Case of Abused Ukrainian Children Unprecedented

The parents are accused of inflicting punishment with items that included wire straps, dog switches and rocks.

(SALEM, Ore.) - A detective in Marion County says it's the worst case of child abuse he has ever seen. Several children removed from a Ukrainian immigrant home in Salem say they have been brutalized by their parents since arriving in the United States six years ago.

40-year old Alexander Kozlov and 39-year old Lyudmila Kozlova were arrested for child abuse against six of their children, who called 911 July 19, 2009, asking the police to rescue them. The kids are aged 15, 14, 13, 11, 10, 9 and six days.

"It is the 14-year old girl who got it the worst," Marion County Sheriff's Office Lt. Sheila Lorance said, describing years of beatings with items that included wire straps, dog switches and rocks.

It seems clear from the comments and other statements, that the punishment was inflicted on the girl because she cut her hair without the authorization of her family.

One person commenting on the story by the name of Vlad, said these "kids are demons i ones knew them, i herd them how they were talking about their parents how much they hate them cuz they give soo little rights like do what ever they please... i hope these kids get deported to Africa."

That is the level of support we are detecting from friends of the parents, mostly comprised of their church congregation. Many of the leaving comments reference God and the Bible in making their point.

"They are not abusing their kids!!! they are just trying to set them on the right path in life. i hope the police will set them free and give their kids back to them. prey for them everyone..... Also, aren't the kids at the age of going through puberty? how could the police believe teenagers without proper investigation." - Anonymous

40-year old Alexander Kozlov and 39-year old Lyudmila Kozlova
were arrested for child abuse against six of their own kids.

"Just few weeks ago I've been in camp with those three older kids. I was one of the stuff members and had to work a lot with them as a choir director. May be I am wrong, but I think that they where the hardest teenagers that I ever had to work with. Through out whole camp I didn't even know what they wanted. They didn't participate in pretty much any camp activities, not in camp church nor in games." - Andrey

I think most psychologists or councilors who work with the abused, would say that kids who are beaten regularly by their parents often "drop out" of activities and lose interest in school. Their will to learn and discover can be replaced with anxiety, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, depression and fear.

A person with a completely different point of view offered this comment, "These Russian/Ukrainian 'baptists' think that they have a blank check to do whatever they want, or whatever seems right to them without regards to the laws of the country they live in. And this is sick. Even now people blindly supporting them. Supporting whom? People who cruel to their own children, because they used to get away with that in their country? But the facts and evidence of abuse should be listened to, not their religious affiliations. May justice be served. " - E

The colorful people throughout the Mid-Willamette Valley who hail from Russia and the Ukraine, are an interesting and often colorful aspect of Oregon culture.

These residents of eastern European heritage are a group we don't often hear a lot about. It seems possible that certain types of physical punishment, clearly illegal in the United States, are being practiced regularly. It also seems clear based on the comments, that a large number of people who attend church with the accused are on the same page when it comes to defending them.

Lt. Sheila Lorance, says the kids are courageous for coming forward. The case will be taken by the District Attorney to the Grand Jury.

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Comments

Comments are Closed on this story.

Editor December 18, 2009 12:43 am (Pacific time)

There are too many comments on this story, they are being moved to our newest story: The Debate Over Child Abuse in Oregon's Ukrainian Community - Tim King Salem-News.com

John Denver December 18, 2009 12:06 am (Pacific time)

HUMAN, you can't shut me up, this is America!!! Seriously some of you need to be investigated by the FBI, your anti-Americanism scares me, this could be a national security issue...KGB could be working through some of you. I will personally write a letter to the FBI.

Oleg Ilyushenko December 17, 2009 10:16 pm (Pacific time)

Do not judge all Russians by one family... www.pematv.org

December 17, 2009 6:17 pm (Pacific time)

Let them go becauseI know that they did not beat their children they just spanked them. I think that the bruises you saw were because the children fell.Children always fall.

HUMAN December 17, 2009 2:52 pm (Pacific time)

dude john denver shut up. u fight for nothing you little bodysnatcher swarmheaded sea lice.!!!!!

Natalie December 16, 2009 11:29 pm (Pacific time)

Useless roosters fight. I don't see any prize for any of you in this tragic story though. So, please have some dignity.

Mr. Truth December 16, 2009 7:53 pm (Pacific time)

To John Denver... John, you didn't get the point. You aren't the one who gave me the Green Card, so you won't be the one who will tell me what to do with it. Our opinions are not narrowed. Your twisted mind thinks they are. Your poor understanding of the Word and silly criticism make you think you know something. You sound more like an arrogant man, rather then a Christian. You didn't even get what I was trying to say. Hope one day you will come to the knowledge of God will repent. If not, feel sorry for you.

John Denver December 16, 2009 4:16 pm (Pacific time)

To Mr. Truth. I just found out that one way air ticket from the West coast to Kiev is around $1,200. I could help you with this if you want to go back. Before you get my help though you will need to write a letter to the Department of Homeland Security (Immigration) and renounce your permanent residency (Green Card). All you need is to tell them that you are going back and you no longer wish to hold the Green Card and your permanent residency will be revoked. Then post the letter of revocation and you will get an air ticket from me. As for your credit card debts, I know it’s the Christmas season now, but I am certainly not Santa. Take care of your debts alone Mr. Truth. I am not anti- Christ as you stated I am anti -your distorted views about religion and our justice system. Any person that you guys disagree with is labeled anti-Christ. Who told you that only you and your little group of so-called believers hold a monopoly to the name of Christ? This to me is the hallmark characteristic of a cult. The kids who reported their parents are “devils”, the judge and the editor will face “God’s judgment” and so on and so forth. This is how cults universally operate. Maybe the reason you could not get a job Mr. Truth is because your qualifications were irrelevant to the labor needs of the USA. I know many immigrants who are doctors, nurses, computer specialists, and Latin American farm workers etc who got their H1B visas (work visa) at the American embassies in their native countries and arrived in the States with jobs waiting for them. These are the immigrants that America needs. People who will add value to the labor market and not to be a burden to tax payers. From time to time America does bring over immigrants on humanitarian grounds such as refugees, asylum seekers etc. This category tend not to have the requisite qualifications to get good jobs. However, the onus rests upon them to go to school, learn the language and get some qualification. That’s why we have community colleges and universities. So don’t blame America for not getting a job, probably your qualifications or expertise were not what the labor market needs.

John Denver December 16, 2009 4:15 pm (Pacific time)

Mr. Truth December 15, 2009 8:36 pm (Pacific time)

To John Denver. John, what are you talking about? I was persecuted at all and I got a green card. I wasn't even sure if I want to go, when a friend of mine asked me to apply for me. I didn't believe it will happened. Now, you mentioned about American comfort? I've been trying to find a job for two months, now. Sending applications, Resumes, calling, knocking the doors... nothing came back. Run out of money. You call that COMFORT? You make me laughing. As if you live in Bahamas. True Americans know, how hard you should work to get some money. And don't tell us we're lazy. When I worked at a factory, all I heard from Americans, "Man, you're working to much, you shouldn't work that much." Supervisors didn't give me any promotion within two years. One of the new supervisors told me that the reason was that I was stable and a hardworking, and supervisors wanted me to fill out that low position. So, John, your talks are rubbish. You mentioned something about helping me going back??? Not a problem at all. Having no job I was thinking, maybe that's exactly what God wants me to do. But see John, having been lived here I got some debts, credits. SO, before I go back I need them to be paid off. Will you take care of them? If you will, I will go home. Promise you. But something tells me, you will NOT. Besides, you already showed your true faith. Trust me, it is not Christianity. You are more likely an Anti-Christin. Cause a Christin wouldn't go, against another Christian. On the other hands Christians are not racists, unlike you. I wish one day, you'd come to the true knowledge of God, through His Son Jesus Christ. You used passages, remember, devil also was using passages talking to Jesus. Let me know John, when you are ready to pay my debts and help me to pack up. Hope you are not a chatter-box.

Igor December 15, 2009 3:15 pm (Pacific time)

True American? I like the sarcasm

True American December 15, 2009 2:48 am (Pacific time)

PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE! Just look at american kids - not listening to their parents, american parents don't care about their children, the streets are dead in the summer because american kids only know how to play video games, american guys that are in theis 20-ies aren't mature enough to get married, most of them get married in their 40-ies and not for long, americans are #1 racists, americans don't know that giving full freedom to teenagers will destroy them because parents have the knowledge and wisdom to correct teenagers, america forgot about God.
Other nations' kids - smart, mature, they don't play video games till they're 40 yrs old, their minds are open to understand wisdom and not to look at things from a patriotic point of view (like americans). American government is washing americans' brains in the way that they want through tv, radio, and many other ways, and americans believe the government and think that it's doing everything only for the best of their dear peoples...this is such old rubbish it's making me want to puke. American fake smiles are a stupid way to show true friendliness. Americans are ALL snitches. Americans are always scared of something. Boy can i keep going...

Editor: You seriously should move back where you came from as your point of view is anti-American, not true.

Nela December 15, 2009 12:06 am (Pacific time)

This trial reminds me a Communist trial - look the same. When my father was in Siberia (Stalin prison) for 10 years, communists took him and his sister away from his parents the same way. Americans, wake up! Look, what generation is coming, how many prisons need to be built? Let parents take care of their children.

ProudToBeAnAmerican December 15, 2009 2:56 am (Pacific time)

AMERICA IS NOT #1 RACIST COUNTRY! THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE SOME KIND OF POWER ARE #1 RACISTS IN THIS COUNTRY! I'M AN AMERICAN CITIZEN AND I CAN LET YOU KNOW ALL YOU RUSSIANS THAT WE AMERICANS DON'T DRAG AMERICAN PARENTS/KIDS TO COURTS LIKE WE DO RUSSIANS. ONE OF THE REASONS IS BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY GAY/LESBIAN COUPLES THAT CAN'T NATURALY HAVE KIDS, SO THEY BUY SMART RUSSIAN KIDS FOR A LOT OF MONEY. FOR EXAMPLE IF YOU COME TO A HOSPITAL AFTER YOUR CHILD HITS ON SOMETHING OR SOMETHING, THE DOCTOR THAT WANTS TO MAKE SOME HUGE MONEY WILL CALL THE COPS AND EVERYTHING AND OUR JUDGES WILL TAKE YOUR CHILD AWAY AND THEN THOSE SICK COUPLES THAT WANT KIDS WILL FIND THEM AND WILL GET THE KIDS. AND NOW THAT YOU KNOW THIS TRUTH ABOUT US AMERICANS GO AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!

