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Sep-24-2007 11:46printcommentsVideo

What is Ahmadinejad's Point? (VIDEO)

The Iranian leader has been called many things, but he raises a point that is worthy of discussion.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Photo courtesy: Coordination Forum for Countering Antisemitism

(SALEM, Ore.) - As the debate rages over Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's visit to Columbia University today, a simple point made by this controversial man endures. In this video clip with NBC's Brian Williams, Ahmadinejad makes the point more than once, "Why did the Palestinian people have to pay for what happened during the Holocaust?"

The man is offensive without any doubt, and while he does not deny the existence of the Holocaust directly in this interview, he constantly uses the word "if" to describe the historic event.

But still, his underlying point goes on unanswered; why did any group of people have a right to occupy Palestine in 1947 and 1948 and drive five million people out? It is a question that should make people uncomfortable, for no equity was shown to the Palestinians.

Instead, the United States and other western powers have almost exclusively supported Israel since the beginning, militarily, politically and economically. Over the years, the country expanded and claimed more territory for their own, all a loss to the Palestinians who lived there first.

The country expanded significantly during the Six Day War with Egypt in 1967, and that is when Israeli jets and patrol boats made numerous attacks on the American Navy ship, the U.S.S. Liberty. (see story: The Day Israel Attacked the United States) Israel later apologized and said they misidentified the ship, but American sailors claim the American flag was flying high. It is a story that left 34 men dead and 171 injured.

I mention this because even our military has had to endure an Israeli attack, and they have highly sophisticated weaponry at their disposal, unlike the Palestinian youths who lob stones at Israeli police.

Ahmadinejad states in this video that Jewish people have a right to a government, and he does not make statements about "Wiping Israel off the map" though Brian Williams questions him directly about it, and he fails to respond. Instead this contested world leader's inquiries center around the Jewish occupation that followed World War Two, the forming of the nation of Israel.

Another point Ahmadinejad makes is that tens of thousands of civilians died in WWII who were not Jewish. He questions why they are not equally regarded in history. Of course that question falls short when you take the Holocaust into account, as most of the other civilian deaths did not involve death camps or racial genocide.

To suggest that the Holocaust is anything but hard, documented fact is more than a ridiculous assertion, and it seems Ahmadinejad uses it as more of a tactic than anything else, and American media outlets were quick to label him as a Holocaust denier, which he brought upon himself through his statements.

Either way, you have to question who is playing who, and wonder if this man is just a nationalist who cares greatly about the Arab people, or a monster waiting to strike. He tries to make clear that his biggest motivation is fairness and equity for the Arab people.

Another Salem-News.com article on Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's visit to Columbia University can be viewed here: Iranian President’s Columbia University Visit Stirs Debate

Here is the video interview with NBC's Brian Williams and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Video

This is a video called Palestine-Israel 101, an informative documentary sponsored by the American Task Force on Palestine on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Videos courtesy of NBC News and YouTube.

------------------------------------------------------------

Tim King is a former U.S. Marine with almost twenty years of experience on the west coast as a television news producer, photojournalist and reporter. Today, in addition to his role as a war correspondent in Afghanistan where he spent the winter of 2006/07, this Los Angeles native serves as Salem-News.com's Executive News Editor. Salem-News.com is the nation's only truly independent high traffic news Website, affiliated only with Google News. You can send Tim an email at this address: newsroom@salem-news.com




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GeoF October 16, 2007 7:18 pm (Pacific time)

