanked me, they were making them selves do it. It was heart braking for them, I could tell. Now my mom is 70yrs old, and thinks that she didn’t do her job. She said that she did not spank us enough. I agree, because we didn’t had as much respect for them as other families. Same thing with Kozlov kids. If you live if parents home, Obey the rules! Don’t like the rules… GET OUT! Just couple of days ago, I went with girlfriends to a sauna. Well, we spanked each other so good, that next day I felt like a new human being. How come you offer dip tissue massages? Well maybe that is adult abuse too? Because it hearts big time! Did you see the story in China about little 2yr old ran over few times by commercial vehicles and nobody helped? That’s where I would expect serious child abuse. That story kept me awake at nights for way too long. And his is the second story (Kozlov’s) that keeps me awake still. I just feel the pain of those parents. I know that kids from Kozlov’s family can’t contact their relatives at all. They all cry and say that they made up the story, but the damage is done and no way back. Only it wouldn’t heart as much, if I knew that there is another life for them, and they wouldn’t do the same mistake ever again. But……..

michael October 16, 2011 10:51 pm (Pacific time)

where do you see your self in the future your not ganna be needed in a family or in community(a traitor of his own family), you have one choice and it is to pray to jesus christ and ask him for you stupid mistakes and ask him for forgivness and then you will understand your parents love think about it, do you even know whats ganna happen to your parent , dont you have one little piece of love for you parentst (Mother) your mother went through all of that pain giving birth to you and dis is how you repay you bringing you to life and (father)dude get hold of your self he has the right to treat you how he want if it wouldent be for him you wouldent come to life think about it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Editor: Did you even read the story?

Mrs. Croney May 9, 2011 3:14 pm (Pacific time)

I am from the U.S., and it appalls me that people from any country could think that child abuse is OK. Yes, some discipline is necessary, but there is a big difference between spanking a child and beating/abusing them. My parents abused us as children, I DO NOT abuse my own children. Its called stopping the pattern of abuse. To all the ones who think beating a child is OK because your parents did it... educate yourselves and improve the lives of yourself and your family!!! I am sorry for the abuse you had to endure and I hope that you have been able to get the help to stop this abuse from re-occurring with your own children.

UkranianGirlTanya April 15, 2011 12:39 pm (Pacific time)

I have read so many of these comments on here, I'm pretty upset I didn't find this website sooner, my question is, are you even Ukranian/Russian? I am Ukranian, grew up in a Ukranian setting, and my parents kept me strict, and I thank them for it. Yes, abuse is wrong, but spanking with love how someone mentioned I believe is absolutely okay. I do believe you are blowing your story out of proportion, yes maybe you did get abused and I'm sorry for that, but that's why there are relatives and church members. What the judge did to those poor parents is completely wrong. You are blaming parents for disciplining their children but their children aren't getting disciplined for running wild? What kind of judgment is that? Also, what you said about abortions, I was just completely hurt by that, you are okay with killing children but disciplining is not okay? You need to figure out what your own thought is. Spanking is wrong but killing is right? Which is worse?? Don't push out your anger on Ukranians/Russians, and don't try pushing us out of this country either, very few people actually have ancestors who are true Americans, your ancestors are probably from another country too so maybe then you are the one who should be leaving? I also dis-agree with your comment on "Russian children are wild and uncontrollable"? Excuse me, I have a big family and when we all come together, the children even though they are young, do not run around the entire house like wild and uncontrollable animals, they know how they are expected to act. I believe you should not take your anger out on Ukranians/Russians and truely check yourself before turning against someone else. As it is written in Matthew 7:3-5 "3. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4. Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, let me pull out the mote our of thine eye; and behold, a mean is in thine own eye? 5. Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Matthew 7:3-5 .

Anonymous January 28, 2011 6:55 am (Pacific time)

poor kid

Anonymous December 20, 2010 8:03 pm (Pacific time)

Let the poor parents go!!!

Editor: What about the children, where is the sympathy for them?

John 3:16 September 28, 2010 12:38 pm (Pacific time)

To all the christians who posted a comment, please remember what God cherishes above all, LOVE. As a parent of three I discipline my children by spanking, but I always make sure that I do it calmly, with love, explaining to them why I am about the spank them, and telling them that I love them afterward, something the editors father didn't do. It sounds that he did it in anger, which then rubbed off on his son. I am also a child of a Russian immigrant family, and my parents also spanked us, a lot of times in anger. And if they or this horrible event taught me anything at all, is that to make sure that you discipline out of love, and not because "teba deti dastali." And to all those parents who spank their children for cutting their hair, wearing make-up or jeans, please read the Bible more carefully and make sure that that is really what the Bible is teaching you,and not just "chelovechesiy zakoni" that you have heard your parents and your church preach from your early childhood that you are now forcing on your children. I belong to an "otdelonaya" church, like the one Kozlova belonged to, and I hear parents get discouraged with with their children for things that are not even againts the Bible, like plucking eyebrows! and I would really like to encourage parents to teach their children the real lessons of the Bible, like to love, showo mercy, and not judge, instead of teaching your children, that if you wear earings, makeup, or jeans, that you will go to hell because THE BIBLE DOESN'T TEACH THAT, and if you are telling your children that it dose please read Revelations 22:18.

Alex August 21, 2010 6:04 pm (Pacific time)

Editor, when I said I'm expecting a reply, I just wanted to see if you really read everything I wrote. May God bless you in your life and enlighten you with what the path of a true Christian really is.

Alex August 20, 2010 10:11 am (Pacific time)

Hi Everybody, I just wanted to mention a few things about this story and about discipline in general. Editor, I will be straight up with you. Your article is based on opinion, not facts. You blow the whole thing out of proportion, by exaggerating the heck out of everything, (I know that’s your job, but bear with me here). It looks like your story about your father “who takes his mask off when he comes home from church” really influenced your opinion when you wrote this story. When you say there’s “so many Russian children” that are “violent or just plain wild or uncontrollable”, have you ever stopped to think that maybe being abused by your psycho two-faced father, that it is YOU who is the “violent or just plain wild or uncontrollable” one? It sure does look like he left a mark in your life. Ok, back to discipline. I personally believe in strict discipline in a father/son relationship. I am a Christian teen that is very thankful to have a "strict", yet loving, father who did all the right things to teach me the good and the bad in life. I thank him for all those punishments (yes, bruises and extension cords), which seemed unnecessary at the time, but by doing that, he thought me the morals of this life. The good and the bad. I am 100 percent sure that if my father let me run loose and get influenced by this sinful country, I’d probably be on drugs? Maybe an alcoholic? Criminal? It is those who are punished and disciplined that strive to prosper in this world. You can quote me on that one, when you write your next story. I am expecting a reply. Thank you all for reading.

Editor: Whether you expect a reply or not has little to do with anything.

russian May 31, 2010 4:59 pm (Pacific time)

My parents never beat me, but they did spank me with belts and sometimes with phone cords, i used to be mad about it, but now im a grown man, and now i know, if i never got spanked by my parents i would be a drug addicte or an alcoholic, i knew if i would use drugs my parents would spank me HARD on the ass and i didnt try them.. if u think spanking ur children is bad ur a dumb ass, beating ur children yes its wrong but spanking them on the butt now and then helps...

Laura April 15, 2010 5:08 am (Pacific time)

As a survivor myself of horrific child abuse, my heart goes out to the survivor who initiated this blog. One point that needs to be brought out is that in homes with belt beatings and face smackings, the punishment often bears more relation to the parent's mood than to the child's misdeed. In severely abusive homes, real misbehavior is often ignored while an innocent mistake brings a savage beating. Dear Editor and Fellow Survivor, I send my heartfelt thanks to you for your attempts to educate the public. Thank you!

Laura April 15, 2010 5:01 am (Pacific time)

As a survivor myself of horrific child abuse, my heart goes out to the survivor who wrote their story. One point that needs to be brought out is that in homes with belt beatings and face smackings, the punishment often bears more relation to the parent's mood than to the child's misdeed. In severely abusive homes, real misbehavior is often ignored while an innocent mistake brings a savage beating. Dear Editor and Fellow Survivor, I send my heartfelt thanks to you for your attempts to educate the public. Thank you!

Anonymous March 22, 2010 10:41 am (Pacific time)

I just watched the court room video again. Is that really how the judge should act?? Screaming towards the parents? I would fire him!!!!! And how is saying to kids that parents love them, pressuring them?? Thats what the JUDGE IS DOING TO THE PARENTS!! In all my life, I have never seen this kind of rudness from the judges!!! TELLING THEM TO GET OUT OF THE COURT JUST BECAUSE THE MOTHER SAID TO THE KID THAT SHE LOVES HIM?? Thats just not fair! Also you guys should put people in jail who are selling drugs, alchohol, guns!!! They are the ones killing the people! And the parents didnt even do anything exept for hit them, as i waz told NOT WITH WIRES, TREE BRANCHES ETC.!!! If the parents already said that they love them dearly why do you still want the kids!!!! Look at the kids who are in school saying that they dont want 2 live with their stepmothers, why dont you guys take those to?? or do you guys just hate Ukrainians?? in all the court rooms that I saw, judges NEVER were screaming their heads off of the parents!!!

richard daniel March 8, 2010 8:21 pm (Pacific time)

dude ...familys are supposed to TOGETHER... not apart ... read bible ull find out...

