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Oct-25-2007 19:34printcomments

Immigration Reform, La Raza and the DREAM Act

La Raza accuses their opponents of being 'anti-immigrant' when they are just anti-ILLEGAL-immigrant'.

Viva La Raza poster
Image courtesy: sdmesa.edu

(SALEM, Ore.) - Uh oh. La Raza, the organization who loves to accuse anyone opposed to AMNESTY for the millions of illegal immigrants in this country of being 'racists' yet calls itself "The Race", is 'saddened and angered' that the misnamed DREAM Act (Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act) has again been blocked in the US Senate.

This bill has nothing to do with dreams any more than the USAPATRIOT (Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism) Act has anything to do with patriotism. It is all about amnesty, utilizing misleading and misrepresentative anagrams, pure and simple.

La Raza makes claims that the majority of US voters want Congress to come up with immigration reform. This much is true. But it has been made clear that this majority does NOT want AMNESTY in any way, shape or form.

La Raza accuses their opponents of being 'anti-immigrant' when they are just anti-ILLEGAL-immigrant'. La Raza wants desperately to erase that distinction, that those they are promoting are CRIMINALS who are here ILLEGALLY.

La Raza keeps promoting the debunked myth that these illegals 'only are doing jobs no one else wants to do'. Oh really? No one else wants $20 an hour construction jobs? What about all the fast food jobs teens used to do which are now filled with illegals to the point that you have to be bilingual to even be hired because you almost never hear a word of English between employees behind the counter? And there are all the other jobs they fill driving wages down so far that the only ones willing to work for the depressed wages are those same illegals who depressed the wages in the first place.

And Salem, Oregon does, indeed, have a serious problem with illegal immigrants. The public does indeed want immigration reform. What we do NOT want is AMNESTY. Amnesty was tried in the 1980s and granted to about 2 million illegals.

Instead of stopping illegal immigration all it did was entice them further. So now we have ten times as many illegals here 20 years later and if we grant them amnesty now we will find that 20 years from now we will likely have 200 million illegals. Amnesty is not an option in any form that the american voters will accept again, and La Raza and their fellow travellers should realize that.

You want immigration reform? I got your immigration reform right here. Not that the likes of La Raza will ever like it.

Severe (bordering on draconian) fines against employers found to employ illegals. Even higher fines (like ten times as high) on those employers actually found to be importing illegals.

Severe (bordering on draconian) fines against landlords and landowners who rent or sell to illegals or who allow them shelter in any way.

Denial of any and all social services (public schools, TANF, WIC, Section 8, Pell Grants, the lot) other than ER services and emergency response services (police and fire). At the ER those who are here legally get the majority of the intake services. Illegals go to the illegals line with one nurse practitioner unless they are triaged with something obviously life-threatening such as a sucking chest wound.

This should help those here legally be served in less than the standard 6 hours we seem to be forced to wait these days. Maybe someone in an INS/ICE jacket patrolling the waiting room would speed things up a little faster as well.

Reworking the 14th amendment 'anchor baby' issue. The children born here are US citizens according to the 14th amendment (under some interpretations). Fine, so be it. But that should not give their parent(s), siblings, extended family, godparents, friends or neighbors a foot in the door to jump the immigration line. Such children should not, until 18, be allowed to sponsor anyone. Also the parent(s) have a choice regarding family unity. They can take the kid back where they came from and the kid can reenter legally when 18 or alone to live with those here legally if still a minor, or they can place the kid here legally with someone who is here legally as their legal guardian.

Those should be the only choices allowed. I am not the one breaking up families. The pregnant women who dash across the border illegally like a running back trying to make the game winning touchdown are. Children are not footballs and should not be treated as such. How many miscarriages (or even deaths of these running back mothers) occur in these attempts?

It is true that the country needs guest workers to REALLY 'do the jobs US citizens REALLY do not want to do'. So make a real guest worker program and immigration reform with teeth.

Have the guest worker list the one, maybe two, jobs they are seeking. Picking crops, cannery, maid service, etc. Give them a visa and guest worker ID card with their biometric data (fingerprint, retina scan and DNA sample) that is valid for six months and renewable twice before they must return home to reapply.

They they would be barred from being issued state IDs. If they want to drive their card could be given a driver endorsement if they pass the DMV tests but I would think commercial driving is not what the guest worker program should be for, just regular driving. They would be ineligible for any social services as listed above except that they, not being illegals, would not go to the illegal line at the ER.

If they are not working in the job(s) listed on their IDs they would be required to go home. If found here out of compliance they would get deported and be banned from legal entry by any means for ten years for the first offense, with a lifetime ban for any further offense.

On the employer side they will need to demonstrate a true bona fide good faith effort to hire those here legally before they will be allowed to hire a person from the guest worker program. I would also like to see a requirement on the guest worker program of fluency in English but that is not a dealbreaker.

On regular immigration those wishing to legally immigrate to this country should demonstrate marketable job skills, fluency in English etc. If sponsored, such as by family, these can be relaxed (although I would like to see english fluency within say 5 years of entry) and a sponsor should be required to sign papers and prove they can financially support the immigrant they are sponsoring so that they will not become a burden on the taxpayers.

Anyone immigrating legally in this manner should be ineligible for social services, as above, for at least 5 years (I would prefer ten). They should also have a federal immigrant ID card (with biometric data) issued which would eliminate a need of their getting a state ID. If they want to drive there can be a driver endorsement added to the immigrant ID card. Commercial driving endorsements would be allowed in these cases as these are legal immigrants.

This will allow people to legally immigrate to the US in a sane and orderly manner. It will also get rid of most if not all illegals because the country will be made toxic to them. They will have nowhere to work legally, nowhere to live legally, and all the candy store enticements will be gone as well as there being the severe penalty for being found here illegally of never being allowed to legally immigrate to the US, ever, for any reason. You will see them running for the border like they already are in Oklahoma.

There is nothing racist in my positions or policy here. I do not care what their skin color is or where they are from. Illegals Go Home. It has been pointed out that there is less outcry about 50,000 Irish illegals... well, I do not see them forcing everyone here to speak Gaelic and there is a large difference between 50,000 and 20,000,000 isn't there? But I do not differentiate. I do not care who you are.

If you are here illegally you are unwelcome and I, and according to the polls the majority of US citizens, want you to leave. If you wish to be a part of our society you are expected to do so LEGALLY. If you cannot do so legally then we neither want nor need you here. Period.

And anyone who thinks my suggestions are harsh should check out the immigration laws and penalties in Mexico.

National borders mean something, even if the President of Mexico disagrees and claims 'anywhere there is a Mexican is Mexico'. If that really IS the case I even more strongly suggest we get rid of every Mexican illegal in our borders to eliminate this claim against our national sovereignty.




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Neal Feldman February 3, 2008 1:30 pm (Pacific time)

Jose - Where did I say death penalty for being here illegally? Genocide deals with race. Illegal is not a race, it is a status, and it encompasses pretty much every race, sex, age, creed, etc. And anything an illegal does or can do a LEGAL immigrant can do too. That is what you miss. I am not anti-immigrant or anti- any particular race. I am pro-law. If the farmers need 10 million pickers allow in 10 million pickers with the understanding they do not bring their families and when the job is done they go home, they do not drop anchor babies, they do not suck up social service resources, they do not overfill out schools to the bursting point, etc. And most importantly they are not allowed to drive down wages. Construction jobs are NOT jobs 'Americans will not do'. They just won't do it for slave wages driven into the dirt by illegals. If there comes sacrifice with doing the right thing in enforcing the laws so be it. This country has sacrificed in the past for what is right and emerged stronger and better for it. The invasion you so clearly support must be stopped and reversed if this country is to survive. Ah well...


Neal Feldman February 3, 2008 1:21 pm (Pacific time)

i believe - I think it sucks that the poor choices your parents made have come back to haunt you. But the fact remains it was THEIR (your parents') fault for the situation you are in... not mine, not the law's. It may be the only country you have known but you are still here illegally. Everything you have was stolen from this country and those here legally. If some couple rob a bank of ten million dollars and raise their kid in the lap of luxury because of it, then get caught later any cries from the now adult or near adult child that they should get to keep everything because they have had it all their life should fall on deaf ears. It may sound heartless and insensitive but in a nation based upon the rule of law if the law is ignored with impunity then you have nothing but anarchy. So I have a question for you in return... what makes you so much better than the child of those who have waited 18 yrs (and are still waiting) to enter the US legally? Why should you, whose entire existence here has been illegal, get to stay and they, who have tried to do it legally, should be kept out because you are (in a way of putting it) 'taking their spot'? Hmmm? Ah well...


i believe January 1, 2008 3:27 pm (Pacific time)

My parents BROUGHT me from Mexico into Los Angeles, California when i was about 8 MONTHS old. My parents applied for residency 6 years ago but it was denied because our lawyer was a fraud and filled the paperwork PURPOSELY wrong. Because of that i am now an illegal Honor Student in a Magnet Highschool with a 4.0 gpa and will graduate highschool this year with a Honors Diploma. After highschool i have no where to go, The Dream ACT was my only hope but it failed. I want to be a doctor someday, but i am an illegal. I didnt choose to live my life this way. I love this Country, i was raised here(i have been here all my life)....its not fair. its like a biological parent whom decides to give their child to an orphanage, the child was not in fault of this, then later on an adoptive parent comes and adopts the child, the child grows to love the parent......so wat do you think????.........anmiflores@yahoo.com


Jose November 4, 2007 3:53 am (Pacific time)

Neal, news flash so you learn a little more for your next paper, after the fire in California 2000 homes burned, guess who is going to clean all the mess, yes just like Katrina the Mexican jornaleros(day labor), even the xenophobic minuteman are not saying anything about it, they need them too.