The sophistry of comments in this column is astounding. The history of Jews in Palestine goes back millenia. For the past century, Jews began arriving in the area from various pogroms against them in various countries. Known as the Zionist Movement, they joined Jews who had been living there for centuries. The new arrivals came from families who had prayed for nearly 1900 years, "next year in Jerusalem." At last, their dream was becoming a reality, but they would be separated from any real prayer in Jerusalem until 1968. The new arrivals transformed the land which Mark Twain described as a wasteland, into a productive farm region. Initially, the locals, now termed 'Palestinians' [simply because they lived in the area then known as Palestine, a derivative of the ancient name 'Philistine', because they lived there, not because the name existed before], applauded the arrivals and profited from the increased economic activity. Until the Palestinians were so prompted by neighboring muftis, the violence in the region was against the British. And until 'partition' was allowed, there was no Israel. The present state of Israel was born in 1948 with the UN vote, which contained some unusually surprising alliances! The 'state' of Israel was at that time an almost untenable wasp-shape that did not include important parts of Jerusalem! For the next 16 years Israel's neighbors worked to assure it's destruction, after which the famous Six Day War resulted in Israel incorporating large pieces of real estate that they have since given back in a vain attempt at achieving peace. Arab claim to the area may be tied to Ishmael, son of Abraham, but that claim reaches back some 5 thousand years and Ishmael was NOT a Palestinian! The non-Arab Ahmedinejad's claim that Israel should not exist is surely fraudulent, and the only 'peace' that would be achieved would be that which would allow extermination of more people!


APS October 4, 2007 10:02 am (Pacific time)

I watched the interview with Ahmadinejad hoping he'd prove more enlightening than he's portrayed. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Instead he presents the typical face of Israel's critics - ignorant, arrogant and totally out of touch with reality. I mean let's face it, the man is President and he doesn't know there are homosexuals in Iran? Clearly, he has no grasp on the reality in his own country, much less other states, like Israel. Sadly, in the end, Mr. Ahminejad proves that he's just one more convenient parrot for the Islamist propaganda the Middle Eastern dictators have been pumping out for decades. Or maybe there really are no gays in Iran..LOL :)


Jim McMullan September 26, 2007 9:29 pm (Pacific time)

Henry Your assurances of Checked links are a Joke when you LIE outright to the board --- as you've been caught Doing--- -- see my last-- -- Your attempt to regain credibility is just that-- an desperate attempt to paper over- with four posts- your Outing.


Henry Ruark September 26, 2007 7:00 pm (Pacific time)

To all: FYI, re any URL reference to source you find here, from me, you can be sure it has been professionally checked for reliability and broad acceptance in the profession. Example: Parry reports just shared during the day. His is highly regarded site. I know both his work, and had passing contact (via wire-work) with him in early years. We owe YOU that much. This is mine own personal word that when I use ANY reference I have either checked it in advance, as above, or am fortunate enough to have encountered one or more of the persons involved, via work professionally over the years, and KNOW they are A-No.1 and trustworthy. Old saw in media: SO if it is UN-true, just SUE !" -- always said tongue-in-cheek since to do so is nearly impossible for costs and clear-proof reasons. That is why credibility is so essential in any channel; and why we seek ID and record of experience or qualification from some when indicated. But first try 'em out, see their content, cogitate and check and either trust them and me, or prove up any precise points of real error.


Henry Ruark September 26, 2007 7:54 am (Pacific time)

To all: IS there real reason to be more threatened than ever before re a "coup" in this nation ? Here's surely-authoritative judgment on that from Ellsberg who brought us the Pentagon Papers, reported by Parry who broke many of those major stories some years ago: "In a remarkable speech, Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg warns that the United States will complete its slide into a "police state" if President Bush goes ahead with a war on Iran. "Referring to Bush's steady accumulation of power over the past six years, Ellsberg said, "a coup has occurred" and would be solidified by the crisis of an expanded war in the Middle East. "To stop this, he urges government officials to live up to their oath of office and defend the Constitution." For the full story, go to http://www.consortiumnews.com.


Henry Ruark September 26, 2007 7:09 am (Pacific time)

To all: Surely enjoyed morning chuckle when spotted JM re NON-use of Internet and NON-sharing of such links. We make point of "see with own eyes"-links here in hopes readers WILL use, thus check on authoritative statements we use, to make OWN EVALUATION. That's tested, proven offset for spin-virus, which is why we do it: YOU get to make up YOUR OWN mind, with same point of real contact we use - from us. !! What can be fairer than that approach ? Surely not "debate" designed to destroy other side, while suppressing any possible injurious points. That's also neocon working practice, as we know from Oregon Legislature failings and manipulations. Have offered direct contact three times --our usual rule here-- without ANY response; that should be final word. Goodby, JM: Appreciate your comments --in best sense of that over-used word.