Love is the answer. March 1, 2010 9:36 am (Pacific time)

Yes your story is very well written, as many people decided to include in their comments, it is well written-gramatically. Not the idea behind it. I think some of the people's minds are just absurd in the way they think about our society. First of all, i'm sure most people are against, and completely AGAINSt violence. I have personally seen a degree of violence myself done to people around me. What i am trying to say is that there are certain stages or degrees of violence and beating or as we call it nakazania. Theres the beating to where one cannot take it anymore and reaches for the phone to call 9-1-1 and there is also that in which when one grows up he/she thank their parents for the punishment. Personally, i love my parents so much that if they do punish me, I would try and find 'obshi yazik' with them (I guess that is defined as try and find the same ground) and work it out and LEARN from my mistakes. But that is right now, because I am already almost 18 and I have matured and bacame certain of my parents' uncondittional love towards me and my siblings, that is the reason behind the punishment-love. Of course I cannot relate to some Russian or Ukrainian families that beat their kids so vioently that it's just, I dont even know, immoral? inhumane? The bible teaches us to love one another and to go out of our way to do something kind or nice to another person. Also the bible says whomever you love, punish them. I'm not sure how it goes in english but in russian it sounds something like this: 'kogo lubit togo nakazivaet' God punishes us all the time, ONLY because he loves us and wants us to learn from our mistakes NOT rebel against Him or other punishers. Why dont we ever rebel against God? Because we believe that he is just and merciful. correct? or is it because we cannot rebel against something that is unseen and something that many people dont even believe in. But humans aren't perfect, we're not Gods and we are not always just and merciful, however, we are led by God. And God helps us out in what we do.. for those who believe in him of course. I am not in any way, shape, or form, promoting abuse, however, somebody has to set these kids straight. And also, it isn't just the Russian/Ukrainian families that abuse their kids. Many other cultures do it to, and perhaps even more severe. One more thing, editor, these comments are becoming racial commentaries. And i think you've started it with the whole 'russian culture'. Just a note to the kids: obey your mother and your father, God gave you guys certain parents for a reason, dnt call them out. Love them, and if they beat you, dnt rebel against them, instead let your love radiate so much that they will be in awe and perhaps it will hit them (not literallly, since the topic is about hitting and abuse) that they are not correct. And to parents, i understand i'm a minor and have very little or no authority to teach you guys but, just one advice that i'm sure many people will agree with: love your kids and nakazivaite (punish) with love, with a purpose. And read the bible more, it brings you closer to your Maker and it will change you. :) And to both of you, PRAY. PRAY PRAY PRAY PRAY. i cannot emphasize enough about it. Prayer works, it heals, and it steadies us to keep going. To the kids that are severely unjustly abused, dnt call 9-1-1 and GET OUT of the 'abusion' instead pray more and obey your parents and LOVE THEM. i understand it is one of the hardest things to do in this world of hate, but please do it for the One who Saved you. Also, i tend to have run-on sentences AND paragraphs. sorry, OBEY. i think i've said it many times and so did other commentors. dnt come home from school late, be kind to those that hurt u, listen to them and LOVE them (there it is again, love.) easier said than done huh? well good luck! God Bless you all. Lets see: Pray Obey Love and REad the word.

Eyta February 21, 2010 2:17 pm (Pacific time)

I am an RN,I am not for children abuse. But this is obvious something wrong with this all scenario: children are scaterred and parents are in jail! When I started nursing practice in USA in 1994, there was a very harsh, primitive aproach treating pshichiatric patients: using all kinds of restrains and drugging them was considered normal, but people were raising their voices against such inhumane practice. I hope, that dealing with family problems in their transition from one culture and language to another should change also. The way parents delt with their children is not considered criminal in other countries. Untill resently England schools were using physical punishment for disciplinning children. The gun shut approach dealing with families is wrong. The family is dead, destroyed, the gun doesn't feel nothing, no pain, no compasion. The children are crying, suffering trauma from separation, segregation, psychological abuse. It is not true, that parents beated children senslessly. Did they beat them for the sake of beating? The question is, if any bright minds intervene assessing parents and children's motives. Where the family provided counselling, information and understanding about better ways of parenting? Was the family given a time or another chanse to change their ways? Was a super nany send to their family? The super nany could change the family's anarchy in a weak to beautiful order and harmony! When one comes to see a doctor with some infection on any extremity, we exhaust all means to treat it, not to amputate it from the first visit. Very sad, that our society has poore insight and judgement to better crosscultural family problems solving!

Lena February 17, 2010 2:27 pm (Pacific time)

The editor seems to run out of patience himself telling the Russian people to go back to their country. Yes we came to country of FREE, FREEDOM,yet no one introduced us with the laws of this country. It was great to get financial assisstance while we established ourselfs here, but it was lack of information and education of a legal system. What absolutelly normal in one society, now is wrong in another. Russian pepple were blinded, put on aircraft, and accepted to USA,what a GREAT WAY to welcome imigrants, they were subject to harsh juditical system. One fourth of the worlds inmates is in USA with a population just 300,000.Eventually thos children will end up in this system, foster care in this country is very poor. Without family values children will be set for failure.It is the bigest mental abuse to children to rip them off their parents.

Editor: Beating children senseless is wrong, standing up for horrible people who do it is even more wrong. Everyone will eventually meet their maker, and I think God will know everything, so simply learn that children should not be abused. I would tell anyone the same thing, it isn't unique to Russians.

clear February 16, 2010 8:17 pm (Pacific time)

I grew up in Lithuanian family of 5, my parents rarely punishet us, but not enough. LIthuanians have a saying "One beaten/punished worth as much as 10 unbeaten." When we came to USA in 1991 there were sign "Child abuse hotline 800 number" on every Safeway, cubfoods , and any other stoores shoppingcart. Whenever we raised voice or warned kids of consequences, they thretened us with calling child abuse hotline. But there were no signs on any shopping cart, that undisciplined children turnes to be rebelious, ignorant, unpolite, undisciplined, school dropouts, prostitutes, the list can go on and on, There was no sign anywhere warning of that police puts hancuffs on our children in a blink and than make parents responsible to pay huge court fines... That is a system that is set up to trap our children. The editors subjective opinion is that convicted for chils abuse are already guilty, or another: "don't see anything Godly in being accused of abusing your kids", I think it is not Godly or lawful to accuse of abuse kids without prooven intent. To proove somebody guilty, court should proove that parents punished kids with malitious intent, with intent to harm them, inflict injuries, abuse. They should be doing it knowingly to harm them. The parents, probably, themselves were raised the same way, they were punished all the time, so they didn't know any other way how to raise kids. Instead to jail them and totally destroy family(which is wery cruel not just to parents, but to children also) The society should teach and counsel all family members how to live together. If someone has a headache - solution is simple - just cut a head off. It does not solve the problem. This should be corrected in a moore humane, family-oriented way, family shoulb be reunited, all brothers and sisters shoud live in their family, they should not be ripped off apart because their parents didin't know better way to discipline their kids.To scater family appart is even moore cruel, abusive, heartless, vicious and violation of human rights, first of all childrens. That is not a solution to tear, split, shred children, inflicting on all of them unimaginabe pain. In totalitarian USSR, family was a sacred unit, segregation of chidren and parents was unheard of.

anonym February 9, 2010 7:24 am (Pacific time)

thank god the children had taken away i suffered so many years cause my parents were beating me and i didn't dare to call the police there are human rights and nobody!! should breach this laws most of the parents who beat their children do this only cause they are so helpless and had not learned to control their aggression this is my experience and i hope this will be a warning to all the other parents who abuse and misstreat their children under the subterfuge that this is an christian way of life this is a very big lie!!! the old testament is past we don't live under these laws jesus said you fullfill the laws if you love your people and this is no way to love its a way to abuse and misstreat cause they are too addle to learn social and emotional intelligence

Anonymous February 9, 2010 7:10 am (Pacific time)

Hey editor, YOU DO NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DISCIPLINE AND CHILD ABUSE. THAT'S ALL!!!

EDITOR: Have you ever heard of a Freudian slip? You just made one.

anonymous February 1, 2010 9:32 am (Pacific time)

i think it just absurd what editor wrote. First, we cant take sides when we dont really know what happened.Lets not "spletnichat". If you have nothing to do editor just "shot up". if you want to write about something you better research first and find a truth.Its very bad to write something bad about your own people because you are included.

Yana January 28, 2010 1:50 pm (Pacific time)

I cant belive this how can you say such thing! I was born and raised it a Ukraine family and I love my family, my parents never beat any of us. I cant belive you could say crap like this about your own people you should be ashamned of your self, my did is a preacher and he acts same church and home. This is just an crap I would be embaressed if I was you.And those kids will be regreting what they did, they will realize that they need there parents. I love my parents and my parents never beat us of abuse us and stop talking smack about your own culture.

Editor: So, another person who is pro-child abuse? That's just great. Listen, if you are unable to comprehend CHILD ABUSE then you are challenged to only deal with your own ignorance, but you are making a public comment. I am sick of people who want to see little kids hurt by monstrous parents. You should not be here, you are in the wrong country, you need to move back to where these things are accepted. God must be raging with anger toward you and your obvious inability to know right from wrong, seems hopeless really.

sl January 25, 2010 4:36 pm (Pacific time)

Editor: You will write in English if you want your comment posted.

Stepan January 22, 2010 5:10 pm (Pacific time)

I'd like to thank the writer of this article for coming forward. It is important to recognize that abuse is a real problem, and to focus our efforts on identifying and preventing it effectively. Two points: 1. In response to certain previous commenters: while cultural differences may have something to do with this, I know of many Russian and Ukrainian families in the area who would never commmit such violence on their children. 2. Individual biblical verses are no justification for cruelty. I would be horrified to think that anyone today would feel morally justified to follow literally this passage from Deuteronomy: "18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." "18Если у кого будет сын буйный и непокорный, неповинующийся голосу отца своего и голосу матери своей, и они наказывали его, но он не слушает их, -- 19то отец его и мать его пусть возьмут его и приведут его к старейшинам города своего и к воротам своего местопребывания 20и скажут старейшинам города своего: 'сей сын наш буен и непокорен, не слушает слов наших, мот и пьяница'; 21тогда все жители города его пусть побьют его камнями до смерти; и [так] истреби зло из среды себя." If you find inspiration in the bible, I would hope that you would follow the more general injunctions of mercy and lovingkindness that are far more characteristic of the message of Christ. I urge the leaders of Russian churches to help educate their congregations about child abuse, and the public to not take the example of one or two families to indict a whole community.

vik January 13, 2010 1:21 pm (Pacific time)

okey this whole page is it about you?or is it bout those kids??!!! well they are idiots wrong approach to their parents,theres different ways but not sending your parents to prison for 7 years,i got beat to like no other but it made me a better person, cause i accepted my punishment,and i got beat hard core me and my brother,i hated my parents while they beated me but after hours passed the anger would leave and i would be scared to do whatever i did to get the punishment. "abuse" it dont happend in christian familys unless there mentall anger or use of substance... abuse is when some crazy (none normal)when drugs or alcohol is used or abused is when its too much, u do what a normal newborn baby wouldnt do. the dad never hit the kids seondable if he did they deserve it.and the older kids are dumb i went to church with them .they got beat like this not always just sometimes like this last time when they got tattoos and painted their hair or something thats just something you dont do in a christian soviet family ur just asking to get ur ass beat by ur parents.and they got what they wanted even more their parents are in jail . and they are selfish bastards cause they knew they had lil brothers and sisters and a newborn from this point their life will be different now they gonna be send to foster homes or where ever they send em and some gay homos gonna adopt them or someother people that just dont give a damn about them. rough life R.I.P lil kids souls