Bobby October 30, 2007 10:07 pm (Pacific time)

Here is one truth that is quite evident. AMERICANS are just one big DISEMPOWERED, group of people. Conclusion; we had better find out and fast who is disempowering us and get rig of them. Why some Americans keep voting for the same polticians who are essentially makin them second class citizens in their own nation is a mystery.


Jose October 30, 2007 2:47 pm (Pacific time)

wow Neal, death penalty for undocumented people, that's nothing short of genocide so I will think is only a small group of far...right individuals, anyway you keep mention Oklahoma I hope all undocumented people get out and a week later the economy collapsing will help America understand what is at stake here, from construcion to agricilture and no is not the strawberry you use to pick for 2 week in the summer is multibillion dollars business and a national security issue for American to be able to feed themself, just look at California the richest state in the nation the natzi governot Arnold, when he took office he was all in the same page than you people, after mutibillion looses in the state agriculture and so on he went to rocky point Mexico, to say I like Mexicans we should allow more to come and work..haha I find that very funny, cheers


Neal Feldman October 30, 2007 8:37 am (Pacific time)

bamboozler - nice 'argument' there.. all facts and no baseless namecalling. Just like the othe pro-illegal open borders crowd I see. Ah well...


bamboozler October 30, 2007 12:56 am (Pacific time)

Is the Salem-news.com the new gathering place for all the paranoid self-absorbed racist bigots to hang out? good by


Dan Mendez 'USMC' October 29, 2007 10:08 pm (Pacific time)

This says it all, and to who posted this, thanks for factual figures we can all understand. BTW I'm mexican and Italian!!! illegals and hate groups like la raza who were caught funding mecha in the books with tax payer money!!! damn hotos!! are no good for anyone!! mecha, azlan, etc. These groups will try to make the US a 3rd world slum by way of the dems, we will be a ruined country for sure if this happens. No higher wages, no good paying jobs, just filth and lawlessness just like south of the border.. My Mother came here legally la raza putos!!! so FU by saying illegals are good for us, they are'nt, Vincente Fox is a cabron and a liar, period!!! I am an American Soldier cabrons!! I worked my ass off to be one!! Yes there are racists, so what, we all are from time to time but there is a line you draw and you don't cross it!! These racist organizations do not talk for this American Latino!! they are secretly hate based, they claim they will kill all non latinos after reconquesta, since I'm half Italian I guess they want to kill me and my family too!! god damn putos!!! Too bad alot of people don't want to admit or don't know the truth about it.. If you post sorry I don't have the time to reply, I have to do my duty for my country.. I'm going back to my wife and my son to enjoy my life, this makes me sick and I will fight la raza socialist gangs in the streets with a vengeance!!! you criminal puto illegal supporting liars!!! NOYB October 28, 2007 3:08 pm (Pacific time) I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have included the URL's for verification of the following facts. 1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77 2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html 3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html 4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html 5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html 6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html 7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html 8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare and social services by the American taxpayers. http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html 9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html 10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html 11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht 12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period." http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf 13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm 14 "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States ". http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml The total cost is a whooping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR If this does raise the hair on the back of your neck, then forward it to every human in the country including every representative in Washington, DC four time a week for a month.


JWK October 29, 2007 9:14 pm (Pacific time)

There is no hatred here, just facts. No one is being mean just to be mean. This is an issue of law and respect for the law. When I lived in Mexico I was required to carry my visa with me and produce it when asked by any police officer or official. If I did not have it I faced immediate deportation and fines. Mexico does not allow any of the rights that people from other countries have here. We did not steal this country but won it due to the blood and sacrifice of others. This is reality. If you come here respect the laws here as I did when I lived in Mexico. I do not hate nor am I mean. After 30 years being back here I still speak Spanish and respect the Hispanic people but I also require they respect us.


Skipper Osborne October 29, 2007 7:42 pm (Pacific time)

This is to; You must be high. No, I am not desparate to prove a point. I stated in my article, "...The law is clear, if you come to the United States you need certain documents. Therefore, ANYONE that does not adhere to that law and come otherwise are illegal, and SHOULD BE PROSECUTED..." Those last three words will cover the different fraudulent activities. In my article I never said they where the same thing, you did. What you missed was ..."it was not until the Mexicans started asking for BETTER WORKING CONDITIONS, BETTER PAY AND RESPECT, all of a sudden, "Oh, I have an illegal immigrant on my payroll,they mut be deported!" That is the same thing that happened to African Americans, thus followed the lynching, rapes, and exploitation. You failed to give your name is there a reason?


Mike at western voices world news October 29, 2007 6:39 pm (Pacific time)

Mexico is taking advantage undisputably with the lax enforcement (cultural and legal) of immigration law in USA. Many of them are even claiming to be "native Americans" to try justifying their abuse and crimes against white people especially.


Diane D October 29, 2007 5:34 pm (Pacific time)

Great article.One thing missed though. Some in our government want open borders to destroy us culturally and economically. Their purpose is the North American Union and One World Government.It's not about "Mexicans" but of national security! How many OTM have crossed our borders with our extinction as their goal?


Since when? October 29, 2007 5:30 pm (Pacific time)

Since when does a person who can work for higher wages choose to work for lower wages? Since when can we say that illegal’s are doing the jobs that Americans dont want to do? Ive watched students, retired people or just someone wanting to make extra money disappear and be replaced with Spanish speaking people everywhere. Fast food, cleaning services, construction you name it. Jobs that require little education are taken over by illegals. Why? MONEY. Because it’s cheaper to pay them off the books instead of paying workers comp. Business owners are making out lovely, and we tax paying citizens are the ones subsidizing these illegal families. If you think its OK for illegal’s to be here, then YOU PAY FOR THEM. Dont ask my tax dollars to pay for anything having to do with it. I personally think that those of you who say things like “They are doing the jobs that most Americans dont want to do" are throwing up red flags. Who did those jobs before? That’s just a stupid argument. Anyone who needs money will do anything to get it. Those jobs, regardless of how "low" should go to Americans and those who are here legally. Ahh well...


Neal Feldman October 29, 2007 4:45 pm (Pacific time)

Roy - Why is it those who seem most prone to baselessly accuse me of venom are the ones, like you, who are most venomous? It is amusing. Redneck? Moi? It is to laugh. As for minorities I have no issues with them at all. I have had many more black friends in the past than now but that is just because Oregon seems to stop them at the border... I almost never see any. But I used to live in Oakland CA with no issues at all. My son in law is hispanic and I have never had any issues with hispanics myself. Growing up I had lots ofcontact and friends who were italian, chinese, korean, vietnamese, etc as well... no issues. My issues as stated are with those here ILLEGALLY. I realize those like you who cannot play the race card have nothing to say. Maybe you should consider leaving it that way instead of misrepresenting as you do. And if you think your profanity helps your argument you are even less intelligent than you appear, which is saying a lot. Ah well...


Dan K October 29, 2007 4:11 pm (Pacific time)

You are so absolutely right on this! They deserve nothing because they broke the law! You would get nothing buy immediately deported if you tried the same in Mexico. Great Story in telling the truth


JMA October 29, 2007 4:03 pm (Pacific time)

Thank you Neal for writing this. I am a black male that always voted Democratic. I liked Obama and Clinton until watching the debates and learning that both of them are in favor of a "path to citizenship" aka amnesty. My jaw dropped. How could a law maker not support the law? I’m crossing party lines this time around. Illegal immigration has changed whole communities. I’m not saying that change is bad since this country IS a country of immigrants and will always be so. But, it’s unfair for one group of people to flood into America and because of their sheer number, demand to stay. What kind of message does that send to other countries? Yes, Latinas are the second largest group in the US, and that is directly related the tidal wave of illegal’s crossing our borders from South America. Some people say, "What’s the big deal, let them live". I agree with that. All people have the right to peruse happiness, but not at the expense of others. They cut the line ahead of Haitians, Jamaicans, Russians, and Canadians etc. That’s something that shouldn’t continue or be rewarded. Fair is Fair. I’m outraged that the politicians would sell out America just for 12million plus votes.


You must be high October 29, 2007 3:36 pm (Pacific time)

Skipper Osborne: You're comparing people who were brought here as slaves for 400 years, then "freed" only to be subjected to Jim Crow then fighting for equal treatment, to a group of people who are NOT AMERICAN CITIZENS, use fake social security numbers, drive without insurance (because the can not get drivers liscences) and work for cash, so that they wont have to pay taxes? You really think thats the same thing? African Americans that demanded equal treatment were first AMERICAN CITIZENS who were lynched, raped and exploited against their will. How dare you. Know your history before you write such bias material. The illegals willingly came to America on their own accord. TALK ABOUT BEING DESPERATE TO PROVE A POINT. No matter how you slice it. If you came here illegally, you are illegal. If you are illegal, you are a criminal and as such, should be prosecuted, fined and sent back. I do agree with you regarding the businesses. They are exploiting the rest of america, but not the illegal workers. Those workers chose to come here. They chose to work there. They also chose to use public facilities including free education for their children.


Alex T. October 29, 2007 9:04 am (Pacific time)

You sound like a dumb redneck. your just pissed because the immigrants who are working their asses off are getting the jobs you want. You know why? Because they do them better so stop crying about it and get your act together. your whole article is BS.


Roy October 29, 2007 7:36 am (Pacific time)

Neal: Since BS is not a profanity, I will used it to tell you that I am done reading your B S, you're just a F%$#@K redneck. I bet that you're against not just illegal immigrants but all minorities as well including African Americans, I can sense it in your writing. Don't even bother to reply, since I'm not reading any more of this BSSSSSSS..... Peace out brother, I hope that you remember all your remarks on the judgement day when it is going to be you judged for all the "crimes" against humanity that you are doing right now, like dispersing hate among people as a snake venom spread in their victims body. Oh! and as you said, A Well...