Henry Ruark September 26, 2007 6:55 am (Pacific time)

J.M.: "Real identity" quoted, sir, to indicate to you reference was to social-amenity labels to which you referred, while here we seek what reality shows via other components cited. NOT surprisingly, you choose to spin, distort, "modify" my words --familiar technique, usual resort when they fit. Re aging, make no bones of 89, and lay out reality here rather often.(See STAFF) We still have no clue from you, "not surprisingly". Also note you still not able to share with us from whence you really cometh, thus surely sharing neocon pattern well demonstrated nationally. To all: Apologize for length of allathis, but it proveth up necessities we all face in this day of spin and deceit, emphasizing sense of knowing your opposite in conversation.


Janet September 25, 2007 9:42 pm (Pacific time)

I agree with you Al. Just like the media, you cannot believe any politicians. They say whatever they can to win the crowd. Luckily, this man showed his true colors. What is sad though, is that some of the things he said rang true in a bad way towards our current government.


Jim McMullan September 25, 2007 6:32 pm (Pacific time)

Henry,- You must have a problem with reality or be Aging quickly... ---
In this response you say---Henry: """Jim: Couldn't Care LESS about your "real identity" or your assumed name; simply seek your special experience training..."" ---- ------ ---- -- While in the Post Previous Henry Says:: """"Jim M. et al: Still no further response re Your REAL Identity, sir. Why NOT put It right out there for all to "see with own eyes" ? IF this were teatime conversation, that information would be instantly sought at First sentence of yours so far seen here. What's the problem ? Why the continued silence on this fair and Crucial point ? You maketh yrself seeming hypocritical by avoidance while attacking others well-known to readers here..""" --- - -- =- - - -- - ---
So Henry I don't know what else to call that but a Whopping Lie- and one sad for your sake- that's made so by your own post just underneath the last. - ----- ---- ----
That's why I do like Internet Discussions, especially with No edit function or limited Edit function. - Your held to your own words -which in this case are 100% Contradictory/Lying.--- ---- --- - -- - -
and BTW Henry, in this discussion of Wall Street practices right here http://www.salem-news.com/articles/august172007/schwab_falls_8807.php --- - - You are discussing with BOTH anonymous (every one) and uncredentialed characters Matters of Wall Steet--- and yet you ask NOT one for "Real Identity" nor Credentials. --- - - - - -
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm


Al September 25, 2007 5:45 pm (Pacific time)

Poor Brian Williams! He had to sit there and listen to a man spin the interview. Ahmadinejad took control of the interview, refusing to give a strait answer. His rhetoric is beyond belief. Same as his speech today at United Nations. Claiming to want peace. Ask him what it would take to have this "peace"? Without a doubt his view is that this peace is only attainable through Islam; something he'd like to have all "true believers" realize. It bothers me that so many people even give him the time of day. Yes we're a democracy, but don't lose your discernment, to read between the lines, when listening to what he has to say. Just because a man says "peace, peace" it doesn't mean that's his/her true intent. Maybe I'm stating the obvious?? I hope so.


Anonymous September 25, 2007 5:44 pm (Pacific time)

Jim: Couldn't care less about your "real identity" or your assumed name;simply seek your special experience, training, or other qualifications for what seems woolly statement and somewhat wild demand for debate. Long ago learned only to trust sources for such when they were both specialized and responsive when queried. That's demanded for anyone's credibilities here, and we seek it whenever anyone poses special problem via statement or lack of response, simply as further safeguard for our readers...responsibility not now found everywhere. We also offer full access to "more" via ID to Editor, thus saving time, frustration, space and effort for readers not necessarily dying for more of same from any of us. Surely seems fair enough to me, and most other channels do NOT offer nearly as much...try any daily for Letters column, if you disbelieve. SO--last/time--if you wish either dialog or "debate" with me, fire away to editor or simply fade into upholstery. Best to you either way, friend Jim...


