Put the Iraqis in Charge - Salem-News.Com

This article that recently ran in the Oregonian, is one Oregon man's vision of a plan that could bring about much needed change to the war in Iraq.

(PORTLAND, Ore.) - Conservatives know we must send a strong message to the insurgents that the United States will not quit until success is achieved. Liberals know such a message encourages the Iraqi government to play the slacker.

How does the United States create a compelling motivation for the Iraqis while simultaneously demonstrating U.S. fortitude and endurance? Answer: Transfer Baghdad to Iraqi security soon.

The rest of Iraq would be left in the care of the United States. Set the date now. This will create a potent motivation for the Iraqi government to assume its responsibilities.

They will have to stand up, take charge and stop the violence -- out of sheer self-preservation. Sink or swim.

After Baghdad, transfer the remaining towns one by one. The Baghdad transfer would start a process that will eventually achieve stability, force a rough but acceptable ending and get the United States out of harm's way.

The transfer also would operate in a second way, as an ultimatum, as a powerful threat. Get going or the U.S. will set the transfer date.

Indeed, the more draconian, scary or coercive the transfer seems, the greater motivational weight it would carry.

Editor's Note: This is an introduction to a more comprehensive article by James Whinston that will be featured in the coming days here on Salem-News.com. The expanded article explains why his theory would work in Iraq and how this approach best fits the needs of a multitude of interests. He says it is the best answer for a resolution that addresses the real needs of the situation in Iraq.

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Jefferson January 3, 2008 1:06 pm (Pacific time)

Good for you Matt! Glad to see you're finally coming to grips with how the justice system works. Kudos to you buddy, kudos...hehehe

Matt Johnson January 3, 2008 12:19 pm (Pacific time)

That's right, quit saying things about poor Ollie North, he's just as innocent as OJ, be like Jefferson and embrace the court's decisions.

Jefferson January 3, 2008 12:15 pm (Pacific time)

Update for you people who may not be familiar with LTC. North's past legal situation (and maybe Henry/TFI can expand his fund of limited knowledge): He, like most people who have been improperly prosecuted, appealed his case and the convictions were "VACATED!" The appeals court noted that his 5th Amendment rights were violated, among other legal miscues. Note: Even the far left ACLU assisted this Patriot's improper prosecution. LTC. North is a patriot and a war hero; he received the Silver Star, two Purple Hearts and other combat decorations for his "combat" service in Vietnam. Henry/TFI, no doubt a frustrated non-combatant, and Audie Murphy wannabe, who because of a bum eye was kept out of battle, simply cannot appreciate this individual and his accomplishments because he does not like those "who do" what "non-doers" like him do not do...nothing! As far as his approximate 12 trips to Iraq (how many to Afghanistan?), and Henry/TFI is questioning who paid for the trips? Now that sure sounds important!

Jefferson January 3, 2008 10:02 am (Pacific time)

AmericaRising.org...right on!

Godsofchaos January 2, 2008 7:32 pm (Pacific time)

"not very bright."Jefferson You forget insane.

Jefferson January 2, 2008 6:56 pm (Pacific time)

Godofchaos I unfortunately do understand what Henry/TFI is doing? The far left's main tactic is to claim some kind of conspiracy, doesn't matter if it makes sense, they just create one. If it isn't catching on, then they create a new one, and on and on. Henry/TFI's impact is only in is mind, and I guess, heck, let the guy ramble, but please note how he demonizes those who keep him safe...not very bright.

AmericaRising.org January 2, 2008 6:41 am (Pacific time)

Leave it to the libtards! Wake Up!!! Let the military and the military leaders fight the battle. STOP PLAYING POLITICS WITH OUR SOLDIERS. The U.S. Armed Forces is an ALL volunteer force! For the morons that say its all about oil, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND!!! Get a life you arm chair generals and let the real soldiers fight the battle. Read a history book and stop getting your so-called facts from the media and your hippie college teachers! It is your libtard thinking that brought about the deaths of millions after we left Viet Nam not to mention the millions of Jews and millions of christans that were murdered by Hitler.