Neal Feldman October 28, 2007 11:17 pm (Pacific time)

Illegals should have no voice... goes with the territory. You want a voice in the US? Be here legally. It really is that simple. Ah well...


luis viera October 28, 2007 9:41 pm (Pacific time)

I hope La Raza keeps working hard for those of us with no voice.


Neal Feldman October 28, 2007 6:37 pm (Pacific time)

Skipper - Amnesty again? Never. We gave amnesty to 3 million and now have 30 million illegals. If we give amnesty to 30 million we will, in 20 yrs or less, have 300 million illegals. That is unacceptable and any politician supporting such is signing their own political death warrant and they know it. The backlash that started in response to the belligerence of the marchers in 2005 in support of illegals has only just begun. The illegals and their supporters have not even figured it out yet. They are whining and crying about the heat of a single match when there is a firestorm of nuclear proportions building against them. As the saying goes, you ain't seen nothing yet. But do continue to call for amnesty. Every time someone does the forces against illegals and the policy of amnesty grow ever stronger. Ah well...


Anonymous October 28, 2007 6:29 pm (Pacific time)

Jose - it may not be a felony but it is still a crime no matter how you slice it. I am not wrong. And if you again read my article you will see to solve the problem we do not need to arrest or lock up a single illegal. That is the beauty of it. Just make the nation toxic to them and illegals will leave and they will stop coming. Immigrants who come through and by legal means will be welcomed with open arms. And again you will notice there is no racism in my position I do not care where the illegals are from. They should all be treated equally, all gotten rid of. And yes I remember the marches... all the mexican and other nation flags being waved, all the angry illegals demanding they will never leave. I wonder how many of them are still in Oklahoma? LOL Ever heard of backlash? You and those on your side have just begun to see the merest tip of the backlash iceberg... those 2005 marches are historically going to be seen as the Titanic of the Illegal situation in the US. Your kind say you can mobilize. so can those of us who are here legally and who support and defend this nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I remember and live by those words. I doubt that you even know where they are from. Ah well...


Neal Feldman October 28, 2007 6:20 pm (Pacific time)

NY Times - sorry but your desperation to use euphemisms and sophistry do not undo the fact that your arguments have no legitimacy. Those here illegally (whether they entered illegally or simply refused to leave when they were supposed to) are in fact criminals by so doing. Just because there is no death penalty for it (though some may wish there was) does not change this. And it is far more serious than 'illegal parking'. You insult the intelligence of anyone you try and convince of your nonsense. Those here illegally not only steal from those here legally by their presence but also commit a litany of crimes in staying here not to mention undermining the entire LEGAL immigration system - why should anyone bother with all that nonsense when they just have to sneak in and wait for the bidecadal amnesty? hmmmm? There will be immigration reform but the folks at La Raza and their open borders fellow travelers will not like it much. Ah well...


Skipper Osborne October 28, 2007 6:12 pm (Pacific time)

Are we missing the TRUE and REAL picture here folks? Let us quit debating the issue: The law is clear, if you come to the United States you need certain documents. Therefore, ANYONE that does not adhere to that law and come otherwise are illegal, and should be prosecuted. When a corporation or any business, hire an illegal immigrant; they are also breaking the law of "AIDING AND ABETING," and they should likewise be prosecuted. But, you see follks is okay for illegal immigrants to do the work that most Americans do not want to do (yes some do have higher paying jobs). If you follow the history of the current illegal immigration fight; it was not until the Mexicans started asking for better working conditions, better pay, and respect, all of a sudden, "Oh, I have an illegal immigrant on my payroll, they must be deported!" All levels of employers, county, city, state, and federal government; know and have known for years that they HAVE/HAD illegal immigrants working for them. Just as America did the African Americans when they began to fight for better wages, working conditions, fair promotions and just and equitble treatment; racism and discrimination reared its ugly head: this is what is now happening to illegal immigrants especially to the Mexicans. Our forms of government has allowed illegal immigrants to enter the United States. Our government is the main cause of the problem, because they refuse to enforce the law for economic gain for a few (the weathy and corporations). Revisit the economics of slavery; America and America's economics was built b FREE LABOR FROM AFRICAN SLAVES! So, if we are going to deport and prosecute the illegal immigrants for breaking the law. We should also arrest, prosecute and fine officials for breaking the law. So, let us quit making this a racial issue ( rather you admit it or not). I agree for amnisty for all illegal immigrants here, and all officials and businesses that have hired them. Then start applying the law justly and equitably; that is when true immigration reform will begin.


Jose October 28, 2007 4:48 pm (Pacific time)

No Neil, you are wrong, Senserberg(I may spell it wrong) in 2005 try to change the Law and make undocumented people and those how help them criminals, well you may remember the millions on the streets from LA to NY, breaking every record in number of people,and needless to say the bill didn't pass. So no is not a crime that is why they get deported and not put in prison to serve a sentence. About the real estate price, please don't get me wrong, I like Oregon and my intention was never to minimise your state, just to prove a point to an other fellow who thinks Mexico is a cespool, perhaps he may do some research and learn that Mexico is a Country of contrast from the richest person on eart to 50 millions poor, from resorts into the millions with millioins of Americans living there to lost cities with no services, the biggest cement company in the states is mexican, as well that the larges number of undocumented people are Mexican, we are the 10 largest economy we buy more goods from you than France,Germany and Britan convined, just some point to make him understand no all is bad, but he need to get out and find out by him self


NOYB October 28, 2007 3:08 pm (Pacific time)

I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have included the URL's for verification of the following facts.

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare and social services by the American taxpayers. http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period." http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14 "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States ". http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

The total cost is a whooping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR

If this does raise the hair on the back of your neck, then forward it to every human in the country including every representative in Washington, DC four time a week for a month.


From the NY Times October 28, 2007 1:53 pm (Pacific time)

What Part of ‘Illegal’ Don’t You Understand?

By LAWRENCE DOWNES

I am a human pileup of illegality. I am an illegal driver and an illegal parker and even an illegal walker, having at various times stretched or broken various laws and regulations that govern those parts of life. The offenses were trivial, and I feel sure I could endure the punishments — penalties and fines — and get on with my life. Nobody would deny me the chance to rehabilitate myself. Look at Martha Stewart, illegal stock trader, and George Steinbrenner, illegal campaign donor, to name two illegals whose crimes exceeded mine.

Good thing I am not an illegal immigrant. There is no way out of that trap. It’s the crime you can’t make amends for. Nothing short of deportation will free you from it, such is the mood of the country today. And that is a problem.

America has a big problem with illegal immigration, but a big part of it stems from the word “illegal.” It pollutes the debate. It blocks solutions. Used dispassionately and technically, there is nothing wrong with it. Used as an irreducible modifier for a large and largely decent group of people, it is badly damaging. And as a code word for racial and ethnic hatred, it is detestable.

“Illegal” is accurate insofar as it describes a person’s immigration status. About 60 percent of the people it applies to entered the country unlawfully. The rest are those who entered legally but did not leave when they were supposed to. The statutory penalties associated with their misdeeds are not insignificant, but neither are they criminal. You get caught, you get sent home.

Since the word modifies not the crime but the whole person, it goes too far. It spreads, like a stain that cannot wash out. It leaves its target diminished as a human, a lifetime member of a presumptive criminal class. People are often surprised to learn that illegal immigrants have rights. Really? Constitutional rights? But aren’t they illegal? Of course they have rights: they have the presumption of innocence and the civil liberties that the Constitution wisely bestows on all people, not just citizens.

Many people object to the alternate word “undocumented” as a politically correct euphemism, and they have a point. Someone who sneaked over the border and faked a Social Security number has little right to say: “Oops, I’m undocumented. I’m sure I have my papers here somewhere.”

But at least “undocumented” — and an even better word, “unauthorized” — contain the possibility of reparation and atonement, and allow for a sensible reaction proportional to the offense. The paralysis in Congress and the country over fixing our immigration laws stems from our inability to get our heads around the wrenching change involved in making an illegal person legal. Think of doing that with a crime, like cocaine dealing or arson.

Unthinkable!

So people who want to enact sensible immigration policies to help everybody — to make the roads safer, as Gov. Eliot Spitzer would with his driver’s license plan, or to allow immigrants’ children to go to college or serve in the military — face the inevitable incredulity and outrage. How dare you! They’re illegal.

Meanwhile, out on the edges of the debate — edges that are coming closer to the mainstream every day — bigots pour all their loathing of Spanish-speaking people into the word. Rant about “illegals” — call them congenital criminals, lepers, thieves, unclean — and people will nod and applaud. They will send money to your Web site and heed your calls to deluge lawmakers with phone calls and faxes. Your TV ratings will go way up.

This is not only ugly, it is counterproductive, paralyzing any effort toward immigration reform. Comprehensive legislation in Congress and sensible policies at the state and local level have all been stymied and will be forever, as long as anything positive can be branded as “amnesty for illegals.”

We are stuck with a bogus, deceptive strategy — a 700-mile fence on a 2,000-mile border to stop a fraction of border crossers who are only 60 percent of the problem anyway, and scattershot raids to capture a few thousand members of a group of 12 million.

