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Aug-19-2022 02:24TweetFollow @OregonNews The Climate Front: People Who Live There, with Attorney John MeyerRobert Lundahl special to Salem-News.com“There's no logging project that's an economic winner for the public.” -John Meyer
(LOS ANGELES, Calif.) - Two landmark judgments have come down that have altered perceptions about stewardship and systems thinking in Montana’s outdoor paradise. The latter, a 2012 determination by the District Court and the Ninth Circuit, validated by the Supreme Court, limits old growth timber sales across 12 million acres, within the habitat of the Canada Lynx. The former, spotlighting impacts to rivers and streams, from over irrigating with reclaimed “treated sewage” on golf courses and resort and housing properties, some, the playgrounds of America’s best known business leaders and celebrities. Both are informed by a growing awareness of the new information provided by climate science on species and habitats. As the stakes rise, Attorney John Meyer, Executive Director of the Cottonwood Environmental Law Center confides, “We won the case in the court of law, but we're learning that the court of law is not enough. You have to win the court of public opinion.” It has been my honor to interview John, who carries responsibility as a traditional sportsman in Montana Big Sky country, the son of a hard working blue collar mom, skier, hunter, and heartfelt advocate for the land and for protection of natural systems, rivers and old growth forests. EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEWRobert Lundahl: John Meyer: You were just telling me that you settled a very important case; it's a Clean Water Act case. I'd like to know more about that case and how that was disposed this week. John Meyer: That resort has a golf course and they irrigate the golf course with treated sewage, and the problem is that they're over irrigating the golf course and all that nitrogen and the treated sewage is leaching into the groundwater and then it hits the river – and when it hits the river you get algae blooms and it kills the fish and it's ugly. It's bad for the river. And so we filed the clean water act lawsuit and the Spanish Peaks Resort has agreed to limit the amount of treated sewage it uses to irrigate the golf course as well as it's going to replace the liner in the holding ponds. The liner and the holding ponds are ripped and all that treated sewage is leaking through the liner and also reaching the groundwater so this is a big win for clean water in southwest Montana. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: We're really working hard to collaborate with individuals and communities to really talk about the values that at risk here by over development in southwest Montana. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: They're not just over irrigating the golf course, they're also spraying their treated sewage on fields everywhere, and it's polluting our river terribly. A lot of these folks want to protect the river, I think they just don't know what's happening because they're shielded from what's really happening by their handlers or whoever. I don't think they really have a good feel of what's happening on the ground so that's where we're trying to really get the message to the members of the Yellowstone Club saying, “Hey we appreciate what you do, we really like the fact you care about the environment, but we need you to really step up and hold this private resort community accountable so that you're not polluting our river. "We want you to be part of our community but in order to do that you need to be responsible and you need to be educated, and we need you to stand up with us.” Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: If they knew – if these multi-millionaires knew that their club was polluting the river, they would never allow that to happen. It's just a matter of getting the message out to those folks. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: It's not impossible, we just showed it as possible with this last settlement so now it's a matter of asking them, "Why aren't they going to protect the river?" Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: The issue that I see our country facing is one of over consumption. Everyone talks about climate change but the problem of climate change is driven by over consumption. If we stop consuming as much as we do, we're not going to have nearly the impacts on the climate that we're having right now – and everyone then says well we need to what are we going to do about the economy we have to continue growing the economy... jobs jobs jobs... we need to think. We need to hit the timeout. Hit the pause button and take a timeout and talk about how we're going to restructure our economy in such a way that we're not exacerbating the impacts of climate change. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: People sometimes say “jobs versus the environment” and that is becoming more and more true to the point where we are having an environment where people can't live. People can't recreate anymore. There are scientific studies coming out from the US EPA and other agencies saying we have fish changing sexes because of the pharmaceutical pollution in the in the treated wastewater. So we need to stop and really think long and hard about what we want the planet to look like in 100 years, 50 years if you have kids. We can't buy our way out of this, we have to really stop and slow down and say, “do I need this?” A few years back I was with my wife and I told her, “Hey I really want to buy a new pair of skis,” and she said, "do you need a new pair of skis?” and it was just like a punch the right on the nose, you know, yeah, and I had to admit I don't need a new pair of skis. I wanted a new pair of skis, but there's a huge difference between wants and needs. We need to start to develop that mentality in everything we do. I might want a new house in Yellowstone Club. I might want a new car. I might want whatever, but do I need that? Do I really need a new vacation house in the awesome club? Do I really need a new car? It's just a matter of wants and needs. If we're going to solve the climate crisis we really need to talk about this at an individual level, that's not to say that the government doesn't have any responsibility to step up for climate change, to address climate change, but we also need individuals to do their part. It's going to take an “all hands on deck” approach. We can't solve it with just Biden. We can't solve it with just individuals. It takes everybody, Democrat, Republican, Independent, I don't care how you vote. If you are concerned about clean water, if you're concerned about a livable planet in the future, we all need to sit down and talk about how we're going to solve this problem. Robert Lundahl: It had become a kind of symbol, and gosh that was 20 years ago, so I think from what you're saying, the framing of this argument has changed absolutely. It's not so rabid. John Meyer: Now you hear farmers in rural Montana being concerned about not having water for their crops, destroying the agricultural sector. You hear about ice caps melting. You hear about towns going underwater. I mean this is impacting humans on an individual basis every single day, so we're taking it out of the abstract, out of the “fufu” environmentalist realm and bringing it really home. Really close to people, and when it really hits home then you can't deny it. And so this is a great opportunity for people who work in the conservation community to partner with non-traditional allies and other partners. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: So you see the one tree right here, the orange tree that is the only tree in the photo that's gonna be standing after they are finished logging. That orange paint means don't cut the tree down. So everything that is not painted orange in this photo behind me is going to be logged in the next year. We're in court right now asking the judge to stop this old growth timber sale because the Forest Service has not adequately addressed how this logging is going to impact or exacerbate climate change. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: Now when the US Forest Service approved of this old growth timber sale they said all the trees are going to grow back the forests are going to remain for us, but this new science says trees are not going to grow back when we log them, and so that only underscores the importance of protecting the old growth forests across the United States. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: Robert Lundahl: What happens to the forest floor? What happens to the species like the Marbled Murrelet you know in the coastal areas that nest in old growth and they you poop on the forest floor and contribute to the growth of ferns and lichens, the sinking of carbon and the promotion of fungi and bacteria that create a living soil and allow the forest to thrive? And live? Because of its complexity at the soil level? What do you see there in Montana regarding the complexity and biodiversity of old growth forests? I presume what you're talking about is when the forest is cut then there's more sunlight exposure to the forest floor and things dry out. John Meyer: I grew up hunting, and I still hunt to feed my family. I deer hunt, elk hunt and if there are huge openings where trees are not growing back, you're not gonna see herds of elk hanging out in those openings. Elk like cover. I say that because in Montana we're a relatively purple state and so hunters in many ways are practically, they spend a lot of time in the forest and they – can they have their finger on the pulse of what's going on and so if hunters say something's not right here people tend to stop and listen more than if it's a non-hunter. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: Canada Lynx is listed as a threatened species and the Lynx are really special because they have massive paws, back paws are huge, and it allows them to travel over deep snow, and so there are virtually no other predators that can travel in deep snow in the winter. Grizzly bears are hibernating, bobcats can't travel in deep snow because they don't have big paws, wolves aren't in deep snow, coyotes are in deep snow, I mean there's nothing else in deep snow except for Canada Lynx and their prey which is a Snowshoe Hare, so Snowshoe Hare and Canada Lynx have evolved together, with snow obviously. It's an evolutionary adaptation that allows them to get away from other predators and that evolutionary adaptation is being lost with climate change because we're not having snow anymore, not the way we used to. That's just one example of how we can see the impacts of climate change destroying, unraveling our entire ecosystem. Robert Lundahl: Is it generally supported or do we have you know like you were saying with the developers and housing, are they just, just going for it, or is there a broader perspective? John Meyer: People are coming to Montana because they want to see our wildlife, because they want to hike in our old growth forest. People are not coming to Montana for our clearcuts. And I think that a lot of our elected officials are in denial. I mean we have a very aging white population of people in power and they're holding on to power, and they want to. They're in denial that times are changing. Right now there are people in Montana legislature who don't believe in climate change. We have a US Senator, Steve Daines, who is in denial about climate change. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: "We can't put the species at risk because you want to go cut down trees because your grandfather used to. You're having disproportionate impacts on human beings, and that's not okay to prop up some dying culture that is not sustainable, because we're not living in the 1800s anymore.” I don't say that lightly because I'm the first person in my family to graduate from college. My mom used to cut slabs of steel. She was the first female day laborer to cut steel in Northwest Indiana, and so she come home black is a piece of coal after work every day. She used to work 16-hour shifts all the time so I understand the value of hard work. I understand the idea of blue-collar labor. But I also understand that we need to quickly adapt if we're going to survive as a species. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: I think that the death of the timber industry came from being too efficient. Once, you'd take a team of 20 men and horses to go and cut down trees by hand and pull them all out with horses. Now, one guy can do the work of 10 people in a half an hour when you have machines, just wiping, mowing down forests, and that mechanized timber removal is not sustainable. If we got people back in the woods to cut down trees, I think that's far more sustainable than what we have now with a bunch of machines just mowing everything down. That is not sustainable, and so if we want more jobs, more timber jobs, we need to get the machines out of the woods and get humans back in there. Robert Lundahl: My mom and dad went out to the desert because it was a refuge after World War II, you know, for soldiers who were suffering from PTSD and so forth and they were settling in Los Angeles, and so there's multiple values of wild lands and you know, “mechanized destruction followed,” which I think you know, creates a trauma response from communities. What about the tribes, how do they feel about this? John Meyer: My sense is that the tribes are supportive of new technology, supportive of new jobs that can help address climate change, supportive of solar, wind, those sorts of industries. Tribes understand that we cannot operate the way we used to operate. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: And the District Court agreed with us and said there was political interference in the designation of critical habitat for Canada Lynx. When that came out- that a high-ranking political official interfered with the critical habitat designation, the court told the US Forest Service to go back and ensure that its management plans would protect this newly designated critical habitat. And so we stopped timber sales, most timber sales, across 12 million acres for five or ten years. And right now the big US Senate, the Senate is talking about weakening the endangered species act in response to that case we won. We won the case in District Court, the Ninth Circuit affirmed the District Court and then the US Forest Service petitioned the US Supreme Court to rehear the case and the US Supreme Court would not re-hear the case. They said the District Court and the Ninth Circuit all got it right. So we won the case in the court of law, but we're learning that the court of law is not enough. You have to win the court of public opinion. The US Senators have a huge microphone and we're really trying to educate the public about the importance of protecting our National Forest, protecting old growth, not only for endangered species but also for human beings, because we all rely on National Forests for clean healthy air and climate. Robert Lundahl: Do you have a pollution, air pollution problem in Bozeman now because of the popularity? John Meyer: Fear is a very powerful motivator for people to act and so the US Forest Service says we need to log these forests because if we don't, wildfire is going to make everything terrible and people say, “okay okay.” But in reality the science says that the chance of a fire running into one of these logged areas is about one percent, so we're cutting down all these trees, we're losing all this carbon, the trees are not growing back and the chance of that timber sale actually mitigating against fire is relatively small and so it's again a matter of trying to educate the public, and educate the elected officials. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: Democracy typically responds to issues slowly, and that is where litigation comes in because we don't have to get a majority of the US Senate to agree with us that climate change is a huge issue and we need to protect old growth immediately. We have a small organization we can file lawsuits and protect those areas and that's what we're trying to do is start this major community dialogue, national dialogue, about the importance of protecting old growth right now. We can't wait for Joe Manchin to get educated on the impacts of protecting old growth forests, we need we need to operate quickly and efficiently, and we cannot do that with US Senators who are beholden to special interests. Robert Lundahl: And like you said, you're a hunter, you live there, you know what labor is and how people have always worked the land and these kinds of things, so this seems like a big responsibility for you personally and for Cottonwood Environmental Law Center to step up and take the heat. Do you just have any thoughts on that what would you say to inspire other young attorneys or people that may be interested in following in your footsteps? John Meyer: Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: Right now Senator Tester is in favor of weakening the Endangered Species Act, and I decided if we can flip Senator Tester, uh, we can protect the Endangered Species Act and really start moving forward in terms of addressing climate change. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: It doesn't cost money to protect old growth. Logging costs taxpayers money. All these old growth timber sales are taxpayer subsidized, so if we want to save money and we want to address climate change, stop the old growth logging, protect old growth. That's the easiest, fastest, most effective way to address climate change: protect our National Forests & we fight climate change. It's really simple, we don't need to over-think it. We don't need to invest a bunch of money. We can save a bunch of money and protect our natural resources and ultimately that is going to not only save money but make money for all the states because again people are coming to Montana, Oregon, Idaho, the Pacific Northwest, for our natural resources, for our old growth forest, they're not coming to see clear cuts. They want to see what's left of the natural world, and we have it, and we need to protect it. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: You can do that by talking to your elected officials and demanding as they take action to protect our trees, because if we protect the trees, the trees are going to protect us. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: We lose that money, and that doesn't include the cost of loss of ecosystem services. We need to maybe monetize the value, the economic value of how old growth trees are sequestering carbon. Carbon mitigating against climate change that analysis is never analyzed or calculated in the economic analysis when to start and talk about how that is a money loser for the American public. You punch in the roads, and those logging roads dump a bunch of sediment in the rivers, and that sediment clogs and chokes the river. You lose all the oxygen in the river. Fish can't lay eggs. Fish can't breathe. You lose fish species, and all these logged out areas, I mean that's a money loser every time. There's no logging project that's an economic winner for the public. Robert Lundahl: John Meyer: It's really important that we protect what we have left- everywhere. _________________________________________
Join Cottonwood Environmental Law Center, to support clean water and old growth forests in Montana and beyond. PHOTO CREDITS:
2Canada Lynx; courtesy: kdee64 (Keith Williams) - Flickr 3Illustration of a Canadian Lynx made around mid-18th century; courtesy: Unknown author (recherche-collection) 4The snowshoe hare is the primary prey of the Canada Lynx; courtesy: NPS Photo/Jacob W. Frank 5Video Credit: Cottonwood Environmental Law Center, www.cottonwoodlaw.org 6All of the trees in this photo that are not painted orange will be cut down as part of the Bozeman Municipal Watershed project. Cottonwood is working to stop this old growth logging. Courtesy: Cottonwood Environmental Law Center, www.cottonwoodlaw.org 7Golf course at Spanish Peaks Mountain Club resort. Courtesy: www.golfingmontana.com 8December 13, 2021: Cottonwood and other groups protested the Forest Service’s old growth logging in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. Courtesy: Cottonwood _________________________________________
Attorney John Meyer, founder and Executive Director of Cottonwood. John received an undergraduate degree in biology and Spanish from the University of Montana before working as a seasonal biologist for the Flathead and Tongass National Forests. John graduated with honors from Vermont Law School in 2009. After graduation, John lived in his yurt without running water or electricity in southwest Montana for more than five years to get Cottonwood Environmental Law Center started. He practices law because he wants his sons to have the opportunity to hunt wild bison on public lands and ski on glaciers in Montana. _________________________________________
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An actual scientist March 20, 2024 8:32 pm (Pacific time)
I am sorry, but I had to laugh most of the way through this article. Much of my career as a biologist has been working in watershed ecology. The photos used in this story to represent old growth are actually second growth fir. So right off the bat you are misrepresenting what an old growth forest is. I am all for protecting old growth, but purposefully misleading readers is not acceptable. The author should have known better. Further, elk do not forage in dense stands of timber unless they are pushed out of their prime open habitat. Articles like this are actual damaging our forests via misrepresentation of the habitat in question. What we should be discussing is the major impact on forest fires due to lack of forest thinning across much of the west. Ask any qualified forest ecologist about forest health and they will agree. There are many out of the way national forests that have been safe from massive fires because the scientists are able to manage the fire and forest ecology without the interference of environmentalists. It is time for the science to be believed instead of the very untrustworthy environmentalists.
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