Godsofchaos January 1, 2008 8:04 pm (Pacific time)

"To all: Naturally, first two questions to North will be: 1. What was your salary when you worked for Reagan ? 2. What is your salary from present "news agency" employer for whom you journeyed to Iraq recently. Others practically automatic given the situation, but will submit all in advance to make sure nobody can claim unfair surprise. When do we go, N-N ? Will you sit in ? I have a tv-news colleague with wellknown connections who has already asked to do so... No fees involved, you understand, for us OR for North, which probably will be unacceptable to him."Henry Ruark Think you are on wrong thread. I don't see which post you are talking about.

Henry Ruark January 1, 2008 3:27 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Naturally, first two questions to North will be: 1. What was your salary when you worked for Reagan ? 2. What is your salary from present "news agency" employer for whom you journeyed to Iraq recently. Others practically automatic given the situation, but will submit all in advance to make sure nobody can claim unfair surprise. When do we go, N-N ? Will you sit in ? I have a tv-news colleague with wellknown connections who has already asked to do so... No fees involved, you understand, for us OR for North, which probably will be unacceptable to him.

Henry Ruark January 1, 2008 2:36 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Dunno whether here or in another thread, N-N reported he was sending my Comment re North to North's email address. He also mentioned North has made a number of trips to Iraq recently --which should have rapidly triggered my reporter curiousity to ask who paying for trips, whether he now ==AGAIN !!== under command from our Armed Services, or one of our "intelligence" agencies --you will forgive that use of intelligence,please ! If EITHER, rather than assigned and paid-for by corrupt news organization for which he now "works", on basis of his Reagan-action notoriety alone,that is hell of a story any legitimate news agency or publication will pay huge sum for, rapidly and with smile. IF on other hand, it is only as assignment for his "news"-agency contract, again it represents intentional distortion/perversion by N-N. I await response, and will gladly welcome any possible contact, via any media or channel, with North personally, since I have several rather sharp questions in mind for him, face to face, or otherwise.

Henry Ruark January 1, 2008 12:07 pm (Pacific time)

GofC et al: "A debate on any war always ends up in politics." You may have meant the reverse, which is totally true across the pages of history: "A debate in politics often ends in war, these days, to protect the originating politicians." That is surely the widely recognized status in today's war, with inescapable and absolutely undeniable factual reporting clearly showing that this one was matter of open political choice, openly stated long prior to propaganda process to sell to deluded public, on distorted and perverted media-supported basis.

Henry Ruark January 1, 2008 10:36 am (Pacific time)

Karen S.: Do you s'pose those sources you seek might, just perhaps, be in a position of providing information distorted/perverted by self-interest and career protection ? We are fortunate to have tested, credible report, perhaps confirmation, perhaps otherwise, coming up since Tim is planning return to this "war" area soon. Perhaps, too, it might be wise to rely on veterans now returning, rather than career commandos already compromised by factual definition of very obvious nature. Few in such situations can be relied on for reasonable and rational action, as Gen. Smedley Butler's own statement and record clearly indicates. Perhaps Neocon Nonentity will share with us what it is that Butler declared about the entire action of war-making, even then for "empire-building purposes".

Godsofchaos January 1, 2008 9:20 am (Pacific time)

"Fewer political ones."Karen Swanson A debate on any war always ends up in politics. Since the politicians are usually the ones that make the decision to go to war.I think a better phrase would have been is less partisanship.