None of those enforcement policies have a trace of honesty or realism. At least they don’t reward illegals, and that, for now, is all this country wants.


mgvmh October 28, 2007 1:47 pm (Pacific time)

Yes Joe...I am "obedient" to the laws of this nation. Silly me, I am not a dishonest, lawbreaker who thinks the only way to get what you want is to break laws. I will pray for you Joe, that you learn one day the difference from "right and wrong". Maybe you are a lawbreaking illegal yourself. We are a nation of Laws. It is our governments responsibility to ensure that they are followed...all of them...starting at the border. My fiancee is from Mexico. He is honest and is following the "law" and applying for his visa legally. His parents instilled the values of "right and wrong" in him whereby he is coming here the "right" way. I have a great sense of humor Joe..I love to laugh, so nothing you can say can ever incite anger in me. I think you are funny. In the end, truth always prevails...and that is why "shamnesty" will never pass. Have A Great Day Joe!!! Love Ya!


Joe October 28, 2007 10:05 am (Pacific time)

Rita, you are nothing but an obedient cow, who thinks all people in the world must be slaves to stupid beaurocratic rules. Had you been around in 1776, you would have been one of the cowards telling the colonists they must be obedient and follow the king's rules. Thank god everyone in the world is not as cowardly as you.


Pedro October 28, 2007 9:32 am (Pacific time)

First of all Jimmo illegals exploit Social Security without paying into it.Some of them go to US hospitals and have surguries and Never pay the bill which gets past on to US citizens.A majority of the illegal mexican nationals care little about the Laws of the US.President Hoover and President Eisenhower knew the risk illegal mexican nationals possed to US workers and Deported them.We need a President who has that kind of Courage to protect American workers And Social Security.If illegals Applied legally for US citizenship just like foreign nationals do.It is outrageous to suggest illegal mexican nationals must be granted citizenship.


Rita October 28, 2007 3:05 am (Pacific time)

Joe, look up the word "honest" in the dictionary. Running across the border with spouses and children and entering this country illegally is "dishonest". You are gravely mistaken to say we are being "slaves to bureacratic rules"...they are called LAWS, Joe. If you say you have respect for those who "move about the globe without seeking permission"..then you are "dishonest", and have no respect for anything or anybody. Illegals should be deported. They are lawbreakers from the moment they put their foot on U.S. soil without permission. Crossing the border is just the first of many crimes they will do once they are here.


Neal Feldman October 28, 2007 1:07 am (Pacific time)

Anonymous - again with the vapid and baseless 'you stole it from us' BS. Relative to west of the Mississippi river we PURCHASED the land (from France in the Louisiana Purchase) or the land was gained through surrender terms from the Spanish. As to 'original ownership' all hominid specied in the Americas migrated either by sea or over the Bering land bridge... not one was indigenous to the region so you have no higher claim than anyone else. Obey the laws or get out. It is really that simple. To sentient civilized folk at least. (and if folks think my responses rude try considering them in the conext of the lies, misrepresentations and outright stupidity I am responding to) Ah well...


Neal Feldman October 28, 2007 1:03 am (Pacific time)

Jose - Being an illegal IS being a criminal. Definition of criminal is "one who commits crime" and the definition of crime is "an action or an instance of negligence that is deemed injurious to the public welfare or morals or to the interests of the state and that is legally prohibited." Violation of the immigration laws is therefore criminal activity. Whether it currently has a lightweight penalty (explaining why the laws seem to be held in such contempt by the likes of you) is irrelevant. You cab try and dance around it all you like but all the euphemisms in the world will not change the indisputable fact that illegal immigrants are all, by definition, criminals. So you can save yourself the effort of trying desperately to deny that particular reality. And you are being ridiculous when you compare values in Salem with the values in the choicest 0.01% of Mexico... try comparing to Miami Beach, Beverly Hills, the Hamptons, etc. If you are going to try comparisons try and compare that which is comparable or you just make yourself look more foolish than you already do. Ah well...


Jose October 27, 2007 5:22 pm (Pacific time)

Neal, first I am sorry my english is not as good as yours, but I am bilingual and most of you are not, so let's move on, you say you follow the law, and you call us criminals, when been here undocumented is not a crime is a civil matter, like a parking ticket or a speed ticket, again reseach before writing. John B it is clear to me that you have never leave your small town because if you ever make it to mexico and i don't mean the border but further south you will see millions of Americans living in Mexico, not in the States, anyway if you can google real estate in Cabo or Cancun, San Migule de Allende, Puerto Vallarta you will learn that the value is in the millions a lot more expensive than Salem Oregon,Could you please tell me why millions of American choose to live in Mexico and merry Mexicans if all you BS is true, thank you P.S. I hope you can open your mind a little because is shamefull be the way you are, God bless


Anonymous October 27, 2007 4:10 pm (Pacific time)

That is funny Mira, considering that you did nothing but steal this place from us, Native Americans. If you think this article and your attitude are helping anything then you are gravely mistaken. You can flap your lips, and we can mobilize. You want to see us as a threat, so I say no problem. Isn't this a healthy discussion?


Mira October 27, 2007 3:56 pm (Pacific time)

We do not need an Immigration reform. Enforce the laws we have, deport NOW, cut off all the social fundings for these people. Bill the parents for the education. Bill the people for their Emergency Room visits, stop giving free citizenship for the babies born here in the States. Take back our Country from these Criminals.


chris October 27, 2007 3:04 pm (Pacific time)

Oh yeah that message was for you NIF, DON'T WASTE ANY MORE SPACE TRYING TO STEALTHILY CRITICIZE MY INTELLIGENCE. YOUR DEFENSIVENESS AND UNWILLINGNESS LEAD ME TO BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE OF LA RAZA WITH YOUR SEEMINGLY EMOTION CHARGED SARCASM.


Neal Feldman October 27, 2007 3:03 pm (Pacific time)

Joe - do you also have 'respect' for those who just go into the homes of other people uninvited and help themselves to the amenities, property, etc and move around like this as they choose? Sure seems basically the same thing as you claim you respect, doesn't it? I love petty little anarchist wannabes... they are all about ignoring the rules until they need the rules to defend them. Pathetic hypocrites. Ah well...


Joe October 27, 2007 1:25 pm (Pacific time)

Rita needs to learn the difference between being an honest person and a slave to beaurocratic rules. I have great respect for those who move about the globe on their own terms, without seeking "permission" from beaurocrats or politicians. How sad that the "land of the free" has become the home of the slaves.


chris October 27, 2007 1:25 pm (Pacific time)

pictures don't lie(not to be confused with baseball pitchers). Moving pictures with words speak volumes of truth and in fact are undeniable. That was a summit which included many La raza members among the other racist groups of latino origin. If they were so righteous why would they be present? Would you sit in on a KKK meeting if you didn't espouse their views? Many of the very people who you defend come from countries where they themselves are racist against their own Afro populations. Just google Afro Latino and racism because their are more Blacks in Latin America than in the U.S.. THEY ARE THE MOST MARGINALIZED PEOPLE IN LATIN SOCIETY TO THE POINT THAT THEY ARE ALMOST INVISISBLE. You apparently don't know much about these people or you don't want to know. You very seldom see any those people migrating North, they are too afraid of what might happen to them if they venture outside of their caste. There are some here but they deny that they are because they are so ashamed, especially the Mexican Blacks who are not even counted in the census in their country of origin. Do you really want a race war here as has already begun to infold in some parts of L.A. but you friends from La raza don't want that known before a bill is passed. I have been to Veracruz and other places where Latinos live and I know the general cultures of many of them. I am aware that they involve the NAACP another group whom I despise in many of their efforts but I did not see them in the news protesting Jena 6 or any other peoples cause, hence everything for the race, nothing for those outside the race. What race are they talking about since Hispanic is not a race. Liberals like yourself tend to ask where is the barbecue when it is your own a#@ cooking.


Brianna of Phoenix October 27, 2007 9:34 am (Pacific time)

Talk is cheap - I think it is funny when silly Mexican Indians refer to themselves as "Latinas." You say you're not going anywhere. Hey - Who invited you to come over? I bet weeks' paycheck you will cry "racial profiling" when your criminal father is deported. You're going to be picking a lot of lettice to start paying back all that taxpayer money that paid for your alleged education!


Neal Feldman October 27, 2007 8:52 am (Pacific time)

Roy - BS is not profanity so get your panties unbunched. Also hispanics and illegals are not interchangeable terms unlike what you seem to wish with your racebaiting garbage. And it is the united States of America, not the united nations of America. Mexico, Canada, Honduras, Guatemala, Haiti, Cuba, ec etc etc are not States of the USA. Get a clue. Ah well...


Rita October 27, 2007 7:27 am (Pacific time)

Looking for "honest" work as Joe stated, is why illegals are here. "Honesty" starts with coming here legally. Coming to this country illegally is not honest. Furthermore, it is not hatred or racist to want any person entering this country to do it by legal means. My fiancee is from Mexico. We have been waiting right now for 5 months for his Visa to be approved, so he can come here and we can marry. I suppose he could have crossed the border like the twelve million others...but he didn't. He is honest. Even though it is a lengthy process, it is the LAW. He is entering this country, the same way my grandparents did...legally. The only thing the illegal parents are showing their children, is that if you can't get what you want honestly(applying to enter here legally), just break the law and cross the border. The problems that illegal immigrants endure here is due to their bad choice of entering without going through the proper channels. It's sad for the children of these illegal parents who perhaps would have obtained a higher education, and worked in their field of study, had they remained in Mexico, or simply..applied to this country "honestly".


DD877 October 27, 2007 7:14 am (Pacific time)

If we fined the illegal employers $10,000.00 Per illegal employee and Doubled it every time they were detained plus Charged the illegal employee The up keep and detention and the transport costs of every illegal alien back to the country of origin. I bet we could stem the tide.