John Denver December 15, 2009 2:09 am (Pacific time)

To Anonymous First of all you remain in denial, the court found beyond reasonable doubt that abuse took place and there was concrete evidence in the form of bruises from beatings. Secondly in reply to your question if my 15 year old comes home with a tattoo what will I do? Simple answer NOTHING. Where is written in the bible that a tattoo is sin? Your provincial, legalistic and anachronistic way of thinking just confounds me. Thirdly, I still maintain there was scam in the 90s to bring to the states a majority of Russian/Ukrainians/Moldavian Pentecostals and Baptists who were never persecuted at all. I agree that some where persecuted just like your grandfather and that was mostly way back under Stalin. Remember Stalin persecuted everyone and not only Christians so your grand fathers case and other Christians was not unique at all. Jews were also persecuted, so were Gypsies, Refuseniks, political opponents, homosexuals etc. So, Christians from the former Soviet Union can not claim to have an exclusive monopoly to persecution. Comrade Stalin persecuted everyone. Pentecostals/Baptists from the USSR came to the States when Gorbachev was in power and at that time persecution of Christians and for that matter every one had come to an end. That was the time of perestroika and glasnost. Just because your grand father was persecuted by some Stalin I don’t care about why should an American tax payer be burdened to bring you here, put you on welfare, housing programs, and empty our food banks? I admire the Soviet immigrants that came to the US before 1980, most of them were Jews, educated, open-minded and hardworking. The bunch or religious sect (yes that’s what it is) that came in after 1990 were just economic refugees, uneducated, provincial, narrow-minded and legalistic, lazy, and welfare seeking. My final point to Anonymous is: Just follow American laws and you will be fine, but if you feel you are being persecuted for your faith, my advice is for you to go back, after all Christianity is thriving and growing in the former Soviet Union…or maybe you have found America material life too comfortable

Igor December 15, 2009 12:52 am (Pacific time)

There are always two sides to the story. None of us were in that house so you all sound dumb trying to prove something you dont know about. AND the parents are dumb for not taking a lawyer and acting the way they did in court

Nela December 15, 2009 12:04 am (Pacific time)

Rachel... December 14, 2009 11:32 pm (Pacific time)

Please let them go. I bet so much people different religions,race, etc punish and hit their kids but hide it and their kids learn somethimg from there parents punishment. And some kids are just not so dumb like these. man god bless u all. and give the children back to their parents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

me December 14, 2009 11:28 pm (Pacific time)

pleeeeeeeease. Let them please go. im begging u! the kids are LIIIIIIERS!!!! Devil is just bothering them and telling them bad stuff to do. Let them go! look at the parents. look how they feel! do you people have feeling for anyone these days..... If you dont punish and spank your kids then your kids are going to turn out like bratz and more stuff that i dont want to say. so much parents that dont care or spank/punish their kids they turn out bad so bad stuff like drink, start smoking,and so much more that u dont even know. just giiiiiiiiiiiive the kids back to the parents and put like cameras in their house and they can spank their kids and punish them but they will not hit their kids with wires,dog leashes, etc the kids are so big liers. Dear god please help the kids so they would stop lieng. i knew the parents they never ever did such things like this. they just hit them a little bit on the butt and made them go to their room and read like 12 chapters of the bible. maybe sometimes they would hit their children with a belt but not with wires. etc..... Pleasssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee GIVE THEM ANOTHER CHANCE PLEASE EVERYONE WILLL LOVE U GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GOD BLESS U ALL AND AGAIN PLEASE GIVE THE KIDS BACK TO THE PARENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Anonymous I December 14, 2009 7:51 pm (Pacific time)

TO: John Denver! How dare you say such a thing!!!!!! We did not come here for any wealth! How dare you!!! You have no clue of our life no idea what we think and why we think it. How could you say that we did not suffer anything and no rights were taken away from us in the USSR!!! My grandpa died because he was a Protestant. The other was sent to a prison came in Siberia and we know nothing more of him!!!!!!!!!! The mom and dad were just trying to raise there children!! I am more then 100% sure that they did not abuse them. There is no proof in the court case (if you watched it) that says that the parents abused the kids. Investigators are going only off of the kids words. The main thing that got them in to prison is that they made their kids pray and go to church!!! Let me ask you a question how would you react if your 15 year old son can home with a tattoo? Now you tell me would you say good job go get another one! Did you know that that 15 year old was already in prison! You tell me the answer to this what will be of that kid in 2 or 3 years? Who will these kids be? You think that there parents could not change them and some other person would???? Answer me?!?!?????????!!!!

John Denver December 14, 2009 2:42 pm (Pacific time)

Mr Truth, please come down and take a deep breath. Here is my simple suggestion the church is no longer persecuted in Russia or Ukraine or Moldova so you are free to go back and punish your kids all you want with items such as sticks, rods, electric wires, fists and what have you…I doubt if you will go back to Ukraine/Moldova/Russia Mr Truth, and you know why? Because 99% of you guys were never persecuted for your faith under the communists, you just jumped on the persecution bandwagon to get a free pass to the USA. Truth is YOU ARE SIMPLY ECONOMIC REFUGEES period! You came here for the material comfort. You love the comfort America offers, the freedom and relatively secure environment. Life is tough in the villages over there Mr Truth and you know that- no jobs, fetching water from wells, no cars, bathing once a week, nothing to eat but borsch etc. If America is so decadent as you claim why are you not going back? I wouldn’t mind donating to help you pack.

VM December 14, 2009 12:15 pm (Pacific time)

There are many sides you can look at this from. It is far more complex than it seems at first. One problem, for example, is that many older people (raised in Soviet Union) tend to look at American government, as being abusive by default. They do not trust the government and assume, fear and expect persecution at any given moment. On the opposite side, the government assumes by default that anyone who spanks their children is an abuser. Those two opposites feed on each other's preconceptions. Therefore, everyone in Slavic community tends to automatically defend the non-government side. There have been known cases where the government was clearly wrong when they took the children away. Those cases are widely publicized among Slavic groups which tends to justify the the assumption of persecutive government. The truth is that are are cases of abusive parents and there are cases of abusive government. We should not blindly assume one or another and we should not close our eyes to any abuse. If parents abuse their children, they should be punished. If the government does the abuse, they should be ...??? Ah, the justice doesn't seem equal here and hence the problem feeds on itself. Anyone knows the solution?

Mr. Truth from Denver December 13, 2009 7:40 pm (Pacific time)

To John from Denver. Hey, you think you are so smart, huh? Our what if I'll find you Americans, who have their heads covered? What you gonna say smarty? No, don't make yourself a great theologian, cuz U R NOT. You choose Scriptures selectively, that's why 90% of your Church members live double-life. One in Church, the other outside. I hear al the time from Americans bad stories about their fellow-American "Christians", who fornicate, do drugs, swear and curse. What am I suppose to tell them, huh? Maybe I should send them to you, cause you are here the one who knows what Christians are like, or should be likeand Have you ever been persecuted for faith, or your faith just based on blah-blah-blah? You've asked the most stupid question I have EVER heard:If spanking helps why are so many Ukrainian christian child in prison? The same question, I can refer to American Christians. But something tells me you won't give a wright answer. Why so many kids in American Christian families do drugs, swear and go to jail? The same reason - parents didn't punish them on time. I remember after 9/11 in on of the Early Morning Shows, daughter of one of the World known Evangelist's Billy Graham, was giving interview. She said, "Why is that, that we no longer see the difference between spanking children and beating up, punching? And then we wonder, why our kids know not the difference and take guns and go to schools and shoot their class mates?" I personally know why, CAUSE there are people like JOHN FROM DENVER. They know not the Scripture AT ALL, or SELECTIVELY, and therefore they think that they know everything. John from Denver, I can find some American great preachers that will tell you that you are 100% MISTAKEN and who will doubt your knowledge of the Word or even your Christianity. You are here just a mere typist. We don't know you and your life. What if you are no better, then your non-Christian neighbor in words, actions, behavior? But, oh yeah, here you are a "Theologian" and "the one" who "knows" Ukrainian Christians and children's education. Hope you have children and they will grow the way they should be. Cuz otherwise you are a big-mouth, no less.

dan December 12, 2009 12:04 am (Pacific time)

WOW... IM SO SHOCKED AT WHAT SOME PEOPLE HAD TO SAY ON HERE. AS WE ALL KNOW THERE ARE ALWAYS TWO SIDES TO A STORY. I DONT UNDERSTAND HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN BE SO IGNORANT AND CRUEL. LETS LOOK AT THE FACTS. IF YOU DO NOT DISCIPLINE YOUR KIDS (WHICH IS WHAT AMERICA PROMOTES) THAN THE KIDS TURN OUT TO BE RAPISTS, MURDERERS, DRUGGIES, THIEFS AND SO MUCH MORE. TURN ON THE NEWS AND SEE WHATS GOING ON IN THE WORLD. HOW MANY TIME DO YOU SEE A CASE IN WHICH A RUSSIAN/UKRANIAN FAMILY IS INVOLVED IN CRIME??? 1 OUT OF A MILLION. YES RUSSIAN PEOPLE TRY TO DISCIPLINE THEIR KIDS TO GROP UP AS PROPER AND WELL MANNERED KIDS. IT HAS BEEN PROVED THAT WHEN THERE IS A LACK OF DISCIPLINE, KIDS TURN OUT TO BE NOT ONLY VIOLENT BUT IN OTHER WORDS CRAZY!!! WHY IS DISCIPLINE BEING TURNED INTO ABUSE?? THERE ARE SO MANY CASES OUT THERE WHERE PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL ABUSE HAPPENS AND THE CASES ARE DROPPED!!! THIS FAMILY RECIEVES 7 YEARS??? A RAPIST DOESNT GET THAT MUCH!! WHAT IS THIS COUNTRY COMING TO?? I HOPE JUSTICE IS PREVAILED IN THIS CASE!! BY THE WAYS TEENAGERS ARE NOT ALWAYS THE ONES TO BE HONEST.. JUST BECAUSE A CHILD HAS A BRUISE, DOESNT MEAN THAT IT CAME FROM AN ABUSIVE PARENT. A PARENT CARES AND LOVES THEIR CHILD, AND NOW THAT THE KIDS ARE IN FOSTER CARE, IM SURE THEY WILL COME TO THEIR SENSES AND REGRET WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. JUST REMEMBER THE WORLD IS ROUND, WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND!!! AND TO THE KIDS, GOOD LUCK IN FOSTER CARE BECAUSE NOTHING IS BETTER THEN BEING WITH YOUR PARENTS.