Vic January 1, 2008 8:53 am (Pacific time)

I see where some of us believe that the military should decide how long we stay in Iraq and how much we are involved, etc....thats great when the military can PAY for it. Those who whine about the citizens of this alleged democracy having say over the military need to remember that this is a democracy, not a military dictatorship. No one group should get to lead this country into ruin ..not the right, the left, nor the military-industrial complex. And you cheerleaders for the war...how would you react to having foreign troops in your town? Would you mind them kicking in your doors, searching your family, setting up roadblocks, shooting up your streets, etc? Would you be an "insurgent" or would you just roll over and kiss their asses? I would resist any way I could, and most of you know you would too. All of you who are trying to polish the turd of invasion/occupation/destruction and call it an apple are a sad lot. I think the same strategy being used on the Iraqis..create discord and internal strife..get them to fight each other....is also being used on us. As long as the Left hates the Right, the straights hate the homos, the Right hates the lefties, the citizens hate the non-citizens...we will not see the big picture. This is a class war...the Haves vs the Have-Nots (98% of us).

Henry Ruark January 1, 2008 7:47 am (Pacific time)

To all: For the public record here, N-N initiated ongoing exchange of opprobrium, insult and other excoriations by his own actions re an Op Ed or two I wrote. He was invited 20 times, on record, to submit own Op Ed. He was invited to send Bonnie photo from service, to document his claim. He was invited to submit resume showing credibilities, accountabilities, et al. I sought from Tim action to hold N-N to discussion of issues, deflate or delete personal professional attack. ONLY when it became clear that nothing more was to be done, and when domination and and damage to open, honest, democratic channel was occurring, did I then resort to same tactics --after warning to S-N owners I felt forced to do so. Review here will show my constant emphasis on "see with own eyes", with sources and links, and encouragement to "evaluate with own brain", rather than swallow mine or any other single statement of "opinion" --which, in professional publication terms, is always based on more than "belly-button feeling" translated into words reflecting that feeling. Neocon attack on open channel situations such as this one, courageously provided by Bon and Tim, is now occurring nationwide. It is being documented as part of ongoing "Noise Machine for GOP", now captured by the neocon cabal of Bush I continued into Bush-Cheney II. Several leaders in that ongoing noise machine effort have written revealing books showing precisely what is now reported to you here. For full documentation just request it from Editor Tim, with full ID, and I will supply to the extent my now-being/culled 40 year writer's files permit. SO you pays you monies here and gets the channel you choose to allow to be built. That's inexorable history in all recorded communications --leading me to observe that "Truth will set you free --if you can identify it and appreciate it enough to protect it when offered." "See with own eyes" and then act "with own brain" is surely one tested, proven, effective way to do so...beats out all the demand to listen only to one viewpoint, from one source, supported by vituperation, personal attack, and repeated obfuscation.

Henry Ruark January 1, 2008 6:32 am (Pacific time)

To all: Understand Editor Tim seeking some further contributions of Op Ed-writing, especially from anyone unafraid of ID as public guarantee of credibility, accountability, and past record of publication. That's usual route to any acceptance of comprehensive and believable presentation to the standards of journalism, including balance and what is sometimes considered "objectivity". On point of ("objectivity") will provide short-shot from Molly Ivins later today, to make sure you-all get surely non-"verbose" version, too. Meanwhile has anyone checked on those grand-daughters ?

Karen Swanson January 1, 2008 12:49 am (Pacific time)

Thanks, Jefferson, for stepping in, I had not checked back since I posted my comment to see that others thought I perhaps needed to take advantage of a learning opportunity, hahahahaha!! Del Dieve Meile!! I am merely leaving a comment! Maybe you can learn what language that was and which dialect. Jefferson, obviously, you and I and SPC in the Army are sticking with the subject of the article. I appreciate your comments. The others are doing exactly what I didn't want to do--they are bleeding partisanship. That will get us nowhere in Iraq. We need resources to look into this suggestion that are knowledgable. So I am glad to hear from the SPC in the Army! Now a comment from the General would be nice. He may be busy, though. More military comments, please!! Fewer political ones.

Godsofchaos December 31, 2007 7:38 pm (Pacific time)

"Poor dear."Jefferson I feel sorry for him sometimes too. He needs to learn to respect people that disagree with him and realize that his worldview is not the only one.