John B October 27, 2007 12:51 am (Pacific time)

f%#K La Raza!! These savage, uneducated freeloaders need to go back home yesterday. Take their flags with them and their disrespect and fix thier own third world country. Regardless of how cold it sounds, these people are lower class. "It's not the color of their skin, it's the culture of their kin" that seperates them from most of the prosperous world!! The lower standard of living, the lower class value system, the cowardly gang mentality,the hypocracy of their proclaimed catholic faith which won't let them use contraceptives while overlooking sex outside of wedlock. All this they bring with them and more. Foolish false pride about being 100% Mexican, when really they are 50% savage and 50% Spanish is getting old. These people have nothing to be proud of!!! This their culture and their shame and it's high time they took credit for and stop the crooked finger toward everyone else. Look how they act at the rallies while shouting their hate at people they are calling racists. If the shoe fits then wear it - and don't blame us if it fits just a little too tight. Being stupid and having huge families without any thought to it before they have any education is a major part of their demise, and will continue to be for many generations to come. I could go ono and on and on about the character and cultural defects of these people, but i think most anyone who isn't looking for a vote and graduated from high school can figure out they are no good to anyone, not even themselves... as evidenced by the condition of their sweet homeland they so desperately keep trying to escape. a culture and plagued homeland which follows and destroys wherever they may roam!!! SHAME ON YOU MEXICANS!! SHAME ON YOU MEXICORNHOLE!!


Neal Feldman October 27, 2007 12:14 am (Pacific time)

I stayed out for a bit but all I have seen from those opposing my reasoned and reasonable position are baseless accusations of hatred and racism where there is none, claims that I am uneducated where the accuser cannot even spell or use punctuation, rants which only aid my position) that if amnesty is given the ex-illegals will get to vote and then we 'gringos will be mowing their laws', etc. Not one commenter opposing my position showed in any way that I am wrong in my position or that my suggestions would in fact work. In point of fact their incoherence (and THEIR clearly apparent rage and hatred) seems caused by the fact they know my suggestions, if implemented, WOULD be extremely effective as has been proven by the mass exodus of illegals recently from Oklahoma. They know if my suggestions are implemented fully stick a fork in them because they are done, end of story. And ANY policy which allows those in this country illegally to remain here is amnesty. What would not be amnesty is making them leave, preferrably pay fines and any back taxes owed, and get to the BACK of the line BACK WHERE THEY CAME FROM... not getting to cut ahead of those who are following the rules... not getting perks and special treatment above those following the rules because they cheated, because the violated the rules, broke the laws, etc. Those supporting illegals refuse to face the fact that it was not just crossing the border that was their only criminal act. It is a criminal act every second they remain in this country illegally. They are ongoing criminals. And that they want a better life or to feed their kids is irrelevant. I do not cut bank robbers, burglars, and thieves any slack because they want a better life or to support their kids, why should I cut illegals any for it? Hmmmm? Ah well...


Roy October 26, 2007 11:49 pm (Pacific time)

Ladies and Gentlemen, I want you guys to stop and analyze for a second what is happening with this article, it is getting nasty, people making fun of others because of their writing, the author of the article using foul language "BS". This is a perfect example of what is happening in the USA today with this immigration reform issue. Hate in USA against Illegal’s is on the increase the same way hate against blacks emerges on the 1860's, believe me that it won’t solve anything. This is the result of xenophobes like Lou Dobbs, Tom Tancredo, thanks god that he is definitely won't be our next president, Sen. John Cornyn, Jeff Sessions and others. Reading at all the articles against illegal immigrants in this discussion I feel like I'm listening to the same speeches of all of the above people that I mention. It is like people in this discussion are tape recorders and just repeats everything they heard from the xenophobes in congress and in the media. Please try to be originals and bring up your own ideas and stop repeating what you heard in the news without knowing the real facts. Somebody mention that More than 38,000 American citizens have been killed by Illegal's since 9-11 happened, and I guess that the web addresses that he also mentioned contains this illogical statistic, I don’t even wanted to check them out. Please who in the world would believe something like this, Hispanics on our jails represent just 19% nation wide of the whole inmates in our prisons in 2006 you can check in this web page from CNN to confirmed this; http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/27/census.prisons.ap/. This is just unbelievable how people make out such a story about Illegal’s, poor people, it is like they are part of some kind of game or sport where they are being hunting down to cut them in pieces or something. My friends my conclusion is that hate is not good for anybody, this is not what Abraham Lincoln or Martin Luther King died for, they died because they believe in a united America, and I believe that we Americans have to start honoring our country name, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA because if this issue continue to break us apart we might start thinking to change our country name to Separate States of America.


Joe October 26, 2007 9:35 pm (Pacific time)

The tendency to bash and attack the weakest segments of society is a truly ugly facet of human nature. When my grandparents immigrated to the US from Europe, they faced a lot of the same hatred and scapegoating my Mexican, Latin American and Asian brothers and sisters now face. Immigrants are not the enemy of working Americans. Indeed, the true enemy of the working people of all countries is the ruling class. The top 1% of the American population controls over 32% of the wealth in this country; the top 5% controls over 50% of the wealth. The bottom 50% controls less than 3% of the wealth. Wake up working Americans, your true enemies are those who exploit both you and your counterparts around the globe. Stop hating other working people for simply looking for hoest work, after their own economy has been destroyed by the multinationals.


TacoPuke October 26, 2007 7:04 pm (Pacific time)

They need to get out of our country and go back and fix the one they left. I find it horrible that our elected officials continue to go against the majority. WE WANT ILLEGALS OUT NOW.


Jose October 26, 2007 6:04 pm (Pacific time)

Hi Dan, you are right my english is far from perfect, but my point is right, nothing you can say about the shamefull past of american racism, if you want to try my spanish, I will be happy to do it, unless of course you are monolingual, cheers


Dan October 26, 2007 5:32 pm (Pacific time)

Jose... Where did you get your education? Mexico City? That has to be the longest run on sentence I have ever seen. I think it is you who needs an education.


very well put October 26, 2007 4:07 pm (Pacific time)

lance sjogren nailed it. you have my vote. unlike Clinton, who would sell out her country for 12million votes, you actually get it.


Randy October 26, 2007 4:07 pm (Pacific time)

Illegal aliens have stole work from me in construction. And when they get hurt on the job the employers that hire them take them to the emergancy room so tax payers have to pay for it , It is cheaper than paying workers comp on them. I am sick and tired of them. More than 38,000 American citizens have been killed by Illegal's since 9-11 happened. Now count the rapes and stabbing's robbery's and other crimes and none should have happened if our borders were secured. Go to www.immigrationcounters.com www.numbersusa.com for more or www.outragedpatriots.com


lance sjogren October 26, 2007 3:13 pm (Pacific time)

Many open-borders types say that the law is the problem and that illegal immigration opponents are too fanatical about the law. I agree in one sense. I believe immigration enforcement advocates are on the wrong track when they claim that the issue is "illegal is illegal". Not all laws are as important as others. Harshly enforcing jaywalking or someone who occasionally smokes marijuana does not serve any purpose. Now here's where open-borders people get off the track: Breaking the immigration laws on the individual level is not an egregious act. However, when those laws are broken by tens of millions of people, then the violation of that law reaches the point where it actually jeopardizes the very well-being of society, and in my view jeopardizes the very existence of society. I think that's the conceptual problem that the open-borders leftists have. They look at it on the indivdual level, rather than being able to comprehend the big picture. On an indivudual level, even most illegal immigration hawks have sympathy for illegal aliens. As I have said, it is not fair that some people get more opportunities than others because of where they were born or whatever. However, as I already pointed out previously, there is a strong case that the open-borders policy is every bit as unfair as the enforcement of the immigration laws. And the bottom line is, one has a right to protect one's family, community, and nation. Illegal immigration on the aggregate level destroys society. The vast majority of illegal aliens mean no harm. Open-borders advocates try to personalize the matter by claiming that enforcement advocates are uncompassionate to illegals. But they fail to comprehend that we take the stand we do not because we want to treat illegal aliens harshly, but because we want our communities and our nation to have a future.' If there were only 10,000 illegal aliens in this country, and little likelihood of millions coming in, I would say give them amnesty. But there aren't 10,000, there are 10 million or more. What is relatively harmless on a small scale becomes lethal when it occurs on a massive scale. So I encourage the open-borders leftists to try to get past your tunnel vision and see the bigger picture. Open-borders advocates keep talking about how their position is based on compassion for the individual illegal alien. We understand your argument, and we have pointed out why it is wrong. It is wrong because you are not looking at the big picture. I cannot emphasize this too much. The same applies to the churches etc that advocate amnesty for illegal aliens. They are focused on the trees, and they cannot see the forest. (some churches, like the Catholic Church, probably isn't motivated by compassion at all, but by simply self-interest. But I believe many of the institutions of the Religious Left are genuinely motivated by good intentions. But the problem is, they are failing to see the forest. It is perhaps somewhat analogous to a person who was a pacifist in the face of world war 2. Yes war is horrible, but sometimes there is no choice.


Dave October 26, 2007 2:16 pm (Pacific time)

wow - I just read the comment from Roy (the Christian). THAT is the writing of someone with an open mind and the true spirit of Jesus' words. He unintentionally shows the difference between the compassionate ideal and the defiant dogmatism so inspired by this article.


Laurilee October 26, 2007 2:12 pm (Pacific time)

UNWELCOME is exactly how I feel about watching illegal aliens pour across our border. But the real enemies of our country are the employers and traffickers of illegals. I've seen our health insurance rates skyrocket, social services agencies overburdened, and employment opportunities for our youth taken over by "those whom we do not mention by name lest we be labelled a Xenophobe!" I am NOT against immigrants however. . . .just ILLEGAL immigrants!