Alla January 3, 2010 8:18 am (Pacific time)

I was too born in Russian and was brought here to America when I was 11. I was abused by by father daily (In the name of the Lord). One of my brother's continues to have severe back problems due to these beatings. We hated when he came home and tried damnest to stay away from him. Oh, he went to church, he preached, he sang in a church group and he was a Sunday school director. When he got home, he had became someone else. He didn't smoke, drink or swear, but boy was he an angry man. One of my most fondest memories was my baptism. My dad was screaming and yelling at us, threatening us in the car to the lake, but had a complete transformation once we reached out destination. He even helped perform the service!! My youngest brother was beaten the most. He completely shut down, started drinking and doing drugs. He himself is a very angry man now and consistantly hits his wife. I am thankful that my husband(Russian himself) had never abused me (menatally or physically) nor my kids. My dad has repented feverishly through out the years trying to correct what he has done to his family - and we had FORGAVE!! But never FORGOT. It's impossible....

nadia December 30, 2009 11:52 am (Pacific time)

okay is that there child can i please have the number of the court that jugde them in salem

kostik December 30, 2009 1:08 am (Pacific time)

Ne bey menya! ne bey menya! slaaaap.... anyone ever say those words?

nick December 29, 2009 7:16 pm (Pacific time)

Marijuana,drugs,weapon,abortion,kids have rights,but parents have privileges,if mister judge from Salem was into shoes of Kozlovs family he probably think differently.Stop please blind mother justice of usa go to wrong direction,gave gays and lesbians more rights then for a christians family in usa.

VM December 28, 2009 10:23 am (Pacific time)

To editor -- thank you for staying balanced and fair. Excellent article. I am Ukrainian. I would not ever imagine supporting child abusers. A lot of people take this case as an attack against their families or themselves. This is absurd. What is real evil, in my opinion, is closing your eyes on suffering and blindly supporting the abusers. People who do that look like clowns and hypocrites. Another thing that we, as a Slavic community, often fail to notice is a number of mentally disturbed people among us. Those are the people who abuse their children and often abuse us by disturbing the peace in our churches. And we close our eyes and pretend that everything is fine. Please note: I am not saying it happens all the time and everywhere but I have seen it often enough to know that there is a problem. Instead of trying to fix the problem it seems that many place the blame on the victim. That's disgusting and completely unchristian.

123 December 24, 2009 11:46 am (Pacific time)

Very well written. Thank you for your input and speaking out. Maybe you will make a difference. I can say that I experienced a little taste of what this is like but in no way was I horribly abused, but there are times when my parents crossed the line. But I am a good man now and I am certain it was because of they way they brought me up and the lessons they taught me. Spare the rod, spoil the child. Perhaps some people take this saying too far and too seriously. It doesn't mean beat your child, it means punish them when they get out of line and make them understand what they did was wrong, or you will deal with a child who will always misbehave and not respect you or anyone else. And when I say punish, I mean in a socially acceptable manner. I also really like how the writer included the part about how his parents 'wore the mask to church.' It seems to me that religious 'followers' can often times be hypocritical, and I am not just blowing smoke, I have witnessed it

Uri December 22, 2009 7:13 am (Pacific time)

Couldn't pass by this "Afghans rebelled against USSR".. Well they are rebelling against USA at the moment.. what gives you the right to stay there?

Anonymous December 22, 2009 3:00 am (Pacific time)

Editor, sorry if something isn't the way you like. I do not know what really happened in this family, God knows. I am not for beating, beating, and again beating. I am not, who is it's their problem. I hope to never have to deal this way with my kids. I never had yet, but I am doing EVERYTHING POSSIBLE that can help me not to have a belt beating experience ever. But if the kid is on a verge life changing mistake, I might probably opt to grant 2 or 3 "belts' at the most, If the kid won't understand with that, I believe the following beating is not going to awake him anyway. I understand the 2,3 "belts" as an extreme measure to show him that I am concerned so much for him that lets say so any sleep isn't coming to my eyes. and it's only if i see that there would totally be no help from the system to help my kid open his eyes on something he might really need to, so he won't get get hurt by bad choices. Parents abusing their kids badly this is happening among born here americans even more then in Russian community. Why I say so? because there is too high of a number of kids plain killed in American families. From this you can guess something is really wrong in there. I don't want to hear about beating nonstop in any family, this plain is not right! This is not disciplining, not at all. My kids I thank god for that, if i sit down with them and talk from open heart, looking directly in the eye, and most importantly showing them openly that I am so concerned for them, so worried, explaining how it is in life. That so many times something that seems to be the right choice or path would ultimately hurt later on in life. And you know they see that I love them, they see that I am truly concerned and worried for them, that me spending this time to explain the things to them means so much because it is all for them. They see that i ultimately have these talks to benefit not me but them, and they pay me back with understanding, and obeying without anything loud. I remember my dad when he wanted to punish me... that was because I my self stole money something equal to about 15 dollars to buy a toy pistol for me. Today as a christian, i think a boy playing with toy pistol is absolutely wrong thing. Childhood is not a good time to start holding this type of item, even if it is a toy. Our family was not Christian at that time, we were just like everybody else. That time dad did not punish me I simply ran away and he later opted to lots of talks. After my parents made a decision to become churchgoers in a baptist church, I can recollect my dad trying even much harder to work with me. he would explain to me that punishments with like "belt" are for someone who probably is not very smart, and that it is a poor method to build relation between a son and and dad. he would explain me that I can explain him, what moved me to make my "mistake' and he would try to understand that, and try to find the right advise for that. So my state of making mistakes becomes none existent for me. he meant knowing more about managing things in life helps make less incorrect moves. I was occasionally punished, but that was only when i would start to completely ignore everything sane. I will tell you those few disciplinnings with "belt" helped me so much that today it feels, be my dad a bit more tough with me I would become a better person. I have even told him that, looking him straight in the eye! I believe if a child is an extremely hard one, and you spare him reasonable punishment throughout the whole process of him becoming a person, this is a crime you commit against him. Founding father were pro punishment. But do you know that in some states police were told on their classes that the first terrorists in the USA were the... Founding fathers?! No don't smirk, this is true... Sorry for this intrusion but if you are on a job, then you have to hold it as a job. I would really like to ask, are you married? if so are you still with your first wife? Please don't get mad! Simply if not , you are not qualified to make any of the comments... I do not mean any offense, you might take it wrong, but these are the real things you need to look eye to eye in to. If you are a truly wise man, you WILL not get mad, pissed off or whatever. Will not blame for such questions, will not name them tasteless, or else. remember we do not like to hear what we do not like. but at least you can show that you are friendly, and have the decency. I hope you are a man who can point at him self with honor. the honor in this case is not derived from missions to Iraq or Afghanistan... another thing to see who you might be serving is, you might need to see this whole video at youtube.com correct link below http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU If there is any bit of truth in your soul, you will post this whole my comment, will not cut anything. So I wonder who you are by seeing that. i give you your reasonable honor if you will appear true person. Thank you.

Alina December 18, 2009 8:27 am (Pacific time)

Wow, all these opinions are un real; i sure damn well know that when i got spanked with a belt i knew not to do what i did agian, and the author to this, maybe if you can home on time and obeyed your parents you wouldn't have been beaten!!

Vladimir L. December 16, 2009 10:28 pm (Pacific time)

Dear Editor and everyone els, please read a book called THE NEW DARE TO DISCIPLINE by James Dobson who very known as christian writer in 1970, unless America has changed so much in present days that old school in good any more. I am worried for this country at this point, perhaps there God will punish this country and people living in it for stepping away so far from God, becoming non Christian society... my point is KILLING UNBORN BABIES IS OK, DISCIPLINING KIDS SO THEY WANT GO WILD NOT OK. I am confused...

Editor: Women in this country are free to choose if they have an abortion, I know freedom is probably a new concept for you, but it has always meant the same thing, that people have the ability to make choices. Beating and abusing children is cruel and inhumane, something almost all people would not do. Finally, stay on the topic if you comment here please, and note that this conversation is about the parents and the children in this unfortunate situation, not abortion.

Alisa December 16, 2009 6:22 pm (Pacific time)

What I don't understand is the fairness of judicial system in this country. Do you remember the Rebecca Long story? Her step-daughter was starved for several years by her, to the point where all her teeth fell out, she was only allowed half of cup of water per day. She was to be locked up during the night so she can't sneak out to drink water out of the toilet. This I call abuse. Her sentence? 3.5 years. Now, I don't know for sure what happened in this case. But it seems like the sentence for beating a child for "cutting her hair" (which is one of the worst things I've heard so far, and most likely happened once) is a little excessive when compared to other cases. Could it be ethnical discrimination?...

Natalie December 16, 2009 1:22 pm (Pacific time)

Those are the enemies within, as a grouchy uncle Michael Savage would say.

Natalie December 16, 2009 12:57 pm (Pacific time)

Somehow 2 topics are twisted here. After all, I couldn't stay away. History repeats itself. When Soviet soldiers were in Afghan, Americans supported Afghan people fighting against them. Now Americans are there and Russians support Afghan people fighting against Americans. That's politics. I say more-neither country is able to win the war there. Afghan people have a lot of pride, and they will fight to the last infant in their tribe. Another thing: I'm an idealist, and agains any war anywhere. There's enough land for everybody. Share resources and experience, and raise your kids for the Peace. Yeah, I dare to dream. But,when the country decides to send troops to war, don't disgrace your sons by burning American Flag, and say that those soldiers were not men enough, and were forced into the military. I, personally, wouldn't dare to do that to my son. Suicide among troops is on the rise even without such parents.

Anya December 15, 2009 9:40 pm (Pacific time)

There is something everyone needs to understand..disciplining your children is not just part of the christian religion, its also like a cultural thing..most of the parents in ukraine/russia religious or not beat their children in order to discipline them..