Jim McMullan September 25, 2007 5:25 pm (Pacific time)

Henry.- Why do you assume my Real Identity is other than Posted? - - - - Do you want my address, occupation and Spouse name too? -- Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the internet as evidenced from your inability/unwillingness to use a search engine -BUT, and FYI --- Debate And/Or Dialogue, Constructive or just Critical, happen Daily on mesasage boards from here to Tehran Between for the Most/Great Majority People using 'Handles' other than their real Identity; this is the RULE rather than exception. - - Have you asked 'Vic' or 'Janet' for their full names? - -


Henry Ruark September 25, 2007 4:26 pm (Pacific time)

Jim: This is dialog, not debate; we not competing here for points, but for mutual growth via cooperative conversation, otherwise called dialog. IF you really wish "debate" you were given an invitation some time ago, with no response yet. "See with own eyes" is NOT mine own concept, but short form of honest journalistic principle, used here to provide for all same sources from which I sometimes offer analysis. All we get from you is more demand for "debate", unuseful for most readers who prefer simple conversation with friends they KNOW and thus can trust. IF you wish further from me, ID self to Editor and "let's get it on !" 'Nuff said, friend Jim ??


Henry Ruark September 25, 2007 4:18 pm (Pacific time)

Jim M. et al: Still no further response re your real identity, sir. Why NOT put it right out there for all to "see with own eyes" ? IF this were teatime conversation, that information would be instantly sought at first sentence of yours so far seen here. What's the problem ? Why the continued silence on this fair and crucial point ? You maketh yrself seeming hypocritical by avoidance while attacking others well-known to readers here.


Jim McMullan September 25, 2007 3:30 pm (Pacific time)

I agree Janet. I'm Glad they let/Invited him to Speak.. -- Everyone is entitled to that unfiltered chance no matter how abhorent his views.-- Of course, aside from his well known politically incorrect position on the Holocaust, Tim's article above agrees with Mr ahmadinJihad and his Ridiculous premises in several respects.--- --- I think he lost what was a fair and even patrtially sympathetic audience when he Denied the existence oh Homosexuals in Iran. (kinda like his Israel disconnect) -- He probably just meant "less" Homosexuals rather than "none" though, since Iran has excecuted thousands of them.


Henry Ruark September 25, 2007 3:27 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Hidden under surface in all of this re Iran Prexy here is the total concern U.S> has demonstrated for oil, in both Iraq and Iran. That fact is demonstrated by Cheney refusal to relinquish essential information about his special meetings with many oil corporation people as part of his energy activities; and by foot-in-mouth mention by former FCC chairman Greenglass in his new book, shared with you-all in one of my recent Comments. So that concern is highly relevant to this story, and so is "see with own eyes" below, which will provide strong background for all needing it: "It's the oil, stupid !" www.tomdispatch.com/post/174841 /dilip_hiro_it_s_the_oil_stupid


Jim McMullan September 25, 2007 3:23 pm (Pacific time)

Henry has politics and vague positions, but NOT a single fact to post; NOT a single fact to rebut. -- He asks for links? IO give them.-- I ask him for Links or even a Coherent counternarrative? NOTHING. --- He Runs around this place quoting, Jerfferson, Hitler, Bush, etc, all Nonsensically to deflect from his LACK of reasoned, defendable, positions. -- How can one debate someone with nothing to defend his own positions nor rebut those he says are wrong?


Henry Ruark September 25, 2007 11:43 am (Pacific time)

Janet et al: Your insights show strong continuing learning via your own efforts. That's as it should be. But do not place all media in the same rotten basket, albeit that's great temptation now. Some few still work at doing it right; many more in the profession are now learning --or rather, RE-learning-- the truth in these two quotes: "Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise" : Adolf Hitler - German Chancellor, leader of the Nazi party ======== "See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." -" : George W. Bush - 43rd US President That experience, for all of us, including them, may well move us forward-again to a real "free press" working hard once again for its true responsibilities in any democracy we may preserve.


Janet September 25, 2007 10:39 am (Pacific time)

I am personally glad that this man had the opportunity to speak. It was refreshing to hear words from his own mouth and not from the slanted pens of the media. I do not agree with everything he said and know he is probably a dangerous individual on the world stage, however, it is time that we all be able to hear for ourselves and make our own judgement. The media today simply cannot be trusted to give an accurate account of anything.