Nif in DC October 26, 2007 2:11 pm (Pacific time)

Sure Chris. Happy to help. The quote you refer to is from someone named Juan Angel Gutierrez who founded something called the La Raza Unity Party in Texas (see my third point below). It is apparently the motto of that organization, but has no more to do with NCLR than the Salem-News has to do with Salem cigarettes. On some level they were both named after the same thing, but… Here is an incomplete list of other things that sound similar, but are actually different: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals is not the same organization as Up With People, the peppy folks who used to sing during the Super Bowl half-time shows. New Jersey and New Hampshire are two different states. As are North Dakota and South Dakota, but I can’t tell by looking. Def Leppard has never performed on Def Comedy Jam Lou Dobbs and a Louisville Slugger sound alike, but while one is a wooden non-sentient being, the other is a brand of baseball bat. Finally, I’m relatively confident Homer Simpson didn’t write the Iliad, despite any YouTube evidence you may unveil to the contrary.


Neal Feldman October 26, 2007 2:09 pm (Pacific time)

Vic - In your example they broke no immigration laws as there were no laws against 'floating over' and moving in. So you have no fioundation for your BS. And I never have claimed to be all knowing or always right but if you claim I am wrong do please be courteous enough to PROVE I am wrong, don't just whine. ok? Ah well...


Neal Feldman October 26, 2007 2:06 pm (Pacific time)

Kate - forward with my blessings (but do attribute lol) Ah well...


Dave October 26, 2007 2:05 pm (Pacific time)

Neal, you say it's not a race issue for you. I believe you believe that. I don't. i read your complaints about foreign languages and low wage workers in fast food restaurants, which is not specifically about illegal immigration but rather about language and wage tolerance. As an "illegal" alien with a degree and high wage history, I fail to see any common ground between me and the illegal threat you describe. To me, your rant DOES sound like racism, under the veil of legal fanaticism. While indeed laws are being broken, sometimes it's better to question and reform the laws, so that they take into account the realities of a changing world. I say this knowing you are probably staunch and immovable, but that other readers may take something away from this page other than fear, anger, and self-righteousness.


lance sjogren October 26, 2007 12:50 pm (Pacific time)

There is a lot of puzzlement among leftists as to why many relatively affluent people are activists against illegal immigration. I can only speak for myself, but perhaps there are a lot of other people in the same boat. I speak out against illegal immigration because as one of the "haves" in this society, I feel a need to give back to the society that I have prospered in. And in my view, fighting illegal immigration is the highest moral purpose that someone who wants to serve his or her country and to serve mankind can do, at least within the United States. Illegal immigration hurts the most vulnerable Americans. It is an old cliche that the leftists used to use a lot, but it is absolutely true, that illegal immigration hits minorities and the poor the hardest. As someone pointed out, Neal probably has no need for that job picking crops. So then that person wonders, so why is Neal complaining? Well, I don't need to pick crops either. So why am I complaining? Well, I would think those on the left ought to be able to understand the concept. I do it not for my own self interest, but because I want to help those less fortunate. Now you may not agree that fighting illegal immigration is the best way to help the poor, but I would hope that you at least are able to comprehend the concept that a person may fight for a cause not for their own self-interest but on behalf of others who are in need.


chris October 26, 2007 12:39 pm (Pacific time)

NIF COULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN WHERE THE PHRASE "EVERYTHING FOR THE RACE, NOTHING FOR THOSE OUTSIDE THE RACE" COMES FROM. Also, perhaps you should review La Raza's "last gasp of White America". If you can explain that, then I might see some logic in your claims. The conference is available on you tube video also.


Joan October 26, 2007 12:36 pm (Pacific time)

If you are here illegally you are a criminal. Period. Our government allowed this country to be over-run by illegals who broke the law simply by "crossing the border". The only people who can not comprehend this fact, are the ones who came "illegally". Crossing the border is the FIRST CRIME that illegals will commit upon entering...followed by the use of fake social security numbers to get employed. Using fraudulent driver's license and permanent resident alien cards. They work for cash, pay no taxes to any state they live in, or the IRS, and the American taxpayers get to pay for the children to be educated here. They use our social services system to no end, getting free medical and public aid. We need to oust all Congressional leaders who do not enforce the immigration laws of this nation. NO AMNESTY should ever be given to any person who broke the law and entered illegally. Build the fence and enforce sanctions on employers hiring illegals...no matter what country they are from. Being illegal, you have no rights as a citizen of this country. I have family in military fighting for MY country and it's freedom. More States need to model Oklahoma and perhaps they will get the message to go home and apply "legally" to be here. It's not racist....it's the LAW!


Talk is cheap October 26, 2007 12:25 pm (Pacific time)

America is a victim of its own laws. dont get mad me. no way we latinas are goin anywhere. we are growing right now. i went to public school and got free lunch, free dental and my dad works off the books. thanks america. that guy doesnt agree w/ me because he knows it true. what do you think will happen when we latinas legal and illegal get to vote?


lance sjogren October 26, 2007 12:13 pm (Pacific time)

vic said: "My question for Neal is this...does it matter to you how long someone has been here ? My ancestors just floated overe here from England (thank God ) and moved in. We are all illegals and have been since 1786. " OK vic, I'll bite. If you are an illegal, then go back to Europe. "Or is it a "now that I am here close the door" thing?" No vic, I think it's more like an "every country in the world enforces its immigration laws except the United States (and perhaps a few third-world nations that are so destitute that they don't have the resources to control their borders) because the countries of the world realize that open-borders policies destroy societies. Now, I guess your point is that it is not fair if illegal aliens don't get the same opportunities that US citizens get. Yes, absolutely it is not fair. Nor is it fair that millions of semi-poor people from Latin America come to the US because of proximity, when there are hundreds of millions of people in the third world that need those opportunities a lot more than most illegal aliens do. And is it fair that a sweatshop owner gets to make an extra buck by hiring illegals, while an American worker loses their job and also loses any hope or opportunity for a better life? "We should topple that outdated "Statue of Liberty" and replace it with a statue of Ariel Sharon or Stalin. " The Statue of Liberty is where the open-borders wackos really show their ignorance. The Statue of Liberty never had anything to do with immigration. It has been hijacked by the open borders lobby, who figure that Americans are too ignorant of history to realize what a fraud this business about the Statue of Liberty being for the purpose of welcoming immigrants is. "Like Bush, Neal cannot and will not even consider that his opinion may be a bit skewed...He is The Possessor of All Wisdom and all the mortals who question or criticize him be dammned !" You are the one on George Bush's side on this. Do you really believe that George Bush's immigration agenda is good for America or for mankind?


lance sjogren October 26, 2007 12:05 pm (Pacific time)

let's keep it real said: "If i get caught not paying taxes, the IRS would take my home, garnish my pay and possibly throw me in jail." real, don't you understand, illegal aliens are the Chosen People? They get to choose which laws they obey. Because they are deities, they are not expected to abide by the same standards of conduct that the rest of us are.


lance sjogren October 26, 2007 12:03 pm (Pacific time)

Good and blunt commentary, Neal, congratulations. The leftist hatemongers of course are outraged. But what difference does it make what a deranged leftist crackpot thinks? I have a hard time understanding why politicians, journalists, and the like, feel the need to pander to lunatics.


American Citizen October 26, 2007 11:39 am (Pacific time)

"We call things racism just to get attention. We reduce complicated problems to racism, not because it is racism, but because it works." --- Alfredo Gutierrez, political consultant, as quoted by Richard de Uriarte, The Phoenix Gazette, March 14, 1992 (quoted in The ProEnglish Advocate, 1st quarter, 2002).


NIF in DC October 26, 2007 11:28 am (Pacific time)

1-NCLR didn't say they were "saddened and angered” over the filibuster of the DREAM Act, that was the National Immigration Forum, a different organization for which I work.

2-NCLR doesn’t call themselves “the Race,” nor do they call themselves “La Raza.” They call themselves NCLR. The NAACP does not call itself “The Colored People” either. Even your short-cut mistranslation of the term “La Raza” is silly. In this context it means “the people,” as in the human race. But you’re not the first to stoop there.

3-I have been following the work of NCLR for some time and haven’t seen them generally leading with or relying on accusations of racism any time recently. If you have evidence to the contrary, it would be worth providing to back you central claim. I suspect other advocates, perhaps at other organizations, perhaps at other organizations with the words “La Raza” in their organizational names even, rely on this hackneyed and short-circuited argument of alleged racism, but I just haven’t seen it from NCLR.

4-The claim that a majority of Americans oppose what you call amnesty is false on its face. The paradox of the recent immigration debate is that about 10-15 percent of the electorate is animated by the illegal immigration issue and are intensely against it. But poll after independent poll shows a majority of Americans support a system by which illegal immigrants report themselves to the government, pay fines, complete background checks, and eventually gain legal status. I assume you label that “amnesty.” Most people support it. See pollingreport.com or recent polls by CNN (10/17) or ABC (9/27-30). Intensity favors the anti-immigration side, but the numbers do not. That said, most people want to eliminate illegal immigration and reduce immigration overall, all things being equal. However, when it comes to the disposition of illegal immigrants already here, mass deportation and/or slow attrition do not gain majorities in any independent poll I’ve seen, and generally lose to legalization approaches by about 2-1. Again, if you have credible evidence to the contrary, you might want to use it to support your claims.

5-I don’t think NCLR or any other responsible advocates said the 1986 law would stop illegal immigration because it was not comprehensive reform. It legalized a percentage of the people here, but it did nothing to create an underlying immigration system that funneled people through legal channels, rather than restricting them so severely people decided to go around the legal channels. To compare the 1986 law to what should and has been considered today is another intellectual shortcut in your argument. Again, unless the level and efficiency of legal immigration is also addressed (along with legalization, border security and interior enforcement), we will, like 1986, have only addressed symptoms, not the underlying issue that we have tried to suppress immigration (ineffectively) rather than regulate it intelligently.