vs December 11, 2009 6:18 pm (Pacific time)

This is the most bios article I have ever read

Julie ;) December 11, 2009 4:48 pm (Pacific time)

I will say this in russian first to all them people that are supporting the parents: POJALUISTA NAUCHITES SPERVA PRAVELNO VOSPITAT SVOIX DETEI A NE PEREBIVAT DO POLY SMERTI... DETEI NE PLETKOI VOSPITIVAUT A LUBOVIU. XRISTOS SAM UMER ZA NAS, A NE UBIVAL NAS ZA NASHI GREXI. ESLI VI PRIEXALI V AMERIKI JIVITE PO PRAVELAM BLIN. Now in English lol... For all them people that are defending the parents, please learn how to discipline your kids first and how NOT TO beat them half to death. They will NOT BE DISCIPLINED, they will FEAR YOU, and turn out to be exactly what you don't want them to be ANYWAYS! Second of all, Jesus DIED for us for our sins (as a parent) He didn't BEAT US TO DEATH or ABUSE us because we didn't do something right... And last, if nothing works, YOU ARE IN AMERICA-RESPECT THE RULES. Also, these paretns have no heart what so ever...I hate people as such..and yes, I'm russian and sTILL Dont agree with your ugly child abusing rules...you guys are just full of yourselves trying to earn respect when you really have nothing. They should of given you more than 7. AND NO, THOSE KIDS ARE NOT DEMONS...poor things are suffering...

gina December 10, 2009 11:58 pm (Pacific time)

you know what MR>. EDITPOR??? we know that children are precious!!!!!!!!!! thats why the parents are trying so hard to get their children on the right path and to become good people. And thank you very much but i'm very aware i'm living in the 21st century.. God Bless YOU

john denver December 11, 2009 12:23 am (Pacific time)

Ukrainian christians look at life from their narrow religious lenses. no wonder they still wear those kosinkos over their head. They are selective in their interpretation of scripture. Anger and violence are to be avoided in the correction of children. What is the principle responsibility of the parent in regards to the children? If the children are going to eventually make their own choices and their own decisions in life, just like all human beings, then where do the parents fit in? The second part of Ephesians 6:4 gives the answer. It says, "...bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." "Nurture and admonition" refers to what you say to a child: what you teach them. The responsibility of a parent is to teach a child what is true and good about the various situations of life, and then the child will have all the information that is necessary to make the best decisions. Russian/ukrainian christians just put emphasis only on the rod. Parents are supposed to nurture their kids. If spanking helps why are so many Ukrainian christian child in prison? Come on Ukrainian community wake up and smell the roses there is something fundamentally wrong in your faith and teachings. You are just very "religious" your faith is like that of the pharises of the old, there is no life in it just "Bukvi". If you feel you are being persecuted for your faith here in America then go back to your derevnis, villages in the Ukraine.I have lived with Ukrainian christians who even beat up their wives, cheat the welfare and behave plainly un christian. so dont come to American and lecture us on morals.

kate December 10, 2009 11:38 pm (Pacific time)

Really???? Poor kids??? are you crazy? I don't know this family but i know that all of this is a big Huge lie. It is imposible that these parents would spank their children to the point where it's not spanking anymore its abuse. I was at school couple days ago and we had a guest speaker and he turned out to be a one of them people that makes a teenager think about who they truly are. they had a stack of questions that he asked the entire class and if it concerns you then you stand up. one of his questoins where.. "have you ever been spanked by your parents?" now in our class we only have two ukranians, this one kid and i... I was shocked to see how much kids stood up. The ENTIRE ClASS stood up including two of my instructors!!!!!!!!!! well actually not the entire class there was four people that sat sitting but imagine the amount of kids that are being discipled? I can garentee that some of theose parents actually BEAT their children and no one really cares to find out!!!!!!!. so the guest spearker then asked us all that stood up.." what is the up side of this?" and everyone said the same thing but in different words. Discipline!!!!!!!!! many gave examples of how the spanking have helped them become who they truly are and if not for their parents they would have been somewhere out in the streets or in jail. I couldn't believe my ears i was literally shocked to hear this form my instructor who is how a certified chef with alot of certifications-he said if it wasn't for his mom spanking him, he'd be in jail or dead. then he asked the kids that wheren't getting spanked what was the up side and you know what they said???? the up side is that you could do WHATEVER you plaese. POOR KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i have absolutely nothing to say to them but GOD HELP THEM. these teenage kids don't know what they want...i know that i would have left home and been GOD knows where if my parents wouldn't have sat and just talked to me even spanked me. i know my freshman year i was 15 and o man i wanted to go against everything my parents said just CUZ I WANTED TO, and no one can tell me otherwise. I just feel so sorry for these children after they have growen up ......kids you will regret this and not want to live after you realize what you have commmited. I personally wanted to disobey parents and whated they said to me can in to one ear and the same second came out the other. But when i realized what i'm doing i just sat and cried asking GOD for forgivness. Now i seek my dad just to spend every moment with him or my mom so they can tell me something that i would need to know later on in life and i THANK GOD everyday for my wonderful loving parents cuz i know that when they spanked me it was out of love for me not cuz they didnt love me....i just hope that GOd opens the eyes of these POOR children and make them realize that what they commmit now WILLL come BACK and bite them...its just time..and i'm sure they got plenty of that. KIDS just WIAT you WILL BE PUNISHED not form your parents but form the one and only ALMIGHTY GOD. God BLESS the parents i give my full support and sympathyt to you. I PRAY FOR YOU DAYLY ...may the LORD be with you through these hard times.

Editor: They have been convicted.

gina December 10, 2009 10:45 pm (Pacific time)

people here are having problems with russians\ukrainians spanking their children. Im from a 12 person family we are growing up not in luxary but in an envirorment of love. when i was younger my parents spanked me but when ever they did they always mentioned and explained why they did that and what was the reason. My parents always told me that when they spanked me they hurt inside more than i did. i believe them becasue when i got spanked i cried not from the hurt but from being sorry for what i did. When they spanked me i learned a lesson because i knew that if i do it again i would need to be discipleined again, this kept me from alot of mistakes in my life. Recently, my neighbor got arrested from punishing his daughter. The teacher noiced a bruise and brought her to the principle the principle then kicke in to action he called the authorities and they WITHOUT a parent, against her permission they undressed her and questioned her,the officers surrounded her and pressured her into answering. she later said that she was so scared that she just repeated whatever they made up. I love living in america, but i came here with a different purpose i came here becasue it was freedom of belifs and here the authorities are taking that away from us. Just like one person already commented that its not the fact that she cut her hair its the fact that she was disobiedent. She got punshied for it so she would learn from that. If you look at statistics you can quickly realize how much more bad america has turned with each new president they want something better but they never find it becasue they dont belive in God. It seems to me that in our high schools and other public schools there is so much bad kids becasue parents dont disicple their children. this is not written because im a ukrainian its written because it hurts to see these kids that were carried in a womb for 9 months and then cared for for so long, they later turn against their only protecters. those who loved them they put them down in a wink. May God bless these parents and grant them wisdom and strenght to go on furthere. Amen.

Editor: More of the same, where are your prayers for the kids? Why are you compelled to be on the side of cruel people who beat and abused the very people they gave birth to? I have so much sympathy for these kids, and you, their own community, does not. I swear it's like you're still living in the 1800's. It is sad that we go so far as Americans and are pulled back into a prehistoric gutter with this Ukrainian community that values what appear to be all the wrong things. We are raised as Americans to see children as precious, they are PEOPLE, they aren't property, so tell your "people" to keep their abusive hands to themselves.

veronika December 10, 2009 9:57 pm (Pacific time)

OMG WHAT A BS! I WAS RAISED IN RUSSIAN AND I AM THANKFUL TO MY MOTHER THE WAY SHE RAISED ME. LOOK AT THOSE AMERICAN KIDS WHO DOESNT GIVE A DAM ABOUT THEIR PARENTS. THE KOZLOV KIDS R GONA BE SO SORRY ONE DAY FOR NOT HAVING THEIR PARENTS AROUND! THIS BS IS GONA COME BACK TO THEM OR ALREADY DID. LET THE PARENTS GO AND RAISE THERE KIDS! I HAVE A FEELING THAT GOVERMENT MAKES MONEY ON SHIT LIKE THAT, TAKING KIDS AWAY AND PUTTING THEM IN FOSTER HOUSES, WHAT CAN U GIVE THEM>? GOOD LIFE? TRUE LOVE THAT ONLY A MOTHER OR A FATHER CAN GIVE THEM? THIS IS SO WRONG!

Editor: Why didn't this family accept the services of a free lawyer? Each and every opportunity to assist them was greeted with an obnoxious lack of respect, and that is no opinion. Perhaps people who flagrantly and falsely use the name of God to justify their child abuse didn't end up with a good lawyer. I don't think God has a lot of sympathy for people who systematically abuse children when they are aware of what pain is. The judge did nothing in any way unusual in a courtroom setting.

DAN S December 10, 2009 4:33 pm (Pacific time)

howcome the mom tells that the Bible is the Higher authority for them than the Government if the Bible tells in Romans chapter 13 to obey the Government??

---------- December 10, 2009 3:06 pm (Pacific time)

A lot of the stuff that you guys write, is NOT TRUE about this family. Why noone mentioned that the older boy was accused of stealing something at the store., that is why thier parents were not "beating them", they were trying to raise their children, and if kids do not understand their parents while they are speaking to them, thier parents need to spank them. I was a teenager, I came from Russia and I was not obeying my parents, I am so thankful to my parents right now, that they raised me and they spanked me, because I am an adult now and I have a kid and I understand how hard it is when children don't obey parents. Luydmila and Alexandr Kozlov did not "beat" thier children, they did what the bible said to do, to discipline. Kozlov's kids were just trying to show off and get a lot of attention. I know a lot of American families that smoke weed and do drugs, and physically abuse their children, they are not trying to raise them, they are actually abusing them,becasue they are high on drugs and why those parents never get arrested, why our smart judges and prosecuters never arrest those parents, and don't take thier kids away from them?????? I would call this DISCRIMINATION, YOU guys should look at other families who are really abusing their children and doing drugs. Look at the families that never spank thier children, those children grow up in jail and doing drugs, or leave thier parents at an early age. I can only say that , a lot of things that you write about this family and Lyudmila and Alexandr abusing thier children is NOT TRUE. I also want to say to these children, you kids will be punished from God by doing this to your parents who were trying to raise you., you will not understand it right now, but will understand later when you have your own kids. THE LAW should not interrupt and break families, it is NOT thier business. GOD gave them a family and wisdom to raise thier kids.