Henry Ruark September 25, 2007 8:36 am (Pacific time)

Vic: You may be correct but this provides nothing here except charges on yr word; sure to be rebutted via same from other side. Re professor proving fake, I recall extremely violent scientist-gang similar opposition on Shroud of Turin evidence from world authority on microscopy, my friend Walter McCrone, when I "saw with my own eyes"through his $100,000 electron microscope. SO can only conclude we in U.S. better off to stay as uninvolved as possible on all Far East imbroglios, and to keep both dollars and soldiers working on our own problems, right here at home. For those international and unavoidable situations sure to occur, we should use the U.N., fully liberated as originally intended, to carry out the mission for which it was first created.


Vic September 25, 2007 7:27 am (Pacific time)

Neal Feldman , who I used to respect, is a rabid Zionist ??? Ah well.... Perhaps he doesnt realize that the so called "celebrating Palestinian" video was found to be a five year old fake. A professor in Brazil found that it was old footage of a religious celebration that was spoon fed the US media by our good friends the Israelis. Kind of like how they framed Libya for the Lockerbie crash. Kind of like how they attacked the USS Liberty and tried to sink it so we would think the Egyptians did it and attack them on behalf of Israel. Kind of like the Lavon affair, where the Israelis were going to bomb the US embassy and blame Egypt....some friends. Now they are the new Nazis with the largest open air prison in the world. Neal , why dont you move to Israel..maybe they will let you shoot some of those whiney Palestinian kids on their way to school. You Israel firsters make me sick! Get out of our country !!


Henry Ruark September 25, 2007 6:49 am (Pacific time)

To all: Funny thing...I don't FEEL "humiliated" --nor do I see any reason for anyone else to feel-so when asked to qualify for apparently-authoritative statement. Resume facts is all that's needed, never hidden without reason. Solid sequence for ANY communication is: "WHO says WHAT to WHOM for WHAT Reasons" which starts with knowing the other end of any message. That merely mirrors any-all similar "conversations" - you don't speak freely then unless you know your friend. THAT'S ALL asked-here...and why my own "sorry story" is posted in STAFF,on the record. "Anon" and "Believe Me !" just cannot cut it, these days, as D.C. double-speak has taught us all in blood, billions of dollars and many tears. "Spin" is now a profession, very well-paid, too, different from my own miniscule start 50 years ago in non-profit national association in D.C.


Henry Ruark September 25, 2007 6:36 am (Pacific time)

J.M.: Mentor at UPI taught me: "ALWAYS confirm WHO source is and WHY he sourcing, before you begin to believe him." We still await your simple answer to: "WHO He ?" -asked here to help establish your credibility for wooly talk. IF you wish to continue dialog (for fact-exchange in full) ID self to Editor -and "Let's GO !"


Jim McMullan September 24, 2007 9:21 pm (Pacific time)

Henry, do you have ANYTHING [left] to say on Topic?" -- anything at all? -- You have NO Facts to post? -- NO Facts to rebut? --- You Have been humiliated by me pointing out that you noy only know Nothing, and aren't even willing to take the time to look into the subject at hand! -- just Carp at things you don't like. - You are a complete empty Keyboard who has now gotten what he asked for/a Link and Cannot answer. - Do come back when/IF you have something relevant to say. -- Until then you just waste Tims Bandwidth, the Same Tim who Parrots AhmadinJihad and was also utterly rebutted. -- Sincerely, JM


Henry Ruark September 24, 2007 7:05 pm (Pacific time)

J.M.: No question full information available if one digs hard enough in right places. BUT miss any information at all from you, qualifying self as great resource. IF you such strong debater, surely you have ready resume from which to cite yr solid qualifications, training, work experience, past adventures, whatever sets you up for this analysis. (Mine posted here, such as they are.) Last thing I question is full facts beyond what I know now...but first question here still remains: "WHO He ?" Yr credibility hangs on answer; we agree facts fully available, but at issue here is your "analysis", stated so emotionally as to call into question basic question, which I repeat: "WHO He ?"