6-We allow 5,000 permanent immigrant visas for low-skill category immigrants for the entire country for the entire year, which probably doesn’t satisfy annual demand for Salem, let alone the region or state or nation. We have tried to control illegal immigration by restricting legal immigration. This has been a disaster. Overwhelmed by supply/demand forces in the labor market, our laws have fallen very far behind reality. If we had a functioning and adequate legal immigration system, most of the illegal entry and illegality would disappear, allowing scarce border and enforcement resources to be targeted to actual criminals, encourage integration for those who stay and cyclical migration for those just coming to solve relatively short-term financial issues.

7-Going into your misunderstandings about the use of services by immigrants, the eligibility they have had for services since 1996, and other wildly inaccurate claims made in your article will have to wait for another post because, frankly, you are just too wrong to address efficiently.

Bottom line: there are legitimate, fact-based reasons to argue against illegal immigration, something you and I both oppose, and reasons to oppose immigration in general, but you haven’t stumbled on many of them and provide several that diverge wildly from reason, facticity, and minimal accuracy. What comes through in the absence of evidence is rage, which isn't a constructive as reason, however cathartic it may be.


Las Vegas October 26, 2007 11:25 am (Pacific time)

wow, talk is cheap, you got that right, let's do some action and start ENFORCEMENT of our laws and remove all illegal aliens, no questions asked. Well, no questions other than, do you have proper and legal documentation to be in this country? no? wow, that sucks for you!


chris October 26, 2007 11:24 am (Pacific time)

Most of you sympathizers are too young to know that we had amnesty before that was suppose to solve this problem. Those who were given amnesty immediately began leaving those jobs the minute they becvame legal. After they drove doen the wages no Americans would do those jobs for the pay, hence creating a need for even more illegals. Who will fill the vacuum once we legalize 12-38 million? More illegals. The Dream Act if you read it is very vague and takes a persons word for truth for the most part, and anybody who can get phony liscense and ss cards surely can come up with documents to say that they qualify for these programs. Aside from that fact it will give power to sponsor family for citizenship(larger pool of cheap labor). This has to end before our environmental footprint stamps out the entire planet through mass consumption, especially with China and India's economy moving at breakneck speed. Business is not everything.


Aikman October 26, 2007 11:11 am (Pacific time)

I don't agree with TALK IS CHEAP remarks, I think that is out of context and it is a hater remark as well.


why they come October 26, 2007 10:57 am (Pacific time)

im sure that everyone know of whole communities where everyone speaks spanish. its so easy for them to live here without learning any english, yet have a whole support system in place where they can find a place to work and live. And for the people who think we are targeting the Mexicans/South Americans,...its because they are the largest group of people breaking our laws, so it should be obvious why they get mentioned so frequently


lets keep it real October 26, 2007 10:46 am (Pacific time)

do you really think *they* will continue to pick anything once they get legalized? i dont think so. Also, consider this. why would they want to register themselves and pay taxes if their pay is already low? It amazes me how the IRS isnt involved in this whole mess. If i get caught not paying taxes, the IRS would take my home, garnish my pay and possibly throw me in jail. Not so for illegals, they just have to stay under the radar and enjoy a income tax free life.


Talk is cheap October 26, 2007 10:40 am (Pacific time)

you cant stop us. we will find a way to get all 12million people legalized and voting for OUR people. You will be cutting OUR grass soon enough you gringos!


Aikman October 26, 2007 9:52 am (Pacific time)

Everyone in this country will benefit if we have immigration reform and illegal immigrants are legalized. This even includes the people who insist they should all be deported. We all agree that people should not be here illegally and that we should document everyone entering and leaving our country. Legalizing these illegal residents will benefit the whole country: the military, Social Security, our economy, education, even our national security.

The most immediate benefit would be to business. Our unemployment rate is below 4.5 percent. With so few people out of work now, there would not be enough available workers to replace undocumented workers if they were suddenly deported. Our birthrate is low, our population is aging and the workforce is shrinking.

If farmers can't hire enough workers to plant or harvest, they would close and more of our food would be imported. This would raise safety concerns and bring higher prices. Hotels, restaurants and landscape companies would close. Even with the recent economic slowdown, there wouldn't be enough workers left to build houses. Factories that could outsource their work overseas would. The companies that close would leave all their legal workers unemployed. Besides these obvious problems, there would be a smaller tax base for affected towns and the country.

A major benefit would be to Social Security. Fifty years ago, there were 20 workers for every retiree on Social Security. By 2030, there will be two workers to cover each retiree. The young immigrant workers here now (and their children) may be the answer to the Social Security funding problems of the future.

Our military would benefit, too. There are almost 30,000 non-citizens on active duty in our military. Active-duty immigrants can apply for citizenship in less time than usual without having to return home before applying. Many immigrants place a high value on training and education available through the military. When citizenship requirements are eased, more immigrants will sign up, which will help enlistment numbers.

All immigrants know they should speak and understand English, but since they could be deported at any moment, there is little incentive to learn. If the undocumented people were required to learn English in order to stay here, they would all learn it.

If all legal residents have to know English, the lines in the grocery store and bank will move faster, neighbors can discuss problems, we'll have safer traffic when everyone can read the signs, women can report domestic violence, parents and teachers can discuss a child's progress, problems can be discussed with a doctor, and contracts and agreements will be understood.

The high school dropout rate for immigrant children is very high. They know that even if they qualify, they won't be able to attend college at an affordable price. If they manage to get a college degree, they can't get a good job because they are here illegally. This defeats the purpose of their education and our country loses the benefits of these young people educated in our schools.

If undocumented people are offered legal status, they would have to register with the government, be fingerprinted and have a background check before receiving an ID card. People who do not pass these tests would be deported.

We will all be safer when all residents have been identified and investigated. And more drug smugglers would be caught when border guards don't have to chase poor men, women and children trying to come in to work and live.

There are many reasons why we need immigration reform and why we all should be happy when we get it. Everyone will benefit when we get a comprehensive immigration reform package passed.


Vince October 26, 2007 9:25 am (Pacific time)

There is no hated in protecting yourself Just a basic need. When all the Hispanic illegal aliens are deported, they work on making their own countries better for them instead of ruining ours!


Terry October 26, 2007 9:13 am (Pacific time)

This is how white people see things, "if it is not white it has to be a criminal." So people like Neal, whom I think he is very rude replying to people, all illegal immigrants are criminals. I find this hard to believe, can you imagine 12 million criminals in this country, we wouldn't be able to walk on the streets fearing to be robe by one of this such call illegal criminals and this is not happening now. So to me saying that illegal immigrants are criminals for looking a better future like our ancestors did back in the dates is just trying to malign them.


Vic October 26, 2007 8:19 am (Pacific time)

My question for Neal is this...does it matter to you how long someone has been here ? My ancestors just floated overe here from England (thank God ) and moved in. We are all illegals and have been since 1786. Or is it a "now that I am here close the door" thing? We should topple that outdated "Statue of Liberty" and replace it with a statue of Ariel Sharon or Stalin. Like Bush, Neal cannot and will not even consider that his opinion may be a bit skewed...He is The Possessor of All Wisdom and all the mortals who question or criticize him be dammned ! :)


Kate October 26, 2007 8:02 am (Pacific time)

Excellent article Neal!Clear, concise and to the point. No malice..completely factual. Go to NumbersUsa(google it). They are an incredibly strong organization that have been instrumental(along with their million active members) in blocking amnesties of any kind(Dream Act/AgJobs etc) from occurring in this country. Immigration reform is needed....but it starts with a fence at the border, and sanctioning employers. I am forwarding with your permission this article to other editorial writers I am in contact with. Great job Neal!


Kate October 26, 2007 7:50 am (Pacific time)

Illegal immigrants are criminals from the moment they crossed the border "illegally", period. They have committed a crime. You are a criminal if you enter this country illegally, and should be arrested and deported. If I stepped on the lawn of the White House, I would be arrested for tresspassing and prosecuted and rightfully so, because I broke the law. I am so tired(big yawn) of illegal immigrants who play the "racist" card to the American, taxpaying, legal, lawabiding citizens of this country who our outraged and fed up with this current government waivering and catering to criminals. We are a nation of laws. It is not "racist" to deport any person from ANY country who broke the laws of this nation and entered this country illegally. My ancestors came to this country "legally"...they were documented, learned the language, spent their money in "this" country(didn't send it back home) and embraced their new homeland. Employers hiring illegal immigrants need to be harshly sanctioned. To all those who came here legally, we embrace you and welcome you with open arms! All those who entered illegally are lawbreakers and need to be deported immediately. Get in line behind those who are doing it the "right" way.


Pirk October 26, 2007 7:30 am (Pacific time)

La Raza is meant to connote "the people". It's not about 'race'. Do your research. And if you wren't meanspirited you wouldn't be talking that way about people who potentially serve your food at the restaurant, or pick your fruits and vegetables, etc. It's selfish to disregard everything they do except for the 'crime' of their entrance. Arguing for law and order is one thing. Showing no humanity is another.