Johnathan December 9, 2009 1:15 pm (Pacific time)

I've seen beating in Ukrainian families. I tried to explain the difference between beating and spanking with some degree of success. This comes from trauma inflicted thru the poverty of Communism and the 70 years of tragic inhumane treatment of entire populations. The dire need for children to understand the consequences of not yielding to authority was accepted because if they didn’t learn from beatings they would certainly be shot by the government later. Parents saw clearly the better of the two outcomes for SEVERAL generations. Now these children here in the US have freedom and aren’t allowed to enjoy it because of their parents’ fear. This is a tragedy of justice and it reinforces the parents’ fear of authority. I agree with the conviction but I would ask for the court’s understanding and help in sending the right message. This is not blind abuse this abuse has a FACE that will not be erased until we address it properly.

Anonymous December 9, 2009 8:19 am (Pacific time)

what a bunch of bull...i came from a christian ukrainian family n my parents never have beaten us up with wire straps n dog switches!! nor have i ever seen a family do that 2 there kids. They may yell or spank them but not nessasarly beat them up with what these kids said. THese kids are just drawing attention to them, but when the time comes those kids will be crying 4 what they have done....

EDITOR: We are so pleased you were not beaten with straps and switches. It is unfortunate that all children are not so lucky.

+++++ December 7, 2009 7:20 pm (Pacific time)

Why all of you only about Russian or Ukrainians kids look how many american kids are in worst abuse ever and you dont want them?!!! That is DESCRIMINATION!!!!I know so many familys from that counry Its the best familys ever!!

Amanda December 6, 2009 12:36 am (Pacific time)

whichever one looks at religious sects,and the ones who practice such teachings, nothing good has ever come of it. We have laws in this country. These immigrants should be made aware, that child abuse is not tolerated, but prosecuted under law.

person December 5, 2009 8:51 pm (Pacific time)

TO EDITOR: sooooo....um...why didn't you post my comment, taking into account I gave you like 2 months to do it... I had a really good explanation in favor of the parents...I guess to good that you didn't even decide to put it up along with your sarcastic and bias comments...just one word for you: pathetic

Editor: I published so many cruel and nonsensical comments on this story, you should give us credit. But, this is a business and we don't approve or publish any comments that we don't see fit. So there you go.

Yuri Kidinkmi December 5, 2009 3:30 pm (Pacific time)

I love having been born in a country where not only foreigners can come here for a plane ticket and a sponsonr, and we'll pay the rest. Not only can you stay as long as you like, you don't even have to follow the law, God's or the everchanging ones in the CONSTITUTION. I wonder if I could go to Russia, say that I'm a Christian, break any law of theirs, and stand on their soil and tell them they have no business in my life. Russia, China, 2nd world, 3rd world, I guess I take for granted the fact that I am in MY country, following OUR rules, and have no inclination to go to another country. My country may have its flaws, but at least there are laws, and if you follow them, you have a 50/50 chance of getting through life without ending up on the wrong side of the law. I know that if I moved to the Ukraine, the first thing that I would purchase with my first welfare check, social security check, food stamp debit card, tax refund check after not paying taxes. Wait a second, that crap only is allowed here in the USA, where you don't even have to speak the language. Just come here, bring ALL your family, sick and the needy, we'll give you whatever you need, and if that's not enough, when YOU break one of OUR laws, we'll even give you a fighting chance in one of our lovely courtrooms. And if you can't afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you, free. ESPECIALLY if you don't speak any of the language from the new world you have decided to make your own. I just want to say that I'm glad to have you here. And the more people that come here from other countries with nothing but hope, hunger, disease, no respect for any law, and especially the idea that God wants you to personally repopulate this earth, stop and think. If you hate it here so bad, because of our silly laws, bad economy, and funny talk, go back to your WADKA and LARD

Anonymous December 4, 2009 10:16 pm (Pacific time)

Jury's virdic: GUILTY (should have gotten a lawyer) crazy.

The guy that made fun of the judge. December 4, 2009 3:09 pm (Pacific time)

NO ONE CAN DESTROY FAMILIES OF GOD.

Eugene December 4, 2009 2:39 pm (Pacific time)

Yana you`re so brainwashed... Just wait till you'll become a parent, if so... and remember your words...
Yana December 4, 2009 11:03 am (Pacific time)
I also come from a large Russian family of six children and yes, I have seen such "discipline." Although my Dad sometimes used a branch, he stopped after a couple of years here in America. One time, I stayed with my cousins when I was around 7 years old. But after one day, I called my Dad and I was sobbing because my Uncle turned out to be just like those parents. I was terrified. I even remember him picking up my cousin (who was the same age as me) and beating him upside down just because we were a little late for dinner. Then, he came and spanked me so hard I couldn't cry from hysterics. My Dad was pissed! I could definitely understand what those kids go through. I think spanking is necessary but using " wire straps, dog switches and rocks," come on, that is too far! Poor kids, they must be so terrified for coming out and telling on their parents. I am not surprised by a lot of people's support for the parents, most of them are probably Russian or Ukranian.

Editor: Yana, thanks for telling the truth about this huge problem in these households. I am sick of people like this one who apparently strongly endorse the criminal beating of otherwise defenseless kids. I always thought that people who stood up for child abuse were monsters, and that is how 99% of the population sees it. Children are not placed on this earth to abuse, and I am glad that these poor kids found a way out.

Yana December 4, 2009 11:03 am (Pacific time)

I also come from a large Russian family of six children and yes, I have seen such "discipline." Although my Dad sometimes used a branch, he stopped after a couple of years here in America. One time, I stayed with my cousins when I was around 7 years old. But after one day, I called my Dad and I was sobbing because my Uncle turned out to be just like those parents. I was terrified. I even remember him picking up my cousin (who was the same age as me) and beating him upside down just because we were a little late for dinner. Then, he came and spanked me so hard I couldn't cry from hysterics. My Dad was pissed! I could definitely understand what those kids go through. I think spanking is necessary but using " wire straps, dog switches and rocks," come on, that is too far! Poor kids, they must be so terrified for coming out and telling on their parents. I am not surprised by a lot of people's support for the parents, most of them are probably Russian or Ukranian.

Carmen December 3, 2009 9:00 pm (Pacific time)

I personally am very proud of these children. They had the courage to do what all abused children wish they could do and that is stand up for themselves and stop the abuse. I understand the importance of disciplining children, but what these people did was go too far. You pride yourselves on family and community, but your Russian community turned their backs on these children because they sout help. They tried to discredit these kids and even went as far as to call them demons. I hope and pray that the court system will make an example out of these people and they will be prosecuted to the full extend of the law. This will deter other immigrants from thinking they can come into this country and do as they please. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. If you don't like the laws in this country that pertain to the discipline of children then with all respect go back where you came from. This country has enough criminals and we don't need anymore!

freind December 3, 2009 5:01 pm (Pacific time)

what a lie these kids said the bigest lie ever

Anonymous November 30, 2009 8:19 pm (Pacific time)

B.S.

anonymous November 28, 2009 6:16 pm (Pacific time)

God is in control

COOL GUY November 28, 2009 6:13 pm (Pacific time)

God will punish you if you don't let them go.

COOL GUY November 28, 2009 6:11 pm (Pacific time)

GOD BLESS THE PERSECUTED!!!!

COOL GUY November 28, 2009 6:09 pm (Pacific time)

THE KOZLOVS ARE INNOCENT!LET THEM GO!THEY DID NOT DO ANYTHING BAD!!!THE PARENTS TRIED TO MAKE THEM GOOD CHRISTIAN CHILDREN!THIS IS THE CHILDREN'S FAULT.

Malina October 5, 2009 12:14 am (Pacific time)

Mala detey bili, i malo vospitivali, Ih Dresirovat nada i kogda gavarish im Prigat they should response How High?,...... No matter what kind of parents you have, you should respect them. In America most of the parents don't decepline their kids nor spank them. There for when their kids grow up, they flip their parents or curse them out.

Tarja Eva Karhu September 30, 2009 6:26 pm (Pacific time)

Mia, Alena is against spankings and (possibly) child abuse...and so am I; are you for it? If so, then you are just as sick.

Mia September 15, 2009 5:39 pm (Pacific time)

To Alena: How could You trush your family like that? Poor Your mom and dad! POOR You, Alena; that shows you are not thought important lessons in your life. when You will be parents sometime, you will reap what you saw.Christianity is not about keeping your hair long - That is about loving God , loving and obeying your parents; - if they don't want you to cut your hair while you are living in their home - don't do that -you will be more beautiful in sight of people and God!how could you tell public about problems of Your very own family! - Shame!

Jim September 14, 2009 2:32 pm (Pacific time)

Don't you understand MASONS are ruling this country now more than ever. Their low level members think they are Christians but advanced level masons know truth of what they are: representatives of the EVIL. True mason hates bible, God and everything Godly in every way he can. That is why the bible was taken off the schools, covered by all kinds of excuses! That is why so many laws that open way to people to grow in a way, do what you want! You want to chose to grow adulterer? Please! Family splitter? Please! Rotten inside out? Please! Because the masons can not truly feel in power unless they change the values system and conscience in people! That is why today if you foster your kids exactly as the bible said, you are a criminal! Because Christianity is outlawed in this country already, wake up people... That's a sad truth... You spanked your kid for what should, and you can't sleep at night? How perverted a mind can be... Let him on the way of death if you are not thinking what you are doing! Another thing I heard how American teacher, "church activist" and psychologist her self was teaching in church saying if your kid tends to do the bad stuff like drugs disorderly sex life, let him try the full taste of that, and then you will have him back. How perverted is this? She literally said that, without any pre, sub, ar after context! If young man gets a full taste of stupidity it is usually absolutely hard to make anything lucid out of him later in life. If the precious vase gets broken once, no matter how you glue it, it is never true vase again. I imagine my dad letting me try drugs! I could be doing them till now! may he be blessed he stood on guard and never let this happen!!! Or my dad anyhow knew I am about to do poor choices and engage in doubtful activity with girls, and let this happen? I could be today not married, but be dying in a hospital of aids and watched by a nurse to die. But my dad never let this happen, he watched me closely who i am going out with, and who my friends are because he knew life better than me. Thank to his strictest restrictions I am what i am now, and I know I could have ended up just like that 20 year old American who died of aids not too long ago. How many of them 20 years old Americans die of aids? and How many Russian immigrants do? practically none of Russians because Christian fostering is way better, if we do the fostering the pure American way, then we will have to count number of our kids dying of aids like the Americans do! Don't ever spank your kid, don't if you hate him! May a perverted mind get fixed, and blind eyes get open!