Jefferson December 31, 2007 2:54 pm (Pacific time)

Karen (and others), what Henry/TFI just wrote is that your opinions mean nothing! Just more traits oozing out that reinforce the narcissistic personality assessment. He cannot ever allow you to challenge his "all-knowing" intellect, he just can't. Poor dear.

Henry Ruark December 31, 2007 11:57 am (Pacific time)

To all: "Opinion" is worth just what the speaker makes it from own credibility and accountability. When sniping from behind tree a la N-N, after disclosures in own words re attitudes, experiences and working background, one knows any statement comes from a person close to waterboarding and to military necessities no longer permitting rational thought --except perhaps with finger-on-trigger, as with demeaning, attacking, unprofessional and credibility destroying behaviors here. SO read and learn, using own eyes and brain, rather than relying on rot, rant, rage, and lack of responsibilities. We still await longcontinued invitation to him to do own Op Ed, which requires him to ID self to editor. Don't hold breath while waiting...!!

Jefferson December 31, 2007 8:45 am (Pacific time)

Karen your assessment was right on...listen to the professionals, afterall that's why we have them. Some people, e.g. , Henry/TFI, I am sure mean well, but their limited ability to understand something they have no experience with, seems to compell them to state uninformed and nonsensical statements. They seem to prefer distraction over empirical focus...I am glad some of the poster's did not flame you for your intelligent observation(s).

Henry Ruark December 31, 2007 5:33 am (Pacific time)

To all: Definite improvement in dialog tone and content here, for all to see... Thank you all, and go it, friends ! We CAN, should and MUST NOW learn from each other, as did the Founders in their day, with due regard for 21st Century changes denied and defied by others with malign damage to democracy in their sights, mostly for dollar-determined reasons easy to detect.

Vic December 30, 2007 6:51 pm (Pacific time)

Good points, Tim and GodsofChaos...the degree of security required for Bush to go anywhere seems to be historic. What would I do if was Karzai? Get the hell outta there...and hope that any future leaders would see the price of being a traitor. We wouldnt settle for a puppet leader appointed by a foreign govt, would we? I think many Afghans think of him that way.

Godsofchaos December 30, 2007 2:12 pm (Pacific time)

"Thanks for listening."Tim King Thanks for commenting. I always look forward to hearing your point of veiw,even though we have disagreements I find your civil adituide in debates refreshing.

Tim King December 30, 2007 1:12 pm (Pacific time)

GodsofChaos: Thanks for clarifying that part then, I was not taking issue with anything but those exact points. Having said that, I totally agree with you that "is a very violent place to live right now". Thanks for listening.

Henry Ruark December 30, 2007 1:12 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Nothing like hearing from one who has "been there, done that" and reports honestly, cleanly, completely what was seen, heard, experienced --and understood. What a relief from that other line of b....s... we've been subject to now for some time, while only action is sniping from behind tree. Honest, open channel deserves full support from all readers of all three classes we have here for sure: Thinkers, ready to "see with own eyes", cogitate when needed; others seeking passing chance to participate, sometimes without full responsibilities; and the last group, for which we all weep" the Woefully/Deprived, whose Comments illuminate all too clearly what's meant by W/D. Which are YOU ? Seek out mirror and read-back to self that last one you sent...

Godsofchaos December 30, 2007 12:54 pm (Pacific time)

"I was at the Kabul Military Training Center for a visit of Afghanistan's Vice President Karim Khalili and he did not arrive with a convoy of American soldiers, he arrived in a convoy of Afghan Presidential escorts."Tim King My bad I thought he still used American soliders as his body guards which if I was a leader would pick them over local miltias. "GodsofChaos: In all fairness there are no presidents in that section of the world or any other for that matter, that travel around without an armed escort, surely you agree with that."Tim King True but to overlook the fact that most third world countrys leader have a far less life excpetancey than that of a U.S.A. sentor. "They think they are "reclaiming" the country of their family's birth, but most are not "from" Afghanistan."Tim King All I was saying is the middle east is a very vioilent place to live right now.