Roy October 26, 2007 7:24 am (Pacific time)

For people of faith that image of one world also deepened our understanding of another central truth of many world religions. As the psalmist penned so many years ago, "The earth is the Lord's and all that is in it." (Psalm 24:1). All of us are only aliens and guests on this beautiful blue-white orb and God is the landlord. This should give us pause about some of the claims we make about the little bits of earth that we call our own. This is why almost all religious leaders in this country have called for immigration reform that does not treat the millions of undocumented immigrants in this country like criminals for wanting to feed their families. For those who read the Jewish Scriptures as the Word of God, it is impossible to scapegoat immigrants when God chose marginalized aliens living in Egypt as "the chosen people." For Christians who worship Jesus as the savior, it is impossible to turn their backs on vulnerable immigrants when the holy family itself was forced to live in exile in Egypt. There are many who hold serious misgivings about the influx of undocumented immigrants in this country. Their objections are grounded in legitimate concerns about the exploitation of undocumented workers and our ability to adequately meet the needs of the growing undocumented community. But, unfortunately, there are many others whose opposition to a compassionate approach to dealing with our broken immigration system is based upon racist stereotypes and fear of non-White immigrant communities. These forces of hatred want to scapegoat the vulnerable and marginalized undocumented immigrant community for political purposes. 3.3 million Immigrants became legalized under President Reagan's immigration reform program of 1986, and subsequently the US had one of most economically successful eras in our history “Washington seems to be thinking only about getting elected, when the United States is in real need of comprehensive immigration reform”,


WE THE PEOPLE October 26, 2007 7:15 am (Pacific time)

BYE BYE ICE AGE IS HERE! Don't even bother posting anything else?


hhl8 October 26, 2007 7:09 am (Pacific time)

Why do they publish this immature poop? Is this an ideology website? That's just pure mean-spiritedness.


cohen October 26, 2007 6:48 am (Pacific time)

This is such a disturbingly bad article that it isn't worth responding to. It is sad to see that in the XXI century there is still so much hatred and fear in this country for anyone who isn't white-anglo-saxon-protestant. Thank God demographic changes that are taking place are irreversible and "good ole boy" America will soon be a thing of the past...


Dave October 26, 2007 4:01 am (Pacific time)

Very accurate and well written. It is amazing to me how many people have so much invested in presenting this as a racial discrimination issue. The racial supremacists who are active in this issue are not white. There is a band from Oregon who recorded a song and made a music video about Mexican/Hispanic supremacy groups, it has audio / video clips of the these rabid racist preaching hate. you guilty white liberals who have no idea what you are talking about really should Google Belligerent Apostle and watch the video.


Kathryn October 26, 2007 2:16 am (Pacific time)

Fantastic article. I agree 100%.


jose October 26, 2007 2:14 am (Pacific time)

Ok, Neal fist you should research before you print all that non sense, any way if the kid is born in America by law he is an American, and that was implemented back int he slave day when an other bunch of red necks like your self didn't allow slave to vote or have a say in the country just work, looks like you want to do it all over again, well Neil America is a better place now the American people learn from that shamefull past so drop it is not going to happen, anyway an American child can't sponsor any one until he/she is 21 not 18 as you suggest, do some homework, but quoting Einstain raisis is ignorance, so I guess I AM ASKING FOR SOMETHING YOU DONT HAVE EDUCATION, CULTURE


ruben October 26, 2007 12:53 am (Pacific time)

Jimmo you need to learn what hatred is this country has laws maybe you think you are above all of us but your not i am half Mexican and i don't see hate i see foreign invaders we need to educate Mexican to the truth America did not steel the land spain ruled Mexico mixing with there population for 500 years so they can not use we are indigenous they are not most all are mixed race


Neal Feldman October 25, 2007 11:57 pm (Pacific time)

Janet - true... but when fools make unjustified accusations and baseless personal attacks in lieu of any coherent and legitimate comment it should be pointed out. But you are right, I think their idiocy speaks for itself. My apologies. Ah well...


Janet October 25, 2007 11:43 pm (Pacific time)

Give it a rest Neal Feldman. You already wrote the commentary.


NOYB October 25, 2007 11:36 pm (Pacific time)

On October 10, 2007, a new study released by Californians for Population Stabilization (CAPS) claims that there are 38 million illegal immigrants living in the United States, a number larger than the 11.6 million illegal immigrants estimated by the Census Bureau and Department of Homeland Security. And we need to import more workers??? Sorry, I can't eat that many strawberies. If you don't belong in this country, GO HOME. You are not welcomed here.


Neal Feldman October 25, 2007 11:28 pm (Pacific time)

Abe - it seems quite apparent that you can quote text without comprehending it. I fail to see anywhere in my position here anything that is not in keeping with basic Wiccan philosophy (also understanding that there is no One True Way of Wicca especially regarding solitary practitioners such as myself). The one basic law is harm none, and I have harmed none. The first law does not require us to be victims or patsies or suckers. It does not require us to allow ourselves to be taken advantage of. The energies I send out are positive... seeking the enforcement of the law for the benefit of those who live by the law. Those who choose to live outside the law I am not required to support or approve of by being Wiccan, as you might know if you really understood anything that you are trying to comment on here. You merely highlight your own ignorance for all to see. And what racism, Abe? I exhibit none. As stated in the article enough for UH60L to see at least I do not care what race an illegal is. That they are an illegal is the issue not their race. And what does sex have to do with race? Are you always this confused and incoherent, Abe? Ah well...


Abe October 25, 2007 11:16 pm (Pacific time)

Apparently, Mr. Feldman, you are not a "good witch" as your website so proclaims for you violate your own Wicca Law. Remember for what it says of The Law:Ever remember that if you would be of our way, keep the Law close to your heart, for it is the nature of the Wicca to keep the Law. Some Wicca Laws you so choose to abandon--there are only 10 -Those of our way are kind to all creatures, for hurtful thoughts are quite draining and aren’t worth the loss of energy. Misery is self-created; so too, is joy, so create joy and disdain misery and unhappiness. And this is within your power. So harm not. -Refrain from speaking ill of others, for not all truths of the matter may be known. -If ever the need arises, any law may be changed and new laws written to replace them, so long as the new laws don’t break the oldest law of all: harm none. Now what so of your Wicca Beliefs: The energies you send out are the same that you will attract. -We do not seek power through the suffering of others, nor accept personal gain through denying something of another. So what gives, why for your Racism? Oh, I almost forgot:Wicca accepts members from both sexes. Racism and prejudice in any form is not in our nature. Mr. Feldman, you need to go back and study a bit on what it means to be Wiccan. You seem to be just posing if what you have written above, is what you really believe.


uh60L October 25, 2007 11:15 pm (Pacific time)

Ahhh, 3 more people who either can't read or don't really care. The guy even stated that his views apply to every illegal no matter what race or home country. But you don't want to hear that. I'm starting to think "illegal alien" is the new "black". If a white person says anything even remotely negative about a black person, the white person is suddenly a racist. Same with illegal aliens. It's like religion, if you don't believe the same way, your wrong no matter what. Also, please show me any person in the U.S. who has earned "a living" picking strawberries. I picked them as a summer job, and that said, it was more like a "two weeks in the summer" job, cause they don't harvest strwberries year roudn in Oregon. My two kids would love to have real summer jobs, but they cannot work until age 16 because they are being protected by the child labor law (aka the give the jobs to illegals law). Not all kids in this country are rich snooty snobs. Some actaully want to work.


Janet October 25, 2007 11:13 pm (Pacific time)

I think most americans, including myself are like you Neal...not anti-immigrant...anti ILLEGAL immigrant. That is the moral of the story.


Neal Feldman October 25, 2007 11:04 pm (Pacific time)

Bernie - Ummm... clearly you did not read my article and comprehend it either. I used the term hispanic. i also stated I do not care where they come from... if they are here illegally I want them gone. Period. Come to the USA legally or do not come at all and there should be absolutely nothing here to benefit an illegal to get them to want to come here or stay here illegally. Get it? Got it? Somehow I doubt it. Ah well...


Neal Feldman October 25, 2007 11:01 pm (Pacific time)

Jules - I do not try and speak for you but the polls clearly show my views are the majority view in this country. Whether you like it or not. I'm not being mean any more than Im being mean expecting anyone else to be held to the rule of law. What makes you think that these illegals should be above the law, hmmm? What makes them so special that they deserve such exalted status? And yes, national sovereignty. Look it up if you do not understand the concept. And how is my position selfish? Where do I personally benefit beyond tax dollars that should benefit those here legally being drained by those here illegally? Am I selfish for wanting murderers, rapists and thugs locked up too? Hmmmm? Or are you just dim? Did you even bother to read the entire article and comprehend it? Ah well...


Neal Feldman October 25, 2007 10:56 pm (Pacific time)

Jimmo - please do not be stupid and please drop the troll baiting BS. There is not one iota of hatred in my article or my position against Mexicans or any of hispanic or any other descent. I stated it right in the article if you had the wit and intellect to actually read and comprehend what was written. I oppose the criminal invasion of my country. Why shouldn't I? Hmmmm? Or are you so absent legitimate response, as it seems to be the case, the best you can manage is a limp at best attempt at redirection? Oklahoma has proven making the environment toxic to illegals gets them to flee. So it is clear the policy will work. Is that why YOU hate the suggestion so much? Are YOU an illegal, Jimmo? Ah well...


Bernie Dominguez October 25, 2007 10:52 pm (Pacific time)

don't you even realize that many of the people you talk about are from Guatemala and farther south? That is why we are called Hispanic, but for you that would be paying too much respect, obviously. You must be full of anxiety writing such hateful stuff, that you say isn't hateful. You are a person full of fear of the unknown, you will never changes anything at all, except add to the hatred, you and Lars Larson, two peas in a pod. Thank you good night.


Jules October 25, 2007 10:52 pm (Pacific time)

"Unwelcome"?? Says who? Don't speak for me or any of my civilized neighbors, I don't know what you're trying to prove. How SELFISH you are perhaps? Good job. You must really really really want to pick strawberries for a living. "National sovereignty"? Are you kidding? Get back to reality man, and put your priorities in order. You're being mean just to be mean. To what end?


Jimmo October 25, 2007 10:45 pm (Pacific time)

What's with all the hatred? What did Mexicans ever do to you?

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