Tarja Eva Karhu September 4, 2009 4:12 pm (Pacific time)

Sorry about your childhood, Alena. Strangely enough, i can relate; my parents used to do the same thing to me...it didn't even help at all; in fact, it only really pissed me off even more.

alena September 1, 2009 2:14 pm (Pacific time)

this story reminds me so much of my childhood. my parents used to do the samething, especially the part about church. if we made one little move or peep we would get spanked when we got home from church. but luckly my parents finally stopped doing that after our church pastor found out what my parents were doing to us. he gave them a good lecture and so instead of spanking us my parents would punish us by making us do chores around the house.i think the kozlov parents need to find other ways to punish there children. but it is really sad that they separated a mother from a little baby. i used to get spanked for cutting my hair to and that did not help. i dont think cutting your hair will send you to hell.

Alex August 30, 2009 11:55 pm (Pacific time)

Who takes away a new born baby from their mother? Predators. If that happen to me I will battle to the death.

Ed August 24, 2009 10:55 pm (Pacific time)

I have not looked at your website for a while now, the way Editor is advocating kids without know or listening to two sides of the story, only listening to his own made propaganda is really offensive to me! Also as Editor is against showing pictures of kids, I do not mind showing you the pictures of the kids! Please respond to me with the reason why you would want to see the pictures of the kids. As I am not against you seeing the pictures of the kids, I am against you looking at the pictures of the kids and to go "hunting" after them or to hurt them. Because there are some "predators" around and I fear for the safety of these "famous" kids! I still love them very much, and unlike editor who is covering up their pictures only to protect his propaganda and to protect his lies, while I not giving you a link to protect these kids I love, even if they are bad. Also another reason why I am not posting a direct link is to protect the bandwidth of the website that has these pics. So please email me at: ukshokur@yahoo.com and please for that, I do not guarantee I will send you pictures as I fear for both the safety of the kids, and the bandwidth! I kind of disagree with Editor on one thing: designing website for 7 days a week and for 5years. Here is the reason if you were learning from scratch then it is enough to get master's degree in Software engineering because it is 1825 days of doing that! Well, may be you did have this business for this long, not designing the website! Please post if you_EDITOR_DO NOT MIND_IF NOT_I WILL_BE_STILL_FINE!

Tarja Eva Karhu August 16, 2009 4:28 pm (Pacific time)

Wow, SARGE, that's really awful!

Russ August 16, 2009 12:53 am (Pacific time)

Ah reporters and there stories, write down what's word for word and not add your own words to grab peoples attention and turn a fly into an elephant, and some people just over react on the child abuse case, you don't know the facts you just know what the reporter wrote down, and you people who are so against child abuse and against the parents, how come I don't see a reply from you guys when someone proves there point right? The only reply's I see is when someone who knows the family and the kids and what the kids do and why they want to run away, you guys sound as if you might have screaming matches with your kids at home. And who takes away a new born from there mother? Take the other kids away but keep the new born with the mom. What would you do if someone took your week old child from you, you would raise hell to get it back, and people find out the facts before you speak, Mr. Obama made that same mistake and got the cops out raged at him. To you reporters write down the facts first and then what you don't know as a fact write it as if the feds believe they did something.

SARGE August 14, 2009 9:36 pm (Pacific time)

well ill tell ya one thing, america changed...and not into good way. back then in america christian life was more strict, parents punished their kids if they did something bad. and there was no law against. now there is...so yea ppl are more free now to do more stupid stuff. the law helps them.

Tarja Eva Karhu August 13, 2009 6:51 pm (Pacific time)

As or you, Anuta (and everyone else who believe in corporal punishment), you really need a reality check. If you can't handle kids, then you should've kept your legs closed. These kids did not deserve to be beaten at all. How dare you imply that. May God help your soul, Anuta. How do you sleep at night?

Tarja Eva Karhu August 13, 2009 6:46 pm (Pacific time)

I agree with Lori. Child abuse of any kind is not okay at all...and people who support those o-called parents and who condone what those "parents" did to their kids really need life and a reality check. Now take a look at what I went through; my parents used to hit me very often...and did this really "correct" my behavior and clean up my act? Heck no, that only really pissed me off (and still pisses me off to this day) even more! I'm getting really sick and tired of parents believing in corporal punishment and hearing them say that what they do doesn't hurt any children!

Lori August 11, 2009 4:27 pm (Pacific time)

Child abuse in any form cannot be tolerated. This is not the Ukraine. This is America. We do not condone hurting children with belts and cords. ESPECIALLY IN THE NAME OF GOD. Says the Lord's Prayer for these people.

me August 10, 2009 7:18 pm (Pacific time)

People do you see God's help? We can Already see Gods help because both of the parents are not in jail arleady! With Gods help the government's plans are braking apart already and they will continue because we are all praying God and he is a Lord of the Lords and King of the Kings and he can do anything he wants.
But for the Government: Dont be so surprised when bad things will happen to United States because thats what you get for destroying familys... everyone will get he's punishment.
and how come Americans say Gods bless America and you dont want to listen to His words and do what He tells you..but believe me Everything will be done by the planns of God.
and its just funny how people and gov. is so surprised when things such as 911, airpalane crash etc happens and people are like : OHHH MY Gosh! Why did it happen? Why did we deserve it? Why did it happen to us? etc....
Why? because you are going against God's words!
(Editor be honest and post all the postings.. let people see the truth and dont post the one that you like)

Editor: I have spent five years- seven days a week building and developing Salem-News.com and if I decide to not post a comment it is my business. Be glad this unique environment for comments exists and be advised that most comments are approved whether I like them or not.

??? August 9, 2009 10:10 am (Pacific time)

are kids back to their family???

just fine August 8, 2009 3:24 am (Pacific time)

I am a Ukrainian-American, Baptist Christian. I've lived in this country since my early childhood with both my parents and 3 siblings. I am now an adult, married with kids. This story is extremly disturbing to me but more than that, the comments that are being posted by our community are just scarry. I was spanked like many other children are reguardless of nationality, race or riligion. I turned out just fine, thank you. Furthermore I love my parents to death. Grant it I was spanked maybe 2 or 3 times (altogather not every day). But the spankings did wonders for me because they were a last resort. I was affraid of them but I loved and listened to my parents not becouse of them but because they actually took time to spend with me doing thing I liked and they approved of and also tought me by talking and listening to me. I just don't understand, judging from the comments posted by people that know the family, if the children were constantly "disaplaned", why would they steal or lie. Maybe this kind of disaplane isn't working? I feel very sad for this family and hope that everything turns out well for both the parents and the children. For everybody who is going to the extreme in regards to punishing children and using the Bible as an excuse, THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS THAT GOD PUNISHES THOSE WHO HE LOVES. NOW THINK ABOUT IT, IF GOD PUNISHED US FOR EVERY MISTAKE OR MISSTEP WE'D ALL BE DEAD OR REALLY MESSED UP!!!

elijah August 7, 2009 10:32 am (Pacific time)

we can know see that God is doing his work, we need to pray to God thats kid will be given back to parents, pray to God

Boris Burutto August 6, 2009 6:23 pm (Pacific time)

Glory to God!!!

kravchukfamily.com August 6, 2009 2:04 pm (Pacific time)

The parents are free now! August 06, 2009.

S.N.V August 6, 2009 2:42 pm (Pacific time)

Pain… it is not a very good feeling… is it? How about hunger? No that’s not a good feeling either… which one is a better way of punishment? Most Ukrainian parents would give a spanking to a child who disobeys his parents, while many American parents would leave the child without supper or lunch. While the pain/memory of a spanking goes away in ten minutes, the hunger does not go away until you eat; which causes many American children to start stealing at a very young age. I am not saying that other cultures don’t steal, but when you discipline your child with hunger he has no choice but to go and steal something from the kitchen cabinet, so you yourself are involved in teaching him how to steal. If you say that your parents never disciplined “abused” you then look at your life, have you remained sexually abstinent? Have you never drunk alcohol? Have you never smoked? Have you never done drugs? Have you never stolen? Or have your brothers and sisters never done any of these things? These are the things that parents usually punish their kids for, I remember my parents spanked me for stealing money from them when I was a young child and after that I never stole again. So pain does help, now if my parents would have left me without supper I would have probably stolen something from the kitchen cabinet. See what I am saying. It is not abuse, it is disciplination. Actually I don’t know what people here are saying about Christians and Ukrainians/Russians. I know a few Christian and unchristian American families who spank their children for discipline. Not only American people but also Mexican, and many other cultures spank children for discipline. I personally don’t agree with abuse, but what you think is abuse is probably only the basic disciplinary actions of a parent with a rebellious teenager. If the parents would have never disciplined them I think that by now they would be in the America’s Most Wanted list. If with disciplination they have already been under house arrest then without it they would most likely be spending most of their life in jail.

God is in control! Not u! August 5, 2009 9:27 pm (Pacific time)

People there is no poing arguing. You need to understand that EVERYTHING IS IN GODS HANDS. WHatever is HIS WILL thats what will happen.We (people) always forget that God made us and He is stronger then us and smarter EVERYTHING is in His hands. If you are either on parents side or kids. JUST PRAY and whatever is Gods Will That Is What Will Happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GoD Bless!

Update on case/hearing August 5, 2009 1:28 pm (Pacific time)

http://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=J0andDate=20090804andCategory=PHOTOandArtNo=908040803andRef=PHandParams=Itemnr=13

Rusel August 5, 2009 12:58 pm (Pacific time)

I just wanted to say that there is a big difference between child abuse and spanking. I doubt that those parents were "beating"(there is also a difference between beating and spanking) their kids with wire straps, dog switches, and rocks. If they did, than yes, that is child abuse. I hope they didn't. Peace.

namik August 4, 2009 3:11 pm (Pacific time)

When we raise a family it is wise to pray everyday for the patience and knowledge of how to discipline our children. It is true we are all humans we have lost our temper once and blown it somewhere twice, but we are all trying. The Lord knows the parents hearts and knows the hearts of the children. Anyone that cries in repentance to Him he will not forsake. maybe the parents are rethinking what went wrong; how it got to the point where the children are running from home and hating everyone around maybe the children acknowledge that they have lied somewhere and realize that they have separated their own family and are pleading to be together again. May God hear those who are in prayer for the whole family.