SPC in US ARMY via BAGHDAD December 30, 2007 12:49 pm (Pacific time)

I would like to address the people who enjoy having their armchair opinions. Walk down the streets of Baghdad and tell me you will say the same? My opinion...Baghdad is the last place we should leave, and leaving right now would create a vacuum that even I would dare to think of the ramifications. When these people start killing each other by the thousands, the same people who say get out of Iraq will be screaming HELP THOSE PEOPLE. Many of you only get stuck on the idea of oil and money; that is sad and unfortunate because all wars have a more human side to it. You speak of our intentions in Afghanistan; do you know what the number one export is? I will give you a hint, its not oil. The money you complain about the GOVT spending... is going to vehicles and body armor so that my fellow troopers and I can see our families again. I enjoy living in democracy and having the freedom to speak ones mind is something that all people should be entitled to. Please remember those freedoms don’t come free….

Tim King December 30, 2007 12:16 pm (Pacific time)

GodsofChaos: In all fairness there are no presidents in that section of the world or any other for that matter, that travel around without an armed escort, surely you agree with that. I was at the Kabul Military Training Center for a visit of Afghanistan's Vice President Karim Khalili and he did not arrive with a convoy of American soldiers, he arrived in a convoy of Afghan Presidential escorts.

This is the report in fact: Afghanistan Vice-President Visits Army Boot Camp in Kabul (VIDEO)

That Afghan VP motorcade did in fact travel through the streets of Kabul without any kind of a problem at all. As a reporter who has spent time in-country, please understand that most Afghan people are wonderful human beings who only wish the best for all. They have lived with war for so long, all they want is peace. I have written about this extensively, but most of the Taliban and other Anti-Coalition militias are from Pakistan. They are the sons of Afghans who fled the Soviet occupation in the 1980's and their son's minds are poisoned by the mullah's in Pakistan. They think they are "reclaiming" the country of their family's birth, but most are not "from" Afghanistan.

The extremists are religious zealots and like in this country, they cause most of the political discourse with distractions. Here it is abortion, there it is "religious infidelity" but it is all the same in that it divides the people and distracts us from the business of coping with the situation at hand. That is my primary clarification I wanted to make.

The statement "because he cannot trust his own people" is unfair. You live in a country where the President is loathed by a far larger percentage than the considerably smaller aspect that love him, and that is gauged the same by any poll. Could George W. Bush walk around this country without an armed escort? I think he would last about a millisecond. Does that mean everything we are doing is failed and wrong? Well maybe it does in this case, but my point is that you can not assess the success of a country by whether or not the entire population would let a president escape from a crowd unscathed.

Henry Ruark December 30, 2007 12:12 pm (Pacific time)

Karen et al: Unfortunately this is not democratic situation permitting polling and possible alternatives, but demanding and deteriorating war-situation created by desperate and irresponsible neocon cabal seeking to build permanent possession of oil, at any cost. We do well to await rest of series before making full judgement, and I will seek to do so in depth, open for others to evaluate, later. That's what open, honest, democratic dialog is meant to do, in the Dewey "learning mode" he characterized as: "Conversation is foundation for democracy" - built on his assessment of Founders process revealed in depth in Federalist Papers, and still realistically useful today, as 21st Century creates inevitable "new challenging situations" for every democracy, especially ours.

Godsofchaos December 30, 2007 11:46 am (Pacific time)

"Yep, and Karzai cannot go anywhere outside of his presidential fortress without an escort of American soldiers...not Afghanis because he cannot trust his own people. That is how popular he is. I wouldnt say that is doing quite well."Vic Yeah because being a polictical leader that isn't anti-west is so easy to do in the middle east. "and Karzai cannot go anywhere outside of his presidential fortress without an escort of American soldiers"Vic Why don't you put yourself in his shoes Vic? If you were a middle eastern leader ,who is seen as a pawn to the infidal america, would you want America soliders that are highly trained,have the best equipment in the world,and have far less odds of killing you through assasianstion or would you like to have more poorly trained, lacking in equipment department, and have much higher odds killing you with a suicide bomb as your bodyguards? "not Afghanis because he cannot trust his own people."Vic Of course he can't trust his own people would you?I mean it is one of the most violent places in the world for a reason. "That is how popular he is."Vic Unless he openly oppsoses america he will never be popular. That part of the world hates us.Especially since they percive us as helping Iserial. "I wouldnt say that is doing quite well."Vic So what do you suggest Vic? The man is a very percausious sitiuation.