Sofia December 15, 2009 2:24 pm (Pacific time)

Just to be clear... Growing up in a Christian Russian/American family does not mean that you will be beat. I would know; I grew up in one and live in a big community of Russian/Americans. And just to be clear, no Russian/American I know thinks it's okay to beat their kids.

GrewUpHere86 December 15, 2009 12:36 pm (Pacific time)

I don't understand the lash out towards the editor. People, have no compassion? The Soviet culture teaches that it is alright to do with your child/ren as you see fit. However, that doesn't mean that parents acting out their anger will produce outstanding members of society by beating them. I was spanked, my husband was spanked, and we love our parents because we were disciplined, abused. There is a difference between spanking and beating. I was never afraid of my parents. That is the difference. If this couple had not developed a means of communication with their teens by this time, then beating them with any object that you find around the house is not going to produce obedience and respect. I do have sadness for the situation in general, however, but beating is not disciplining.

Mark December 15, 2009 11:41 am (Pacific time)

aha... so you think all Russians should pay for what the Communists did to Afgan people? You think in some small way you are punishing the Russian immigrants for that War? Well STOP!!! These Russian/Ukrainian immigrants have been jailed by the same communists for NOT going to war, persecuted for being Christian, by the same soldiers. Editor - you are revieling your ignorance of the population you are writting about! STOP, do your homework, then write (you are actually very good at writting--grammar/syntax wise).

Editor: Mark, I in no way think that Russian and Ukrainian people should have to pay for the acts of those soldiers during the war in Afghanistan, but I wanted to say that I know this side of the culture, that's all. I admit that I am partly ignorant about this, I have not been to the Ukraine or Russia to see for myself. Believe me that if we weren't talking about this tragic case, that we would probably be having an interesting and pleasant conversation. The sad yet fascinating part of all of this is that the Afghans rebelled against the Soviet Union to also have religious freedom, just like the millions of Christians you mentioned in Russia and Ukraine. Trust me Mark, I am very interested in your culture, your home country, and all of the history in between. Thanks for your comment.

Hey Editor.... December 15, 2009 11:37 am (Pacific time)

Are any of these posts changing your mind??? Are you even listening? You Freud brain-washed, psychiatry worshipper. The Bible is CORRECT when it says to love and "turn the other cheeck" (That does NOT apply to father/son relationship!). The BIBLE is also CORRECT when it says that Jesus, yes JESUS made a whip! and drove the money exchangers and others from the temple. There is a time to love/hug/kiss, there is a time to discipline! These kids that are now in Foster Care, do you think those parents LOVE them enough to punish them?

Editor: Jesus didn't want merchants selling their goods in a house of worship, so he got angry and threw them out, it is the same display of anger any good person would use on child beaters. You can defend the criminal, immoral cruel behavior of this couple until you are blue in the face and it doesn't change anything at all. Discipline and cruelty are not even cousins, discipline doesn't take hurting people, hands are not for hurting people, and yes, I think a lot of Sigmond Freud..

Alivi December 15, 2009 12:40 am (Pacific time)

My husband is Ukranian. He is so thankfull to his dad for all those lessons and spankings that he received when he was a child. He tell me if his dad did not discipline him he doesn't know who would he grew up. He tell me that he was lucky to have strict parents.

anonymous December 14, 2009 10:24 pm (Pacific time)

How can you be so PREJUDICED? you can't judge a culture just by the acts of a small group. I myself know many Ukrainians, and they act normal. Mexicans, Italians, Americans, Germans can all act this way too. I know a Mexican father that disciplines his children with a rod, but at the same time teaches them patience, and obedience. They are a very nice family, and I'm not saying that from a distance. I know them well. Don't judge them, they can judge you too, and I'm sure it wouldn't be pretty.

Mark December 14, 2009 7:24 pm (Pacific time)

'Editor'. I don't mean to be 'cold hearted'. You are right, it took some...thing to write about your father the way the "survivor" wrote. I just would like to know whether or not he/she regrets it now? It seems like the father was NOT a drunk who came over the beat him senseless. He was probably just a family man who moved to a country where children advance much faster than adults. He was probably scared to see the changes in his kids. He probably did the only thing he knew - physically punish a disobedient child. And then go to work to provide for the child (as best as he knew how), stayed up night praying for the child and did his best being a parent. "Survivor" - I knew plenty of people like you. Most of them (the ones that stayed in church) say that if they weren't punished, they would end up much worse. Its the ones that left the church, followed their "friends", GOT into alcohol/drugs -- they are the ones that talk about their parents the way you do. Tell me I am wrong…

Yelena December 14, 2009 3:50 pm (Pacific time)

I am sorry this happened to you, but you shouldn't put a label on the Slavic population as a whole. It's individual families. There is more child abuse among Americans, but seems like isolated cases of abuse among Slavic people makes the news. There is also a difference between abuse and discipline. Seems like one can be easily mistaken for the other and children taken away from good families into the hands of less caring foster parents. These kids might regret going into the foster system, just look up the stats.

mark December 14, 2009 3:34 pm (Pacific time)

That's a very clever response to my post 'editor' . I agree with subsequent post - u don't understand the Russian/Ukrainian refuge mind and should still to writing about what u know about. The parents of 7. Did not, DID NOT deserve 7. Years in prison. State of Oregon made a huge mistake separating kids from parents that loved then enough to punish them. What a disgrace! Almost as bad as allowing 'The Editor to spit this kind of propaganda.

Editor: Mark, you obviously have no ability to recognize how you sound, nobody cares about your cold hearted thoughts, I appreciate the fact that someone was brave enough to write this. Your kind of insulting approach takes no courage, only ignorance.

to the Editor December 14, 2009 3:23 pm (Pacific time)

Afghanistan? Russian rapists? That is the danger of someone who thinks he knows something but is actually ignorant. Only a imbecile 'editor' stuck writing on-line can compare this Russian/UkrainiAn family to the Russians who fought in Afghanistan. In fact this family ran away from Russia and the likes of Afghanistan fighters to be in America and raise their children here. To compare those two things is insulting to your profession. Further, if u r a Christian, how do u understand the Bible verse of god punishes those that he loves?

Editor: You asked me, or somebody asked me, what I know. I talked to a lot of Afghans about the way they were treated during the Soviet invasion while I was covering the current war there, and they are so full of hatred toward the Russians that you can hardly describe it. The cruelty administered to the Afghan people and the environment is insurmountable, and you are going to tell me what? That there are no parallels in terms of a cultural view on cruelty? In all of my life in the United States, 46 years so far, I have never seen any community go to bat for child abusers.

As for my take on the Bible, the Second Testament is very clear that Jesus was sent here to forgive us for our sins, and to tell us that even if an enemy slaps us, that we should turn the other cheek, ever read that part? There is nothing in the Bible about abusing little kids, there is a lot about peace, which does not equate with violence.

To the Editor December 14, 2009 11:42 am (Pacific time)

First, thanx for actually replying to some of the posts. Second... a couple of questions.
1. How many Russian/Ukrainians do you know?
2. Do you have any kids?
3. Do you have any religion?

If you answers are few/no/no. Then I think you are uniquely NOT qualified to understand most of the comments written here. Do NOT compare drug/EtOH induced rage that hurts children (probably what you have been covering for you 20years of "news") to spanking that Christian parents do.

Also... PLEASE, PLEASE stop asking "what does religion have to be with this." Only in America do people separate church and state, church and home, church and work, church and everything. Religion is your LIFE. If you are truly religious it will be your life. Your work-life, family-life, politics-life, everyday-life.

Editor: I know plenty of Russian/Ukrainian people, some good some bad. I have seen the ruins of Russia's war in Afghanistan and I have seen the permanent damage that the rapist Russian soldiers brought that place. I have five kids, they are are doing very well, and finally, I am a Christian, but I actually follow the teachings of the Christ, who was non-violent, like these parents should have been. I think your thought patterns are permanently compromised. Sorry if you had to grow up with the same treatment. At any rate, this was clearly a case of violent abuse and you can talk until you are blue in the face and it will make no difference, and it will buy no freedom for this couple. You need to know that right or wrong, you are in the USA and you should have the basic respect that comes with that. The only people I mind being here in terms of immigrants, are child abusers and those who think they should move here and implement their barbaric interpretations of religion.

Mark December 14, 2009 11:29 am (Pacific time)

Wow. Wow. That is the first thought that comes to me. Why is there a face of a child with swollen lip that goes along with this article??? Hey "Editor" did you include that??? Also ... what's with the bad words? The person who wrote the letter... Are those also a consequence of your beatings? Hey "Survivor" (as you call yourself) what are you doing now? Made anything good of yourself? Oh wait.... is that also your father's fault?

Editor: Mark, were you always such an ass?

juls December 13, 2009 8:10 pm (Pacific time)

To the Gentleman that wrote this letter. God bless for writing your story. I feel so bad for you...I am a mother of a 13 yr. old boy and I had to call CPS on his father a few years ago for beating him with the belt and leaving marks. I called because he had bruises and to me that is abuse. You are absolutely correct. Hitting a child ONLY causes them to be more angry and violent. I'm sorry but all the Russian/Ukrainian people on here are extremely IGNORANT and UNEDUCATED. Hopefully someday, their children that they are beating day in and day out come at them and give them a dose of their own medicine and beat the s#*t out of them! They deserve a GOOD SPANKING!

Petro December 13, 2009 6:26 pm (Pacific time)

You ARE NOT DISCIPLINED! If you ARE ukrainian you'll be able to understand what this means: Malo tobi batko davav!!!!

OLGA December 12, 2009 12:15 am (Pacific time)

wow everyone is talking about abuse??? GOT ON THE FOLLOWING SITE AND READ ABOUT HOW MANY RUSSIAN CHILDREN ADOPTED BY AMERICAN PARENTS WERE KILLED, NOT JUST ABUSED, AND ALSO READ WHAT THEIR SENTENCING WAS. SICK, TWISTED AND PAINFULLY SAD! HERE IS THE SITE http://adoption.about.com/od/adoptionrights/p/russiancases.htm

Valentina December 11, 2009 6:19 pm (Pacific time)

Editor, why not post my comment? I asked for someone to pay me and I will give them a better letter. It will actually make you cry. This one didn't even make me feel sad. Mission not accomplished...