Anonymous August 4, 2009 2:45 pm (Pacific time)

America is becoming a communist state!!!!!!!!!!

ANONYMOUS August 3, 2009 10:41 pm (Pacific time)

First of, I myself grew up in a Ukrainian home. I am 17, and not too long ago I also went through the stage of puberty.. Let me REMIND all of you of something.. teenagers, when we grow up, we think we are ALWAYS right. no matter what parents say.. and when parents happen to disagree with us, makes us mad and act really hatefully to our parents.. No 13 or 14 year olds know what is best for them! All the things that they probably have said was out of hate and anger towards their parents. IM not saying child abuse is right, but before coming with conclusions of how the parents "beat" their children, Hear the parents out! Talk to people who knew them and their kids, talk to their neighbors. You guys just cant assume things are right because some angry and selfish teen said!! I think its crazy also to take a 6 DAY OLD INFANT away from its mother!!!! What kind of people are you guys?! Put yourself in the mothers position.. what if your child would get taken away.. I personally dont know this family, but i know one thing, they came to America to have a better life. However, living in America only ruined their life!! I have a hard time believing these kids. You guys need to investigate more before putting people in jail and taking their kids away.. LOOk around you! many many people with kids dont treat them right, why punish the ones that are trying to help their kids on the right path of life... We are praying for that family..

... August 3, 2009 6:57 pm (Pacific time)

These kids hated their parents, I went to camp with them and they went against everything their parents taught them, the girl said she wanted to kill her mom. Just because their family is not rich and won't get the kids what they want the kids decided to do horrible things, the boy SHOPLIFTED and expected not to be punished...

visitor August 3, 2009 6:52 pm (Pacific time)

As a Russian-American, I sympathize with both sides. If the children were indeed abused (with sticks, rocks, etc), then the parents do deserve to have their children taken away from them. The protective (and perhaps somewhat hysterical) reaction of the Ukranian/Russian community is to be expected. Because of their experience Communist Russia, with a consistently corrupt government, it is only instinctive to distrust the government and assume persecution. There is definitely more to the story, but both sides need to be more understanding of one another.

ng August 3, 2009 10:33 am (Pacific time)

Child abuse is wrong even if you claim it is your religious belief to do that. If these parents are forcing their children to go to church and submit to all the rules they come up with, their children will never respect them and instead will develop disgust towards church and God. If these parents want to raise good and moral Christian children, they need to do it with love, just like Jesus did. Also, if these particular parents are having so much trouble with their older kids, why are they having more children? to the EDITOR: Thank you for trying to show all these ignorant people how serious child abuse it.

Anonymous August 3, 2009 6:25 am (Pacific time)

"Editor: You know that all sounds really strange. You refuse to believe police evidence and you advocate for people who were probably pretty terrible toward their children. Do you think picking on little people is a good thing? Are you a bully toward people smaller than you? I personally have a real problem with people who abuse kids and I am just sickened by this advocacy of people who are tied to such a serious case. I'm just wondering, do you illegally beat and abuse children also?"

Excuse me?! Aren't reporters only supposed to "bring the story to people the way it REALLY is"? Why in the world are you sitting here defending one side of the story? You have no right to do that! Absolutely NONE! it's called biased reporting and you do it in the most obvious way. There have yet to be court hearings on this case and you're already talking about evidence.

Editor: Everything I write is a response; having comments on a story changes the dynamics.

Anonymous August 2, 2009 9:29 pm (Pacific time)

EDITOR: You have nothing else to do but waste your time. WOW how SAD...I feel bad for u wait oh no I DONT@

Editor: I am not the story, remember? You choose to leave your thoughts on a story I am responsible for, that's about all there is to it. I can't make people understand that child abuse is wrong if they refuse to listen.

Tarja Eva Karhu August 2, 2009 8:18 pm (Pacific time)

Katy, you are a heartless idiot! How's that for "comedy"?!

I hate it when dummies come here just to type down mindless flames, like "Hey, I know this person", "I know this guy", "this lady is my best friend", "Those kids deserved what they got", "You don't know thewm", "they is nice", "they are good, nice, wonderful people", "they are the best parents you'll ever meet", "shut up if you don't know what you're talking about", "she a good mama", "he a good daddy, blah blah blah"...trust me, i would really be disgusted if I ever knew a person online. It is not something I would ever brag about.

To those stupid heartless child haters who support those so-called parents, how can you guys say that?! How could those kids be "evil"?! Kids are "evil" only to sick bastards who shouldn't have had them in the first place.

My heart goes out to the kids and I hope they're in a safe place now. As for those subhumans for parents, I hope they get what's coming to them.

julz August 2, 2009 5:26 pm (Pacific time)

oh and what are the kids protected from there parents that are looked up for nothing or what?

julz August 2, 2009 5:25 pm (Pacific time)

ok mr. editor wat protection do the kids need they had it when they were a family and now they lost it cause they lied to the police ok i know because im cusins with them and i think i know. and i dont thinks u should tell me that i need help i think ur the one who needs it ok u are just plain rude and mean to the ppl of ukraine and russian and u are being a rassist so i think ur the one who needs help and i feel really bad for the kids that are around u not me caus eu shouldnt worry about me ok! thanks

julz August 2, 2009 1:49 pm (Pacific time)

ok if the kids were betten and have scares how come the polic edost show them and how come they only put the parents picture like they did a horrible crime but theres no picture of the kids? thats just so messed up

Editor: Because, person who doesn't know the first thing about U.S. law, the children are protected because they are under age. Obviously based on this, they need all the protection they can get. You all have Oregon residents fairly horrified at your support of this cruelty. How ridiculous to suggest that the children's images should be shown. Grade A bad idea- that will never happen on our watch. I hope you get help in your lifetime and in the meanwhile, God bless and watch over any kids you are around, because I am worried about them.

Faith August 2, 2009 12:42 pm (Pacific time)

I am relieved to see this proletariat couple behind the bars. According to the police some of the kids have bruises and physical signs of abuse. The kids are not making this up. While beating your kids is still a practice in Ukraine (common practice in proletariat families and among the poorly educated), this is America, a country that will protect the ones that can't defend themselves. If parents resort to physical punishment they fail as parents. Quoting Old Testament to justify that kind of actions is laughable.

just me August 1, 2009 1:55 pm (Pacific time)

Hye people listen please: you say let these children enjoy their life! let them live their lifes! Parents who love their children they will always punish their children because they love them and they want them to be good kids and so when they grow up they will be serious people and not like these who wonder around the streets with their pants down and sooner or later.. some day will get locked up in jail. So people.. is that what you want your kids to be???? have fun, enjoy their lifes and do what ever they want????

Anonymous August 1, 2009 11:35 am (Pacific time)

That I know for sure: news info always have some false info in any situation. EVERYONE HAS TO WORK HARD TO GIVE THAT INFANT BACK TO PARENTS - SHE IS THE MOTHER, SHE NEEDS TO BE WITH THAT WEEK OLD BABY; AND HER BABY NEEDS ONLY THE MOTHER!!! GOD WILL BLESS ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WORK HARD TO BRING ALL THE KIDS BACK TO THEIR PARENTS. NO ONE WILL EVER LOVE THESE KIDS MORE THEN THEIR PARENTS. GOD WILL NOT BLESS ALL THESE, WHO ARE BREAKING THAT FAMILY. PEOPLE, FEAR GOD! that poster is WRONGLY TRANSLATED-another lie : - is what it says!!!

against child abuse August 1, 2009 2:46 pm (Pacific time)

it was not how it sounds on tv, on tv it sounds like kids were dying from abuse and called for help, NO news people they always make stories from fly to elephant, thats their business they make money like that, AND no it was not how it sounds, i heard this story some other kids told this 3 older kids that its fun to go to custody, you can ask anything you want and they are going to buy for you, so this kids thought to do this too, so they went and called cops and made up stories, thats how this all happened, now ofcourse them all kids want to go home but you cant do anything,

Daniel August 1, 2009 12:40 pm (Pacific time)

Are the parents the personification of evil or innocent ? Let us see what FACTS are presented at trial ! The police have been know to fabricate , some parents have been shown to be cruel . Hopefully all the facts will come out as to the real truth . I do not know any of the involved parties . The supporters may be totally delusional or may be speaking the truth . The same with the group that wants their scalp . Conviction or innocence should be determined AFTER trial not before ! What is the point of courts if you decide before all the information is known ? If proven to be guilty their punishment will and should be severe , if innocent they should sue social services and the police . I will wait till after the trial to see what happens .

Not a suporter of abuse July 31, 2009 12:56 pm (Pacific time)

OK where should I begin? Hmm lets see, first of all you horrible people who blindly support the parents just because that’s what you were brain washed to do, seriously open your eyes to facts and evidence. I am more then happy that those kids had the courage to free them selves and call for help. Many kids growing up in such households don’t have the courage to do what they did. I can say I am REALLY grateful that this country has laws to protect those children. Also it’s just terrible how you people can be so heartless and blind and call those kids evil. Sure they are teenagers and they are going through that difficult stage, but their parents didn’t make that any easier for them. Also when you call those kids ‘evil’ does it mean you think the same about your kids? How are they different? I hope everything works out for best and those parents understand that kids need love and care and abuse doesn’t reflect those feelings toward them.

me August 1, 2009 11:28 am (Pacific time)

That I know for sure: news info always have some false info in any situation. EVERYONE HAS TO WORK HARD TO GIVE THAT INFANT BACK TO PARENTS - SHE IS THE MOTHER, SHE NEEDS TO BE WITH THAT WEEK OLD BABY; AND HER BABY NEEDS ONLY THE MOTHER!!! GOD WILL BLESS ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WORK HARD TO BRING ALL THE KIDS BACK TO THEIR PARENTS. NO ONE WILL EVER LOVE THESE KIDS MORE THEN THEIR PARENTS.
GOD WILL NOT BLESS ALL THESE, WHO ARE BREAKING THAT FAMILY.
PEOPLE, FEAR GOD!

Editor: You know that all sounds really strange. You refuse to believe police evidence and you advocate for people who were probably pretty terrible toward their children. Do you think picking on little people is a good thing? Are you a bully toward people smaller than you? I personally have a real problem with people who abuse kids and I am just sickened by this advocacy of people who are tied to such a serious case. I'm just wondering, do you illegally beat and abuse children also?