Vic December 30, 2007 8:17 am (Pacific time)

" President Karzai and his government have risen to the challenge of running a country and have done quite well at it." Yep, and Karzai cannot go anywhere outside of his presidential fortress without an escort of American soldiers...not Afghanis because he cannot trust his own people. That is how popular he is. I wouldnt say that is doing quite well.

Henry Ruark December 30, 2007 7:21 am (Pacific time)

Vic et al: Thanks for receptive attitude, demanded for any continuing success in this open channel dependent on an overwhelming personal sense of responsibilities to self and others. Re Gen. Butler, he was also rescuer of our democracy when he revealed superrich family conspiracy to kill FDR and substitute fascistic dictator,himself, chosen by family representatives. We have same cabal at work now, with evidence right here in this channel.

Karen Swanson December 30, 2007 7:19 am (Pacific time)

It all sounds marvelous to me, but honestly, I would favor the opinion of the military on this one. Most notably, I would want to hear what someone like General Petraeus and a good sampling of the troops thought about it who actually have been in the area recently, holding the hands of the Iraqis. I trust their judgment. I haven't been there myself. It can all sound great on paper, but until you've been there and dealt with the logistics, it's hard to know all the "what ifs". More opinions are needed from the right people, not from liberals vs. conservatives.

Spyder December 29, 2007 11:24 pm (Pacific time)

This is the only solution to a policy gone wrong, The Iraqis want us out and the big corporations want us to stay, War= Money and to put the icing on the cake, theres oil too. Bush and his administration needs to send a clear message to that selfish, Narcissistic clan of wannabe politicians in Iraq to get a grip and stand up now.

Regan December 29, 2007 10:59 pm (Pacific time)

This idea could very well achieve the ultimate goal of a free and democratic Iraq. Once we (America) stop holding the hands of the government, they will be forced, as you said, to sink or swim. This idea has been tried and proven in Afghanistan. We are there helping, but not in regards to the politics. President Karzai and his government have risen to the challenge of running a country and have done quite well at it. As a side note, I am so tired of hearing that this war is about oil. If it was about anything other than freedom from a dictator, then the reason would have to be unfinished business. We didn't finish the job last time, but this time we will. God bless the troops and their families.

Vic December 29, 2007 1:35 pm (Pacific time)

I agree with this approach, but the author is assuming that the US government wants out of Iraq. The citizens for the most part do, but that does not matter one iota. We will probably be in Iraq as long as they have oil...we wouldnt be there now if they did not. And there is too much money to be made in the military-industrial complex for our alleged representatives to ever pull the plug on this cash cow.Every time a cruise missile blows up a tent or a mud village in Afghanistan, Raytheon makes 1 1/2 million dollars. Boeing, General Dynamics, Halliburton are all guilty of perpetuating and encouraging war for profit. "War is a racket" Gen. Smedley Butler USMC

Henry Ruark December 29, 2007 9:30 am (Pacific time)

To all: We should welcome the Whinston concept of demanded action in Iraq. Publication here, in honest and open democratic dialog channel, cannot but further the sensible, sensitive, reasonable, rational consideration of a major issue, for which democratic dialog, in the true Dewey conversational mode, has proven its worth ever since the Founders first assumption of usage in the Federalist Papers. Do not be put off or deluded by to-be-expected rapid-attack from neocon sources; this open, honest, dialog-dealing modus operandi has proven to be the death to their dollar-driven propaganda modes for many years --when Congress still acted for commonweal and not corporate interests, via prevailing crony capitalism.

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