Anonymous December 11, 2009 9:09 am (Pacific time)

Wow, people are you serious?? How can you judge a whole community by one or two people…get real! As this one Russian saying says: “В семье не без урода.” No one is perfect! Why is everyone judging and saying that all of the Russian/Ukrainian Christian people are brutal and beat their children. That is not true. Do American parents never hit/beat their children? Yes, they do! But, no one ever makes a big deal out of it…why is that? Simply, because it makes it more interesting when it’s a Russian or a Ukrainian family that this is happening to. I do not agree with beating your children to try to set them on the “right path in life”. My parents never beat me and I turned out just fine! I love my parents with all my heart and would never dare to say anything negative about them. Yet, I’m not saying they are the most perfect parents, because that would be a lie. There is no such thing as perfect parents. However they are the best parents for me in my eyes. No matter who your parents are God gave them to you as your parents and you have to obey/love/respect them. But, also the parents have to ask God for wisdom on how to raise their children right. And they have to be right with God them selves. If their own hearts are not 100% after God then how in the world can they expect their children to love God. It is very wrong when people try to use the Bible and God to justify the fact that beating/hitting your children is okay. It makes me sad…. God is LOVE and I don’t see how hitting/beating/abusing fits in there. If God really thought that parents need to beat their kids to try and make them better people it would be not the God I love/believe in. Imagine how harshly God would be punishing us whenever we would make a mistake. What if God would hit/beat you and do all these horrible things to you and your life; then simply say, “I am making you a better person.” What kind of a loving God/Father would He be? I believe in discipline and punishment if a child did something wrong. There is a lot of different ways to discipline/punish your child rather then beating/abusing them. Now, I do not know these people that all this is happening to. But, I do feel very sorry for them! I am not about to start judging them and saying how horrible of a people they are. I’ll let God do His job(judge people). I just pray to God that He would make all things better for them. Everything happens for a reason. Isaiah 55:8 “ For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” says the LORD. We do not know His ways and a lot of the times they don’t make any sense to us. And we say God why? Why are you doing this to me/us?! We think that God doesn’t care or doesn’t hear us. But, who are we to question Him? He is God and made all things seen and unseen. Ask that He would give you faith. Hebrews 11:1 “Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see.” God will never leave or forsake His people. God bless those children and their parents and reveal Your love and mercy in to their lives.

Myrza December 10, 2009 10:06 pm (Pacific time)

Whoever wrote that letter has no respect for his parents. He has no respect for God. The Bible teaches to listen and obey your perents. The person who wrote that letter did a very low thing by hitting his dad. If he did that to his dad, his kids will do the same thing to him. We must pray for this family and those poor kids now they are with out there perents. Are God is stronger then that judge who put that family in jail. Are God is stronger then those people at DHS.

Editor: The nonsense goes on and on, you are so sad to me, God has your number, God does not condone or approve of vicious, wild oppressive child abuse. It is clear by your email and so many others that the problems in this community are very, very out of control. Again, the letter was written to help being a level of understanding.

UA-person December 10, 2009 5:19 pm (Pacific time)

THIS IS ONE PERSON THAT WROTE THIS LETTER IS BASICLY KNOWS SURELY NOTHING ABOUT THE FAMILY>>>AND OBVIOUSLY NOBODY SHOULD BELIEVE THIS LETTER NOT FOR A PENNY!!! I CANT BELIEVE IT WAS EVEN POSTED!!! IT HAS TO BE TAKEN AWAY!!! A>S>P

Editor: So you allege that these well established facts are not true? What on earth do you believe happened in the years leading up to 1991?

jjjkkk December 10, 2009 5:22 pm (Pacific time)

such a BAD LETTER!!! and so NOT TRUE!!! wow has who ever wrote this is so not russian or ukranian because a TRUE russian or Ukranian would never SAY THIS nonsense!!!

Editor: Wow, I think it is safe to say that there is no reaching some of you. You should recognize an effort made on behalf of your community.

Devchenka84 December 10, 2009 5:15 pm (Pacific time)

who ever wrote this knows nothing about russian family's and needs some SERIOUS HELP!!!even if said that u were from 1...hvatit ganit B>S

Oksana December 10, 2009 1:43 pm (Pacific time)

Love, care and discipline are very different from a physical abuse and hate. There is a line between them, and it is painfully sad that some characters do not see the difference, or do not want to see them, or just do not know any other way. Even worse when they are trying to state that; "This is a religion..., or the bible says ..., or the culture...". This is none of the above, people are people, all people are people, does not make a difference of an occupation, a religion,a race or the residence. Physical abuse is not a discipline, never was never will, does not matter where in the world it is. The difference is the justice. And thanks God this country has more justice than some people are used to seeing. Children and not only children but everyone needs love not fear. All abusers should be put away. All animals should be lucked up.

annymos December 8, 2009 10:59 pm (Pacific time)

"You deserved it" My parants never used force never took their anger out on me,and i'm form a russian family of 6. You have issues dude,,, wrestling your dad to the ground.You got some weird thoughts going through your mind,,, My Wish to You is to repent in front of God for your words about your Parents! God will judge YOU!!!

TO THE JUDGE December 7, 2009 6:37 pm (Pacific time)

Dear Judge,
Abcessed with the money and gold by looking at your age your not too far from the end of this eternity. My advice to you before you die-convert all your money to gold. If God will ever forgive you and except you to the worstest part of heaven that will help you repair the roads with your gold. Here you can get all the money and gold but you cant buy a clean, kind heart. I wish God opens your eyes. Bible says " Blessed is the merciful person and he will recieve mercy from the God"

Editor: This is completely absurd, and I am getting tired of approving this stupid and yes I said stupid nonsense! I am not going to continue publishing this garbage, the Judge in this case behaved like any other judge in this nation. The couple was extremely disrespectful, obnoxious and it was easy to see them being cruel to kids. If you want to advocate for people who are convicted of child abuse, that is your business, but you make your entire community look so bad! I am talking to all of you who keep going on and on and on about the "poor parents" when they physically and emotionally abused their children to the point that they actually had to run to the police for help. God must just despise the way you keep falsely using his name, it is a joke to associate Christianity with child abuse. People who abuse kids go to jail. These people abused their kids, the judge seemed to be as patient as he could in the face of such foolishness.

Anonyomous December 7, 2009 6:20 pm (Pacific time)

for those who belive truely in God, follow up the one true book, not Froids, Masllow and etc.,, Its a Bible, it clearly tells you that in the last days people will be sellfish, gready. 2 TIM 3:1-4 And especialy Math 10:17-22, Mark 13:12-14, Luke 21:16-17. Three different places 3 different authors( Apostilles) but same meanning GODS words, that said in Bible and was written in different countries different languages, and we can see that this all is happening these days . Look back 40-60 years or Abraham Lincolns times when you were geting spangked at schools and now I believe what is happening in this world, is not a ressession or just ecenomical brake down, God's finely got tired of hipecrisim, coruption, lies. But unfortuanetly it has to happen to someone otherwise words of God would not come through. Some sircumbstance I belive about Kozlov family is true - but abuse part like ; beating with all those objects, it"s a B.S. Purpous is to make this case 100% cheap and easy for the court and blame on the Ukranian religious thing, because they're honest people and care about their kids little to much. obviously you have to find them abusers,,, devil win this case,. Not for too long.

Micro Word December 4, 2009 9:04 pm (Pacific time)

Dear judge Tomas Hard, his (your) co-friends make justice, not by the LAW, but by their favorite eager money. They steel bloodthirsty grants from the government by spending time for unlawful judgment. Who loved money, hear all this and sneering at this family. You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. Give up Better! For destroying this family. Who digs the hole, the former will fall in it. God has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. Holy Word of Jesus Christ. All who go for separation Kozlov parents with their children going. WRONG WAY. First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the Day of Judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. The LAW of UNITED STATES of AMERICA is GOOD, BUT GOD’S LAW IS ABOVE. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the God’s Law. Human Judge Tom and his helpers are now “judging”, but JESUS CHRIST FOREVER. Editor, Please post these words. May God Bless your life.

Anonymous December 3, 2009 8:01 pm (Pacific time)

As it seems, all the media is on the children`s side... no wonder most of the people reading it are also supporting the Children without knowing the other sides opinion.

sasha December 3, 2009 8:12 am (Pacific time)

You guys are all not right it dosent matter how parents treat you the fact is that they are your parents.they gave you live they whant you to be people not animals like the ones sitting in cour and breaking good families apart.In russia its the other way.We belong in our country we have no respect here.AMERIVCA IS NOT A CHRISINE COUNTRY LIKE OBAMA SAID.

Yana...A Russian Girl October 16, 2009 8:45 am (Pacific time)

I come from a large Russian family of eight. Although our "papa" never abused us, he still disciplined us. Looking back, I don't blame him because my five siblings and I were the biggest trouble makers around! At first, it was with belts and rods, but then I guess he became influenced by how things are done here so he just started grounding us. Being Russian Christians, our relatives would always complain about the way my Dad had started to discipline us. But two years ago, my Mama died from cancer and ever since then any kind of discipline from my Papa has stopped. He became an Athiest and it didn't take long for us to get kicked out of our church even though I was still Christian and wanted to attend. I hate how my race uses Christianity as an excuse to do what they like including beating kids. It makes me want to become an Athiest too.

blackberry October 6, 2009 7:06 pm (Pacific time)

my parents did not spanked me in anger, in rage; and when I misbehaved , they kindly corrected me with a Rod; and I am so thankful they did discipline me; it never felt as an abuse; that was a form of love when they disciplined me, when a child. Shame to the author of that article! God will discipline the author as well! I truly loved and do love now and respect my beautiful parents!They gave me a life, education, food, clothing,... and everything I needed in time; always!!!

Tarja Eva Karhu September 30, 2009 6:20 pm (Pacific time)

Salemgirl, I'm sorry to hear your story. Oddly enough, I can relate; my "parents" did the same things to me...mostly out of anger and revenge...instead of correction.

no name September 30, 2009 4:57 pm (Pacific time)

How can kids do that, to their own perents, they are the one who give birth to them and raise them, i can believe that, they did that, they are other waise, not calling cops,,, wow,,, i hoppe they will be ok.. and be together as a family !!!!! God bless them and kids, one day they will know what they did. Parents are the only who will care for you and love you... And not all russians or Ukranian are the same so don't think that please....