Anonymous August 1, 2009 8:41 am (Pacific time)

Who would ever throw rock on their kids ? ? ? This is not true !!! PROPAGANDA

Ed August 1, 2009 8:36 am (Pacific time)

Here is what I have to say about:"...Now information is coming forward about these poor kids being beaten with wires and having scars all over their bodies? That makes these parents sound like something very different from the wonderful Christian people described in these comments. I am shocked that the community would rally behind such people. It certainly takes a lot of nerve." The information is coming forward the only thing is the source, where is the information coming from? You know that there are bad and good sources of information? There are always only 2 sources for information: 1. GOD-truthful words, everlasting power, divine right! 2. devil-which says half lies to cause suffering to God's people just like to Job in the Bible! 3. The information from devil and you the world now days is coming to the end because we are listening to devils information and believing it, too! Here is what I hope will happen soon:"...the accuser of our bethern(brothers) is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." He is accusing Christians before people too and he is doing it through your words! I am right-THE EVERLASTING GOD is backing me with his words! God Bless the parents! Please post this comment, if you do not you still read it, this is so you know what God's opinion is about your words. You may have no excuse for what you are writing on before the HOLY JUDGE! GOD IS THE LORD! GOD RULES! AMEN!!!! Lord Please COME!!!!

To People August 1, 2009 8:35 am (Pacific time)

they are not abusing their kids!!! they are just trying to set them on the right path in life. i hope the police will set them free and give their kids back to them. prey for them everyone..... Also, aren't the kids at the age of going through puberty? how could the police believe teenagers without proper investigation. "someday these kids will regret what they have done, because there is nothing that can replace the love this father a mother provided them!!!" set them free!!!... the youngest baby needs its mothers love. imagine yourself being separated from you week old baby because your oldest is going through puberty and does something such as these did. the poor mother. i can imagine the parents broken heart.

Liliya July 31, 2009 6:54 pm (Pacific time)

i am very shoked but i think that parents should not be allowed to see there kids any more. They should get arrested and let kids enjoy there lifes. The kids have rights to and everyone has kids but they dont do that. Everyone sometimes get mad on what kids actions are but not to the way these parents did!!!!!

Not a suporter of abuse July 31, 2009 2:40 pm (Pacific time)

Me July 31, 2009 10:16 am (Pacific time)

Everybody know that our country not about a lows, but about the money. No matter what crime you submit, but matter how much money you have. If they have enough money pay to their lawyer they will set free with no doubt.

katy July 30, 2009 5:51 pm (Pacific time)

funny

Shura July 30, 2009 6:37 pm (Pacific time)

I grew up with Ludmila.I dont bealive in any single world what this mediya sad about them. IT IS ALL Lies!!! Ludmila and her husband Alex they are very good,modest,ownest,loyal cristian people!!!

Lori July 30, 2009 5:24 pm (Pacific time)

Horrible Horrible, just because you have children, does not make you a good parent. This abuse is WRONG. Defining abuse in the USA is different apparently than defining abuse in the Ukraine. It seems time the parents learn the rules of living in a civilized society.

Helen July 30, 2009 2:07 pm (Pacific time)

Ms or Mr Editor. I`am strongly disagree with child abused, and I know it was NO abused in this family, but if you would know this kids and their parent personal you wouldn't say that their parent had abused them. These kids doesn't like anyone but themselves.

P July 30, 2009 2:02 pm (Pacific time)

There seems to be alot of stupidity floating around the comment sections for this article. It seems pretty clear to me that there had to be some kind of evidence of abuse for the police to take action. The police will not suggest that children are removed from a household unless they are able to provide some sort of evidence suggesting abuse of the minors. If these kids were just begging for attention as some of you narrowminded supporters of child abuse would like to believe, i find it hard to believe that the state would have taken custody of them. Please open yours eyes.... The facts in this case are very obvious. If you still think that the parents are right in their actions you need to leave this country. In america you have the right to personal freedoms as long as they do not restrict the freedoms of others. If you want to be able to abuse children and support those who do there are plenty of eastern block countires to live in, or better yet move to thailand and invest yourself in the child sex market. You feel so strongly about abusing children you really should go invest you time and money in your cause, and leave those of us who believe child abuse, being sexual or physical, is wrong.

Helen July 30, 2009 1:47 pm (Pacific time)

Sorry for adding the same post, I thought my post wasn't sent

Irina July 30, 2009 1:14 pm (Pacific time)

I wouldn't believe much from the articles, untill full investigation takes place. Just a few months ago children were taken away from a Russian family. CPS had lots of false information that was brought to court against them. After the investigation, all charges were dropped, kids given back to parents. Just depends if you get an honest person to write up a report, or someone who is not afraid of God. Don't get me wrong, I am against abusing children. I have 5 of mine own, and would give my life for each one of them!! I am for the truth, and most of the time, its not on these articles.

tasha July 30, 2009 1:13 pm (Pacific time)

Honestly, I think this case is very lame. Here is a family with kids going through puberty, or whatever... Here is this 14 year-old boy who has been involved with the police because he wants some "adventure" in his life. His parents are religious, and I guess he doesn't like it, so... he decides to run away from home, but he doesn't have anywhere to go. So, as smart as these young fellows come, he talks his sisters into a plot against his parents. #1, he won’t have to be with his family who he doesn't like #2, he will have adventure #3, the government will pay for his home #4, hey he will also be all over the web! :D #5, he has freedom now, do all u wish, right? Hmm… not for long buddy, there comes an end to every adventure in life. Honestly this case seems very odd to me, no one is against the children at all, BECAUSE they are in the comfort of SoMe home, The Ukrainians who know this family and are leaving comments that are for the parents have a reason to be for the parents, they are not in the comfort of their homes anymore- they do not know what will happen to their babies- This is honestly very ridiculous! And if there is not enough work for people out there... please don't use your time separating families, go help the HOMELESS or something!!! You know kids, you been them, as soon as they start a tale, there is usually no ending! I'm sure the kids got spankings, but rocks! ROFL! Are you kidding me!!! That’s just ridiculous!!!

Alex July 30, 2009 12:55 pm (Pacific time)

Right now im at the state Capitol. I came here all the way from Portland just to see this! There are Slavic people there (about 70 people) singing and praying in front of the state capitol.Just now a journalist came) maybe later ill post a picture if i can.

Olga July 30, 2009 12:42 pm (Pacific time)

I'm Ukrainian and a Christian as well. I just had my first baby. This story is very difficult for me to read. I'm not sure who to believe- the parents, the kids, the news, the police or the church. And honestly, I'm not ready to take sides. I guess I'm just here to say that not all Russians/Ukrainians beat their kids. And not all Christians beat their kids. I grew up in a Russian and Christian household. We have 4 kids in the family. Yes, we were spanked when we disobeyed our parents; both in the Ukraine and while living in the US. Would I say that our parents ever "beat" us??? NO WAY! My parents always gave us warnings when we were doing something wrong and before ever spanking us, they always made sure that we understood why we're getting punished and that they love us. I never had any doubt in my mind whether or not my parents love me. The result? 3 of us are happily married and have 1 child each and the fourth is my brother who is now 16 years old. None of us had a "rebellious" teenage stage, nor did we doubt our parents love. In fact, while we were teenagers we actually ENJOYED spending time with our family. The Bible doesn't teach to beat your children. It teaches to discipline them and love them. When it comes to raising my kids, yes I will spank them when they disobey. With God's help, my husband and I will raise our kids for His glory and with His love. I hope my comment helps people understand that being Russian/Ukrainian doesn't mean that you abuse your children; neither does being a Christian. Now whether these parents really abused their children or the kids are lying- who am I to say? I think only God knows the truth and I just pray that He brings it to justice.

Helen July 30, 2009 10:20 am (Pacific time)

These EVIL kids, who want to live on they own rules, and DO evil stuff!!!! Of course their parents did not let them do whatever they want to do. Some people called them Kids...13, 14 and 15. Its NO surprise for anyone that many Kids in this young age have a sex, get pregnant and their parents CAN NOT do anything because of the LAW(parents scared of their own kids) If you break the LAW in the State you live in, you going to be punished by the law of state(different state have a different LAWS)the same way in the family laws is different,some families let their kids do what aver they want to do,but other families are very strict, and Kids should accepted their families law and obey their parents, because the parents has fully responsibility of their kids before they turn eighteen. All kids are different, some kids understand when you talk to them, but other kids needs to be punished. If these parents didn`t care they wouldn`t punished their kids. These EVIL KIDS did evil things to their LOVING parent, when they grownup they going to get PAY back, but a LOT off worst.

Helen July 30, 2009 10:35 am (Pacific time)

These EVIL kids, who want to live on they own rules, and DO evil stuff!!!! Of course their parents did not let them do whatever they want to do.
Some people called them Kids...13, 14 and 15. Its NO surprise for anyone that many Kids in this young age have a sex, get pregnant and their parents CAN NOT do anything because of the LAW(parents scared of their own kids)
If you break the LAW in the State you live in, you going to be punished by the law of state(different state have a different LAWS)the same way in the family laws is different,some families let their kids do what aver they want to do,but other families are very strict, and Kids should accepted their families law and obey their parents, because the parents has fully responsibility of their kids before they turn eighteen. All kids are different, some kids understand when you talk to them, but other kids needs to be punished. If these parents didnt care they wouldnt punished their kids.
These EVIL KIDS did evil things to their LOVING parent, when they grownup they going to get PAY back, but a LOT off worst.

Editor: The evil in this story is the abuse of the kids and people that stick up for parents who would do such things. There is no morality in your point of view, just stubborn advocacy for abuse. All people here see the same thing except people in your church. Think about it.

Anonymous July 30, 2009 9:48 am (Pacific time)

Right on Vic. Simply lousy, lousy parents. God knows!

Julie's turn July 30, 2009 9:47 am (Pacific time)

Being a parent gives no one the automatic right to punish children without limitation, and in America you will be held accountable by the law if you cross that line. Why weren't these parents aware of our laws before deciding to come here and raise children? It's quite arrogant to go to another country and break the law, and be angry they got caught! Why hasn't the church here helped them transition with parental counseling, knowing the history of parenting problems in their home country? I'm sure these parents were also beaten as kids, and had too much "respect" for their own parents to think or speak against them. So now it's all they know. Classic child abuse cycle. It's just not the way things are done in a free and educated country. We cherish our children, and strive to protect them from harm. Good parents have skills, and raise children without hitting them. Educate yourselves. I am sorry so many people here in Salem are defending abuse, it means they were (or are) victims too. It's not ok to hit people. It's not ok to hit your kids. It's not ok for someone to hit you. Abuse isn't discipline, it's lazy. Parenting needs to be a compulsary course in school, it could save us millions!