Russian/Ukrianian/German girl September 22, 2009 5:54 pm (Pacific time)

Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. It is not easy for a loving parent to discipline a child, but it is necessary. The greatest responsibility God gives parents is the nurture and guidance of their children. Lack of discipline puts a parent's love in question because it shows a lack of concern for the character development of their children. Discipling children averts long-range disaster. Without correction, children grow up with no clear understanding of right and wrong and with little direction to their lives. Don't be afraid to discipline your children. It is an act of love. This does not give right to beat them until they are half alive but to try to correct their ways. There are many good points brought up by Vitaly, and others. I also noticed that when the Editor goes on the offensive its like he thinks that we are his dad and he is ready to jump and take away the belt from us. (Bolshoy Pozor). I really do hope that the family that was split will settle their differences and come together into one family that understands what the limits are. Also, not all religious followers are hypocritical. I am still being taught by loving parents and I wouldn't call it abuse because it really does help me to change my ways, compared to some of the "wild" kids in schools where their parents are to afraid to teach them because its "illegal". I think people should worry about drugs being illegal rather than the way kids are brought up by parents. This goes back to my point of how they should be brought up (with limitations). I hope this is understandable! God Bless all of you!!!!!

salemgirl September 21, 2009 3:46 pm (Pacific time)

in America, you are innocent unless proven guilty. These kids must have had alot of evidence to make the court rule the way that it did! I grew up in a ukrainian family. My mom goes to church every Sunday. My dad used to go to church. He calls himself a Christian. Although us kids were never beaten for correction, my dad has hit a few times out of rage. Even though there wasnt so much physical abuse, we went through alot of emotional abuse. Being yelled at by him is really scary. He would yell and make me scrub dishes because i was a girl. My mom knew of all the emotional abuse and wanted to divorce him a few times. She never did because she believed it was a burden given by God for her to carry. She believed the Bible was against divorce. Even if these kids werent that badly beaten, they must have gone through alot of emotional abuse to want to leave their parents!

jmass September 17, 2009 9:32 am (Pacific time)

A GOOD CHILD WILL NEVER GET (quote) 'abused'---- a better term is spanked. "abuse" is when someone causes inflicted pain on another person for no reason. Those against the "parents" obviously we know how your kids will turn out. My parents never "abused" us. yes an occasional slap on the butt when i talked back or swore. obviously i deserved it. The author was clearly abused/beaten HARD. I come form a family of 6 kids. We never even "tought " about ever going against our parents, the are the most loving people i know. Disapline creates you into the person you are today. And this guy/girl seems like hes righting from a depression clinic.....

Editor: If you use Firefox you will see a built in spell check. I don't agree with you at all but I am telling you that you need to write correctly if you want other people to listen to you.

mianna September 15, 2009 6:06 pm (Pacific time)

Tarja Eva Karhu September 10, 2009 10:17 pm (Pacific time)

Wow, Violetta, I'm sorry about your childhood.

Violetta September 9, 2009 10:45 pm (Pacific time)

I am a witness to the fact that hard beatings are done in Russian Christian families, and all in the name of God and the Bible. We came to faith when I was in my early teens, in the former Soviet Union, and I was very happy to find God and try to live a life pleasing to Him. I wanted to be an obedient daughter, but my parents were perfectionists and very hard to please. My parents often punished me in anger, screaming at me, using derogatory words and names, and beating me with either a hand, a belt, a switch. One time, my mother got so angry at me, she chased me around the house with a kitchen rolling pin. All the time through school, I was a straigh A student, respectful to teachers, and did my best with chores at home, but anything that did not meet parental standards meant beating. Of course, physical punishment after the age of 12 for a young girl is damaging to her self-esteem, psychee, etc. However, what was damaged more is my image of God and relationship with Him. Because all punishment was done in His name, I believed it was all my fault, that He wanted me to be treated like that, and that He did not love me unless I met His standards (and ultimately, I was taught to believe that they were my parents' standards). In Russia, harsh physical punishment for children is not against the law - and if it is now, it was not when I lived there. When I was in my late teens and old enough to live on my own, my family moved to the North America. Only here did I learn (from Christian friends at a University) that what I was enduring from my parents, was abuse and against the law. I also learnt, gradually, that it was not what I deserved and that God did not want me to be mistreated like that. I warned my parents of 911, and told them I would move out and live on my own if they ever tried to beat me again. At the age of 19, I did something they did not like (I was showering for too long) and they attacked and beat me up together after I came out of the bathroom. I did not report them, but after they left for work, I packed some of my stuff and moved out. God protected me from harm and provided for my needs. Now, I am 29 years old, married, and have two small children. We are Christians (my husband is American-born) and go to church. My parents and I are not close. I have forgiven them, but the relationship that we could have had is not there because they showed anger more than love. No parent should justify uncontrollable raging, name-calling, especially in God's name. It is the duty of a Christian parent to raise with love, to demonstrate Christ's humility and kindness, and to discipline for correction, not revenge. It is also a duty of a Christian parent to not provoke children to rage - and if a parent rages, a child will absorb anger and will lash out in anger, too. Anger is contagious. I had to go through counseling and read a lot of Christian parenting books in order to learn to parent in a different way from the way I was raised. I want my children to love me and love our God, and obey us out of love and gratitude, and not live in a constant fear and hatred of me or God. And btw, it is good to acknowledge that your parents did something wrong against you - if you don't, you are more likely to follow their example and repeat their mistakes when you have children yourself.

Tarja Eva Karhu September 8, 2009 4:42 pm (Pacific time)

I agree with Bob Jones. People like Vitaly can actually sleep well at night while people like me, you, been there and this editor are way too busy caring. Vitaly, are you for child abuse if I'm truly against it? If so, then you are sick.

bob jones August 28, 2009 12:56 pm (Pacific time)

hey Vitaly!~ Don't be ignorant. Why can't you except the fact that child abuse happens, just because u are fortunate enough to be raised in a loving home, does not mean that everyone is raised the same way.

vitaly August 22, 2009 10:30 pm (Pacific time)

HE GET WAT HE DESERVES!!!!!!I'm from a family of 13 kids.My Parents never punished me with anger , but they tried to discipline us with love and care.I'm also from russian family.Our Parents did not take out anger on us,instead they tried with Gods help to make good people out of us, and they were able to accomplish this!I'm very thankful to my Parents! Opposite of this person,I will never say anything bad about my Parents.It's most likely problem was NOT this guys parents,but with him self.My Wish to You is to repent in front of God for your words about your Parents! God will judge YOU!!!

Tanya August 21, 2009 11:19 pm (Pacific time)

That is why it looks like propaganda - quote: "People often wonder why so many Russian children are violent or just plain wild or uncontrollable." What people? Where? According to what research and statistics? I have worked with children of many different nationalities and there are a lot of children from a "wild bunch", but only a small percentage are from Eastern European countries. Actually, I find most Russian and Ukrainian kids very respectful and well behaved. Another quote: "It is merely a cry for help. These kids are raised in an extremely controlled and sheltered environment, raised with obnoxious religious outlooks, and told to act like everything is perfect in public no matter how much shit they are put through. Oh, and did I mention that ANY disobedience means a beating?" THESE kids? Really? How do you know that? Where did you get this info? Sounds like you HAVE been through a lot and you are obviously still hurt and bitter, but let's not jump to conclusions and say that your story represents the way that Russians and Ukrainians raise their families. Unfortunately, we see abuse and violence in many families, of very different nationalities. It takes on different forms too - haven't you seen moms shaking their kids in the store and yelling profanities at them? I grew up in a loving home, where I was cherished and disciplined when needed. My husband and I are working very hard to raise our 4 children the same way. And the truth is that sometimes a firm swat on that special spot seems to instill the understanding like no words did. Pain doesn't feel good, but it works. Imagine if you didn't feel pain from a burn and wouldn't move your hand away from the oven? The damage would have been much worse if pain didn't make you jerk your hand away.

been there August 19, 2009 4:10 pm (Pacific time)

thank you for your story, I am happy to hear that you moved on with your life. I come from a family of seven and our father was a brutal individual who was the biggest HYPOCRITE, to call your story child abuse is an understatement, children who are beaten like you were will never feel the justice from their parents as they should. For those of you who don't believe this story please know that it happens more often then you think. For those of you who say its propaganda please don't be ignorant and call me 401-633-4139 and I will give you names of those families who it happened to. I will be the first witness, I am from Ukriane been here since 1989 I am 29 yrs old. We need to pray for these kids, and parents.

had it more August 17, 2009 6:12 pm (Pacific time)

I too live in a russian family and i agree with this autor, but not all the way. My dad beats my for the littlest of things treats me like crap even though im 16 but not always sometimes he is a loving father and gives me a hug and says he loves me. But oh it hurts so much to think of the things that happened. My dad has lots of siblings and they to disipline their children russian style but very little and when they were small. I still have to deal with his rage. I am not allowed to go any where at anytime with out a parent forced to work almost all the time.But its ok i forgive him i feel bad for him beacause his dad beat him. When i grow up and leave him he will understand that he disiplined wrong but then it will be too late. As for these kids I agree i too wanted to leave many times but right before my dad does something loving. I will just grow up and pray to God that i wont do the same to my children.

Boris Burutto August 17, 2009 2:29 pm (Pacific time)

On August, 12th 2009 - http://iucecb.com/news/20090812-2329 Dear brothers and sisters, the Radio Voice of Peace (http://golosmira.com/-/) informs that children remain isolated from parents, and it is not authorised to Kozlovs spouses to meet children, including newborn daughter Lilja Kozlov (it have separated at the age of six days). The authorities it is groundless have broken the rights of the citizen of the USA Lilja Kozlov. So, in item 9 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child (http://iucecb.com/laws/20090807-0939) it is said that "the duty is assigned to the state-participant to provide, that the child was not separated from the parents contrary to their desire, except for cases when competent bodies, according to a judgement, will define according to the applicable law and procedures that such separation is necessary in the best interests of the child". Feeding mother of the power have separated from the small Lilja Kozlov eating chest parent milk, and have deprived of its natural food. Our Evangelic-Baptist brotherhood never was fanatic or antistate and owing to the religious Bible principles cannot make the criminal actions incriminated by the authorities to members of church of the city of Salem (the State of Oregon, the USA) to Alexander and Lyudmila Kozlovs. If to us the destiny of this family is not indifferent, we ask all sincerely loving Lord to pray and direct petitions to addresses of officials for a Kozlovs family that have returned all of their children - Lilja Kozlov (three weeks from a birth), Natasha Kozlov (9 years), Vova Kozlov (10 years), Alena Kozlov (11 years), Katya Kozlov (13 years), Dima Kozlov (14 years), Tanja Kozlov (15 years) - and did not interfere to bring up them how learns the Word of God. At hearing on August, 6th, 2009 the judge has changed the initial sum of pledge from $1 million to $80 thousand. Relatives have paid $8.000 , i.e. the tenth part of pledge, and now Lyudmila and Alexander Kozlovs on freedom to the basic court. The next hearing will take place on August, 18th, 2009.

Ivan August 17, 2009 11:35 am (Pacific time)

Wow, so much arguing over the matter... And it all seems like a bunch of miscommunications. Obviously all these commentators believe that 'child abuse' is wrong. And most with the exceptions of a few Christian hating liberals believe that 'discipline' is very beneficial in the physiological development of a child. I was born in the soviet country of Ukraine and came to America at the age of 6. I got disciplined a lot as a child, even with a belt at times. But every single time it happened, I sure deserved it. At the age of 12, when I hit my younger brother with a baseball bat because I got angry, I got spanked. And guess what, I started to control my anger towards my brother. At the same time when my neighbor David would fight with his younger brother his parents were to busy fighting with each other to even notice. Years passed by and by the age of 16, I was in high school, living a good kids life, while my neighbor David started smoking at age 14 and weed at 15. And by high school, David was doing other hard drugs, and decided to drop out. I ended up graduating from high school and going on to college. I now work on an ambulance as an EMT and finishing my nursing degree in college. My point is I am thankful to God with all of my heart for all the love that my Ukrainian parents had towards me and raised me the way they did, even if it meant pain once in a while from being spanked for doing something that was wrong and I knew it. I do agree though that a very small percentage of Ukrainian parents probably are more physical then they should be, but that goes without saying for all nationalities. Bottom line is CHILD ABUSE IS WRONG, WE KNOW THAT. GOD TEACHES US THAT THROUGH THE BIBLE. And most of us agree that discipline in the right context is good, no great for the ultimate well-being and even happiness of a child and ultimately adult. God bless everyone here... And I truly feel sorry for the parents and kids that are involved in this trial. I knew them personally, and I think it's sad to see things like this happen in our Ukrainian community. I'll keep and ask everyone else to please keep this family in our prayers, and God will be there every second for the kids and for the family. -God Bless

J August 17, 2009 12:32 am (Pacific time)

it is heartbreaking. I have been there too. My mom could not control herself once she begun meting out punishment. Even now,so many years later I still remember some of that horror. She would get angry and then just loose it. She would beat my brother and I without mercy, hitting with whatever she could get her hands on. Once in her fit of rage she grabed a belt and began strangling me. I was about 9 years old at the time. That incident was a defining momment. I learned that I cannot trust my mother. As I write this right now my heart is pounding and it happend almost 20 years ago. My mother and I never developed a close relationship. I struggled many years with feelings of hate towards her, and when I was about 22, I just desided to let it go, forgive her, but not forget( it is impossible to forget). I don't hate her anymore, but I don't wish to develop any close relationship ether. We speak on the phone occasionally and see each other several times a year even though we live in the same city.We simply do not share that mother-daughter bond. I did not mean to bear my soul to the public, but people who say that things like the author writes about just do not happen are in denial. they do happen and more often then you know. btw, my mother is very religious and was brought up in a very strict environment.

jenetta d August 16, 2009 5:19 pm (Pacific time)

THIS IS B.S HE GET WAT HE DESERVES!!!!!!

vitalik August 15, 2009 6:54 pm (Pacific time)

dude man, when u have kids and when they do this to you, what you did to your father you will remeber, what you did was wrong, its wrong to hit your parents under any circumstances, if you have trouble with your parents talk to them, talk to the pastor, what kinds of a russian hits his own dad ???? POZOR !!!!!!!

Nata August 10, 2009 10:54 pm (Pacific time)

I believe in discipline with love and with wisdom, my parents were wonderful, even when we were disiplened it was always with love and we always knew our parents love us. It does not matter if you are a Russian or American, children shoulb be disciplened with love.

dima d August 10, 2009 9:09 pm (Pacific time)

1. Love, care, instruction, exhortation, etc, AND Spanking (It’s supposed to HURT) are all God ordained methods of bringing up a child.

2. If you don’t Love, don’t instruct, don’t exhort, don’t talk to your child BUT - spank, don’t be surprised by the stories similar to the one written by "been through it all” There are arrogant parents that think it’s their responsibility to rod their children and nothing more.

3. If you love, instruct, exhort, and do all for your child, and NOT Spank, don’t be surprised if he/she grows up to be a selfish, arrogant, trouble making looser.   Kids, while they are small, they don’t understand reasoning, they don’t understand all the nice talk, but they do understand when it HURTS.

4. If you still spank your child when he is 12-15 yrs of age, you lost it as a parent LONG time ago. At this age, all you can do is pray for your child.

5. If you are a two- faced hypocritical parent, then you are only the one to blame. If you don’t have family Bible reading, if you don’t pray as a family, if you don’t have close bonds with your kids - where they can come up to you and ask you ANYTHING - you lost it long ago. Get on your knees and ask God and ask your kids to forgive you for being a hypocrite all these years.   Repent and start walking the talk.

6. I believe in Spanking. I spank my kids where it hurts, and yes they do cry loud afterwards. I also explain to them why they are getting spanked, I make sure they understand where they gone wrong (lied, misbehaved, etc) They ask for forgiveness, they ask God for forgiveness, we pray together, and afterwards we hug and kiss each other. Then I ask my kids, “why did daddy spank you?”, they reply "because daddy loves me". And yes, we are best friends, even through tears.   My oldest one is 7.

7. Dear editor, who, after a long list of BIBLE quotations wrote "If you abuse children you will be arrested and charged. Children have rights too. " This is worldly wisdom, and obviously you are not a Christian. Spanking (where it HURTS) is not abuse, its called Love -when done in a proper context.   Children’s right is to obey their parents. What right does an immature child have?   Wisdom is known by her children the Bible says.

8. This is applicable to Russians, Ukrainians, Chinese and Africans and every other nation on this planet. Nationality plays no difference. One Bible for all nations.   One standard for all nations. There are good and bad families in EVERY nation.

9. In this particular case I see no innocent parties. God brought this to happen to teach lessons to both sides. I pray the family will be reunited, and that both the parents and the kids will be faithful in fulfilling their God ordained obligations.   We Christians need not to take sides, but pray for all of them – for there is no perfect parents, and no perfect kids.

Editor: I don't see what my religion has to do with it. You think hurting kids in the name of God is your role in life, so what? I have been in news for over twenty years and I have seen the worst stories where children are brutalized by ruthless parents unable to teach without violence. I never said and will not say that spanking a child is wrong. If the spanking leaves scars however then it is a crime. No swat on a child's butt is a crime. If you do it ten times though, or use an instrument, then you are sick. I fully appreciate that the eastern European culture believes in discipline. I do also, but I just believe in being reasonable about it. For all the talk about Christianity, I sure don't see anything Godly in being accused of abusing your kids.

3timesmommy August 9, 2009 11:14 pm (Pacific time)

Been Through It All, thank you for your story. I am glad you were able to move on and become a well-adjusted adult that you are despite your difficult childhood. To all the ignorant people questioning the truthfulness of what this person wrote, yes, some parents can and do abuse their children, yes, they do hit them for no good reason, yes, it happens. You are a very naive and sheltered person if you don't think it is possible. Just because you have never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Vadim August 7, 2009 7:10 pm (Pacific time)

parents are free how about kid? are they going back to their family too?

Boris Burutto August 7, 2009 9:20 am (Pacific time)

Glory to God!!!

kravchukfamily.com August 6, 2009 2:05 pm (Pacific time)

The parents are free now! August 06, 2009.

GOD IS IN CONTROL-not us! August 5, 2009 9:58 pm (Pacific time)

1st of all. WHAT GOES AROUND COMES BACK AROUND.(for the person who wrote this article-your kids will treat u No better then you treated ur parents.) so even if your parents were too strict and didn't have pattience with you,that doesn't give you any right to not listen to them.(...Deti bydte poslyshni roditelyam vashim..) They are your parents! And it says in the Bible that you will have to answer in front of God for every little thing you did your words,thoughts, and deeds. YOU WILL ANSWER IN FRONT OF GOD,Because u went to church and you knew/know what was right...even if your parents were 2-faced in church and at home. You should repent in front of God, for forgivnness and He will forgive you,Because he is verry loving. God bless you. And what will happen with that family.EVERYTNIG IS IN GODS HANDS,whatever is HIs will,thats what will happen.

Ivan Rizhkov August 4, 2009 7:34 pm (Pacific time)

I'm from a family of 9 kids.My Parents never punished me with anger , but they tried to discipline us with love and care.I'm also from russian family.Our Parents did not take out anger on us,instead they tried with Gods help to make good people out of us, and they were able to accomplish this!I'm very thankful to my Parents! Opposite of this person,I will never say anything bad about my Parents.It's most likely problem was NOT this guys parents,but with him self.My Wish to You is to repent in front of God for your words about your Parents! God will judge this family...

aga August 4, 2009 7:18 pm (Pacific time)

Your testimony is YOURS. Your case is EXTREME. That does not mean it happens in other families or that it happened in the salem family. Your story looks like propaganda to make things worse for these parents.

just me August 4, 2009 5:15 pm (Pacific time)

HONOUR THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER: THAT THY DAYS MAY BE LONG UPON THE LAND WHICH THE LORD THY GOD GIVETH THEE EXODUS 20:12

Anny August 4, 2009 1:43 pm (Pacific time)

I would advice to send oldest children to children colony where the get a good education.They will learn how to listen to their parent and especially oldest son will know good lessons not to steal and how to be a good person.Parents made big mistake probable they did not know that there are many "good places" where our community teach children how to be nice.If they do not listen to parents they do not listen to others.They need special education.I pretty sure after that their parents never even yield at them.