Vic July 30, 2009 6:32 am (Pacific time)

Any parent that thinks they have to beat their kids is a lousy parent. And to you fools trying to use religion to justify child abuse...heres what Jesus said about child abusers.."it would be better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he be cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." Luke 17:2 Funny that I was able to raise three chidren from infancy to adulthood and didnt have to beat them...and they all turned out great. You parents who abuse yur children should be beaten yourselves. Trying to use the God of Love to justify your hate and your cruelty is insane.

julz July 29, 2009 6:23 pm (Pacific time)

ok i think that all of this is messed up because the parents loved there kids and yea they spanked them but not abused them and hit them with rocks that is just messed up and if the kids say that the parents were beatting them ever since they came to america for 6/7 years how come they never say that the paertnte abused them in ukraine...bbecause thats all not true and the kids are in an age were ur imbarassed of ur parents and stuff i know cause im 14 my self and i know how it feels but i dont go and make up lies about my parents. the kids just dont have a heart and they dont love anyone, but themselfs.lets just pray for them and hope they get back together!

Anuta July 29, 2009 11:38 pm (Pacific time)

I think that this story is stupid! They are great people! God give mercy on them! Yeah she hit her daughter, she didn't try to kill her!! She deserved it, I look at the american's, their discipline is so crappy all they do is scream their heads off until they loose their voice, ground kids for weeks, no TV no computer etc, how stupid do you have to be? i m sorry! and then their kids grow up and do drugs become alcoholic, why? because they weren't taught any better! I am glad that I got spanked couple times by my parents back in Russia, because now that i think about it, it did make me better! Some Christians even pray before they do it. I don't blame them, Government or who ever should understand that its way different culture we are all taught differently, but once again if you spank your child , it doesn't mean that you are killing him or her! God knows better what to do. He will help and he will do whats better for them. But taking so much kids away from their parents, who is going to teach them life, who will take them to church and bring them to God? no one accept their parents! Do they preach at foster homes? highly doubt! I encourage all the Christians to pray for them and fast for the family! God bless all of you guys, and God please show the people whats right! Dear God put wisdom in those heads that will be there at court the judge, give him your knowledge and your mercy, teach them all how to love. Amin.

Люба Сак. July 29, 2009 7:28 pm (Pacific time)

я сестра Людмилы Козловой для нас это очень больно и не понятно почему так все произошло но мы верим что Бог не допустит сверх сил. Просим молитесь за эту семью и ходатайствуйте перед правителиством что бы их выпустили и вернули детей

Editor: Translatikon via Babelfish: I the sister of Ludmila [Kozlovoy] for us this very painfully and not understandably why so all occurred but we we believe that god it will not allow over the forces. We request you pray for this family you solicit before [pravitelistvom] that them they let out and they returned the children

American July 29, 2009 3:39 pm (Pacific time)

To: Tim King, well so far you're proud that you went to the Afganistan, and you sayd that Afgan people told you about Russian what they did while been in there.How come you dont write the truth about our troops what they did to the Irake prisoners ? like hiting and sex abusing ? so you're a popular journalist because you went to Afgan, but there is a very little truth that you cover anyway, in youre mind only whow much money you're goin to make.

Editor (Tim King) Dude, I am glad that I was able to spend two months in Afghanistan and I do know how they feel about the Russian. Of course there are always, in any group, a mixture of good and bad people. But you think I don't tell a true story about how Americans treat Iraqi's? Read this article about my witnessing detainee abuse: A Disturbing Night in Iraq: Witnessing the Abuse of 'Insurgent' PrisonersTim King Salem-News.com

Think with your brains July 29, 2009 2:55 pm (Pacific time)

YOutube video: Parents beating their kids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5jlrxcpkI

Daniel Johnson July 29, 2009 1:32 pm (Pacific time)

Kristy: If you can't be constructive, then do us all a favor and withdraw.

Ed July 29, 2009 1:20 pm (Pacific time)

To editor: Like I already said I am 16 years old! Been a close fried/relative of this family, who do you think I would rather side with my peers or someone who is older then me and who is abusing my peers? I am not siding in this case with my peers only because I know the real side of the story? Do you know what a bad kid means? Do you know what it means to spank vs. abusing children? Who will you believe more the hundreds and thousands of close relatives, friends, neighbors, coworkers, even kids peers or the media and couple "investigators" which are lying? Who do you think has more chances to be provocative? The government is provocation this?! Are all of us here Russian folks? No, my American friends are praying about the parents too! Look, who are you going to believe couple of "witnesses" and investigators or you will believe hundreds and thousands of people who know them, are their relatives, kids peers, parents peers. Who do you think is more likely to lie? If you believe the truthful side then why are you posting nasty comments? Then why are yo u posting lies, for a publishings, comments? If you do believe the wrong side then I am not surprised, media has to believe the wrong side. That is the government's job! That is what happened in the USSR! Only when in USSR American s were trying to help here you are persecuting us! Also I am not surprised to learn that no matter how many witnesses step against the lie, the Editor and the media is still writing lies?! Because the media's job is to make people believe the propaganda and Tim King you are doing a great job. Tim King, believe us we, the witnesses know more then you, the investigators, the persecutors, the media...etc because I am their peers and know the kids and parents WAAAAAAAAAY better then you! If you think that we are all going against the law, and you want to persecute all us to change our minds! God Bless you on that and your coworkers! God will help us and your plans will not work out! If you are writing lies, think AGAIN~!

Ed July 29, 2009 1:03 pm (Pacific time)

Tim King, you do not sound like mean person, like you do on the comments! I am an immigrant and you are trying to send us back? Tim King, the problem is that you with out learning the situation well want to send us back? WHERE? The thing is you only heard one side of the story, the investigators and the kids? Isn't there two sides? Tim King, I am their very close relative and I am 16 years old, if I were given a choice who to side with my peers or the adults, Tim King, who do you think I would be more comfortable siding with? Yes, my peers, why am I not doing so? Why am I doing the opposite? Because I know the situation closer, Tim King, and I do not want to side with the side that is wrong! Believe me or not, Tim King, I know the story more closer then you, the police, the investigators, and all of you together, and that is why I am against you! Tim King, you have got to understand two things I as a 16 year old feel more comfortable siding with my teens and I would do that only if their side of story would be correct! Second, you have to realize that Police is not always true! Look in USSR they were saying propoganda? Why wouldn't you believe it? Why do you believe the current propoganda? Is this propoganda better then the USSR's? If you look in history most of the time who was more persecuted the Christians by the government or the government by the Christians? If Christians were persecuted more then are they all lying right now to try to persecute the government? Maybe it is the opposite? Tim King please make sure you know what you are defending as you are making it worse for your self! I am a real Christian- I do not lie! I know this situation better then you!

Alex July 29, 2009 11:45 am (Pacific time)

Where do they say that they used rocks, they even have the court document with not a word about rocks. check this video: mms://a207.v255789.c25578.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/207/25578/v0001/vod.ibsys.com/2009/0722/20148294.200k.wmv and when they say 6 of the children were abused and SOME, had visible marks that means that it were spankings leaving marks and gone in a day. not scars im writing to prove the truth!

kristy July 29, 2009 10:15 am (Pacific time)

the 14 year old kid is a boy named Dima he is not a girl get your story straght first and then publish it

Alex July 29, 2009 10:50 am (Pacific time)

The parents are accused of inflicting punishment with items that included wire straps, "dog switches" and "rocks".

Please check your writing, is right?(the truth can be told only by the parents why don't they ask them anything?) I allow the thought of a regular belt but not rocks! Only a teen can make up the thought "Rocks". (I think that this is all from the police, those are their guesses not facts.)I think you would say that im gossiping? but whats the difference i know them for years the police knows them for only a week.

Editor: What I relay is straight from the law enforcement agency that made the arrest. I am told these kids have lifelong physical scars. I have a hard time believing they have not been severely abused. If so, does this community have what it takes to come to the children's aid? I think they need all the love they can get, and it is awful to think of the things people here have written about them. In the end, the parents have been around a lot longer than the kids, and damned well should be smarter than to ruthlessly beat them, if that is what happened. If it is what took place, and all of you still rally only for the parents, then I am gravely disappointed.

Anonymous July 29, 2009 10:33 am (Pacific time)

My parents remember the time similar to this in the USSR. They remember the posters saying "Hе Болтай"
on every corner!
The people were strictly told not to say any thing against the government. The Russian law was that you may speak about your religious rights but if any one tried to they were sent to prison and some times never came back! My parent remember the time when the government took christian children the same way, saying that they will discipline them in a religious way but they really disciplined them in the communist way.(People from America were writing letters to the governments of places like Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus etc. now we are going to get letters from those country i mention and more! This is TOTALLY wrong i thought America was FREE and it gives the right to discipline "THEIR" children buy the Bible!)

Editor: I believe this is almost a contradiction. People in the U.S. are free - free to not be abused. Kids have rights too darn it, and all of these comments for the parents are starting to be pretty disturbing.

kristy July 29, 2009 10:28 am (Pacific time)

my best friend went to the same camp with them and so she told me the full story.the kids were not particapating in any activities because they where to busy spreading rummers about there freinds and braeking the camp rules.

Editor: OK, now you are just being creepy. I can't help it if you don't possess the most basic understanding of human psychology. Have you no compassion for people? Don't you know why the kids were withdrawing from activities? If your life is better, be thankful.

Rachel July 29, 2009 10:08 am (Pacific time)

I go to Church But that does not mean I will stone or beat my children. We have laws that protect people and children aganist violence in this country. I believe if one does not obey the laws they should move back to their own country or be punished. We can't tell our children to not be violent and turn around and beat them. Nobody ever said that having children is a easy job. If they had so many problems with the older 3 why did they continue to have more children? I believe the children did the right thing in asking for help.

Anonymous July 29, 2009 8:31 am (Pacific time)

Has a trial date been set?

Vic July 29, 2009 7:25 am (Pacific time)

Well the Christians out there should have no problem with this...after all, the Bible tells us plainly that disobedient children are to be murdered by stoning them to death. Deuteronomy 21:18-21 "If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death."

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