Anny August 4, 2009 1:33 pm (Pacific time)

I think the three of oldest children need special education,especially oldest son.His parent had to sent him to children colony where they will teach him not to steal and listen to his parents and i am pretty sure his parents never even yield at him.

heartbroken by your story August 4, 2009 12:15 pm (Pacific time)

That is a propaganda!!! Poor YOu and your parents! I do not believe that someone could write anything like that about his parents, unless the author is crazy teenager,and don't even know what he is demanding . maybe his parents were drunken or on drugs, if they treat him like that: apple don't fall far from the tree - so he must be the same as his parents!!!sad! poor person!

God will judge you August 4, 2009 10:17 am (Pacific time)

To the person that wrote this, keep in mind the following: “а кто соблазнит одного из малых сих, верующих в Меня, тому лучше было бы, если бы повесили ему мельничный жернов на шею и потопили его во глубине морской.” “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6 If you encourage the little ones that can't tell the difference between the right and wrong may God be your Judge. I was raised in a strict environment but only in time I realized what I was taught. From your article sounds as if you are still angry at your parents but that is only bringing you down, you should let it all go. For a sinful life that we all lived we should all live in miserable lives, but we are given new opportunity to live righteous in His name. I'm not trying to say that your parent did the right thing by punishing you with anger, it is simply wrong. But the outcome of having the kids without parents will be a lot worse punishment to both kids and parents than any strictly given lesson. Careful the days are evil, the evil is trying to break the families apart, and with our laws we're helping him.

Doesn't matter August 4, 2009 6:06 am (Pacific time)

First, it's a shame someone would be trashing their family like that. Talk to your parents about it, not to all these people who have no idea what really happened and why your parents were so upset with you. There must have been a reason. I can't imagine my parents doing that to me, and I'm one of 9 kids. My family came from Russia when I was a kid, and I have never experienced any of this horror described here. I can't imagine why any parent would all of the sudden start beating their kid??? This does not give pleasure, and I'm a mother of three now and I know. I know that I would never hurt my child but rather discipline in a manner that they will understand what they're doing wrong. In this article it sounds like the child was very full of hatred towards the family. Maybe it's just my take... Maybe now that you're not a kid anymore, you can start communicating with your parents and letting them know that what they did to you was wrong. It will help you heal much better than posting articles on the web. Just a suggestion...

---- August 3, 2009 9:10 pm (Pacific time)

when i was a kid, my parents punish me, BUT they NEVER beat me up!!! and my parents are TRUE christians, they act at home and in the church the same. My parents is the BEST and they're russian. I pray for this family and hope this family will be reunited. Peope PLEASE don't be racist!

nico August 3, 2009 5:20 pm (Pacific time)

this is a political article to disgrace Ukrainians. First of all: #1. Ukrainians dont beat their children. They love their children. #2. This family are russians, not Ukrainians. They want to paint a picture that Ukrainians are brutal. Thats not the case. In my house we always had love, peace and comfort. This is all A LIE! DONT BELIEVE THIS!!!!

Daniel Johnson August 3, 2009 1:52 pm (Pacific time)

Been there as well: You say that kids should be spanked "really good in a timely manner and fairly. That's an interesting viewpoint. Tell me how a 150-200 pound adult can fairly strike a 30 or 40 pound child? All that teaches a child is that bigger and stronger beats smaller and littler every time--and that's okay.

Just another child... August 3, 2009 1:07 pm (Pacific time)

Thank you so much for posting this article. I know exactly how you felt and what you went through... Only with God's grace and forgiveness I am able to move on with life after more than a decade of horrible beatings by my dad. I believe that God will "reward" these parents after this life (if they don't repent before God and their children), but in essence, they are already receiving their punishment now, in many different ways. Thanks again, Been Through It All! P.S. Scars will not go away, but there CAN be a wonderful future and life for those who went through this hell.

Been there as well August 3, 2009 12:16 pm (Pacific time)

Racist article, written by an out of control kid. People like that become criminals and blame their parents for beating them. If they didn't beat you, who knows what kind of beast you would have become! I don't endorse abuse, I simply want to point out that there are really evil kids out there and something needs to be done about it! You can't beat them. OK. Then what do you do with them??? Counseling, cute-cuddly stuff? If it worked, then our penal system would work, and our prisons would release rehabilitated people. Do they?! If a person wasn't broken as a child, no prison will do that, because it's too late! By breaking a stubborn wild child I don't mean beating. I'm talking about a broken will to do whatever they want whenever they want. Prisons are full of people like that, and it's too late to change anything for them. We leagally allow our kids to rule this country. I'm not saying let us all beat the crap out of our kids, I'm saying let's take away this "I'm turning you in" lever away from kids by spanking them really good in a timely manner and fairly.

Anonymous August 3, 2009 6:20 am (Pacific time)

"Perhaps you should read Colossians rather than proverbs"??? What kind of Bible-reading Christian are you? The ENTIRE Bible must be read and everything must be taken in context! That's the point of God's word, it doesn't only call for everyone to be all cute and cuddly with one another. It also commands punishment for sin. Believe it or not, misbehaving and not listening to your parents is a sin. Therefore, per GOD's word, there must be punishment.

August 1, 2009 8:05 pm (Pacific time)

The rod represents the truth. telling lies is hateful. Being honest and open is loving. If you hate your children you will not provide any meaningful truth for them to build on. Discipline is simply a teaching process and something every loving parent does with care, not violence. The bible has been greatly misconstrued to the disservice of god and man.

To eSSIW394 August 1, 2009 6:34 pm (Pacific time)

Perhaps you should read Colossians rather than proverbs. "Since God chose you to be the holy people he loves, you must clothe yourselves with tenderhearted mercy, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. *cough, especially toward your own children, cough* -- Colossians 3:12 New Living Translation Bible

eSSIW394 August 1, 2009 3:03 pm (Pacific time)

thats funny the way people understand about spanking,it seems to me that people are forgetting about the bible...
Proverbs 13:24 He who spares his rod hates his son,
But he who loves him disciplines him promptly.

Proverbs 19:18 Chasten your son while there is hope,
And do not set your heart _ on his destruction.

Proverbs 22:15 Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child;
The rod of correction will drive it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13 Do not withhold correction from a child,
For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die.

Proverbs 23:14 You shall beat him with a rod,
And deliver his soul from _ hell.

Proverbs 29:15 The rod and rebuke give wisdom,
But a child left to himself brings shame to his mother.

Editor: If you abuse children you will be arrested and charged. Children have rights too.

Marishka July 31, 2009 9:27 pm (Pacific time)

"it is a first-hand account of how tough life can be while growing up in a Russian-American household." Does this not say in Russian family? yes it does, for people who don't know Russians and read this would figure that all Russian family are like this behind closed doors. It's a well written article and sad to read and hear about these kind of families, and you being a victim is horrible. I don't hit my kids and never think of spanking them they are only 2 and 3 years old I only talk them and put them in a corner or in their room and tell them what they did wrong and why it's wrong. .. so these kind of stories with parents beating and abusing their kids I just don't get, why parents have kids and than beat them it's just tragic. All I wanted to point out is that not ALL RUSSIAN families are two faced nor do all Russian family beat or hit or even spank their kids inside the house or out.

TO : Been Through It All July 31, 2009 6:38 pm (Pacific time)

I dont see how this story relates to the one in Salem about the Ukrainian Family . No one knows what happened in that family except God,Parents,Children. Plus im amazed how many people can believe underage kids and take them seriously .

Anonymous July 31, 2009 11:52 am (Pacific time)

notconfused July 31, 2009 10:27 am (Pacific time)

They are Russians from Ukraine. Ethnicity is important to differentiate one group from another.

Been Through It All July 31, 2009 8:56 am (Pacific time)

Nowhere in my story did I say that all russian people are like that. My letter was not racist in any way. It was me telling a story about MY past, where a parent crosses the line from disciplining to beating a child. I never said that all parents are like this, but some are, and I was one of the unlucky ones who had to put up with it.
Yes, I am russian, and no, I'm not a 14 year old. I am an adult who was stubborn enough to survive through all that abuse, and yet, when I had an opportunity for revenge that I had been craving for years, I had the self control to let it go.
And to the closeminded f*#ks who think that parents would never do that, you have OBVIOUSLY not been through anything like this.

marishka July 30, 2009 11:41 pm (Pacific time)

by the way, who ever you are sorry you had to be a victim of abuse :(

Marishka July 30, 2009 10:09 pm (Pacific time)

First of all NOT ALL RUSSIANS ARE THE SAME THERE ARE PLENTY OF AMERICAN AND OTHER KIND OF PEOPLE ABUSING AND HITTING AND BEATING KIDS. THIS ARTICLE IS RACES. Yes, this is sad that it happens very sad but it doesn't mean that growing up in a Russian family is like this story for everyone. STOP HATING! Just because it happened to you or these people who are accused (but not proven) were or are abused DOES NOT MEAN ALL RUSSIAN FAMILIES ARE LIKE THIS!!!THIS IS VERY RACIAL and DISRESPECTFUL TO ME AND OTHER RUSSIAN PEOPLE. :( You make it seem like Russians are abusers and two faced. That's not true. There are good and bad people in every culture every religion everywhere DON"T POINT FINGERS please! :(

anna July 30, 2009 8:52 pm (Pacific time)

u are so right!!! beating ur kids only makes them more violent. i'm sorry to hear about your childhood. very sad ;( it brings a tear to my eye. i hope every thing is better and ur enjoying life to the best! God Bless

irina July 30, 2009 7:16 pm (Pacific time)

It's the culture that we come from, that makes this seem ok. But it is not. Wish more parents realized it sooner, not when their kids are taken from them. Also, I wish more parents realized that it is not ok to leave small children at home by themselves, even for a shrt period of time. It might've been ok where we come from, but not here. Plus, if you are a mother, shouldn't your instinct be to protect your child?

smoother July 30, 2009 6:14 pm (Pacific time)

this is crap! r u Russian/Ukrainian?

To the survivor July 30, 2009 5:27 pm (Pacific time)

NOT MY PARENTS you may be the lucky one to get all of this but, may i ask are you a 14 year-old making up stories? A parent would never do that(i have never herd of that in all my life!!!)i wouldn't say your parents were true Christians.

Anonymous July 30, 2009 4:43 pm (Pacific time)

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