Neal Feldman September 24, 2007 6:42 pm (Pacific time)

In point of fact it was the british and the UN who partitioned the middle east after WWII. There was created Israel and Palestine with the agreement required for acceptance that by accepting one you accepted the right of the other to exist. The jews took Israel and said OK we accept the Palestine state has a right to exist. The Arabs said Hell No we will never accept the right of Israel to exist and so they did not get their state (it was largely absorbed by Jordan). After decades of whining and bitching and getting their butts handed to them every time that they attacked Israel they finally made themselves a big enough thorn that Israel finally said OK we will give back lands we legitimately won in war when YOU attacked US for peace, only to be slapped in the face when Hamas and Hezbollah factions won in elections and all but declared war on Israel again. The Palestinians are the most whining, demanding, ungrateful wretches on the planet. By all rights Israel should retake Gaza and all West Bank areas and tell the Palestinians they had their chance, they blew it, so STFU. IMHO at least. I will never forget after 9-11 the videos of Palestinians shooting rifles in the air and cheering on Al Qaeda. They picked their side. Woe unto them for it. Ah well...


Jim McMullan September 24, 2007 6:20 pm (Pacific time)

Dear Henry- - I would be glad to provide Links for any and all facts I Stated. -- I usually do, replete with maps, but this format is not conducive to that practise. --- -- However, if there Is/are there ANY facts in particular you want documented, please ask-- Because Unlike you I do post facts and a coherent response, not just EMPTY critique. -- --- --- It's really Disappointing to see politicos who just don't like what you say but can't even attempt a reply/rebuttal due to lack of knowledge. -- -- For instance; the amount of 1948 refugees it is common knowledge/UNDISPUTED is 500,000-800,000. -- Asking an experienced debater on this topic like me for a Link for this is like asking an Ameican History buff to provide a link for what year the American Civil War Started! and shows your lack of knowledge not my inability to provide it. -- So Do feel free to post rebuttal WITH LINKS of anything I said --Make my day. -- For openers though and as to my last Shredding of AhmadinJihad and king's Ridiculous ""5 Million"" ... Wikipedia:. """Estimates of the numbers who fled in 1948 range from 367,000 to over 950,000. - The final UN estimate was 711,000,[5] ..."' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee -- What did I say Henry? "700,000" right? -- can't you even run over to wiki for 30 secs before posting and look it up? -- great group we have here; all politics NO knowledge, nor even the ability to use the net's most basic function. - Your instructor, JM


Henry Ruark September 24, 2007 6:08 pm (Pacific time)

To all: When hard-pressed, sometimes one can find strong help in what the Founders stated long ago. Here's relevant statement from Madison, sure to bring charge from many as to how it fits situation herein...which simply proves point of what it states: "Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes. And armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. "In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended. Its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force of the people. "The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war... and in the degeneracy of manners and morals, engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." James Madison, April 20, 1795


Henry Ruark September 24, 2007 5:46 pm (Pacific time)

To all: J.M. may well have "a right to speak", but all I see is rant and rave, with no further information as to what, why, how and when he assembled all that he states, or who backed it with solid and trained historian or other similar expertise. "WHO HE ?" has gotta be the question. If he can provide something other than URL, let him put it up...surely that's reasonable and rational, and also quicker, cleaner than further "debate". As most know, that "debate" has been underway, sometimes violently, for many years.


Jim McMullan September 24, 2007 4:39 pm (Pacific time)

I also Challenge Tim King To Public debate right here as to his Slanderous assertion (or any of ths awful stuff in his previous articles) that: - """...But still, his underlying point goes on unanswered; why did any group of people have a right to occupy Palestine in 1947 and 1948 and drive five million people out? It is a question that should make people uncomfortable, for no equity was shown to the Palestinians...." -- -- A "when did you stop beating your wife question" whose Premise is an absolute Lie.-- complete Nonsense.--- Even in the most Eggregious, but 'ball-park-fair' estimate, there were only 700,000 Palestinian Refugees in 1948.-- Arguably most caused by Arab Armies telling them to get out of the way while they wiped out the Jews, to return and divide the Spoils. -- Now, because The surrounding Arab Countries who caused the Problem refused to absorb them (they are denied citizenship, land ownership, and Jobs, to be forever used as propaganda pawns against the Jews) there are 4 million 'Refugees' -- though virtually NO original ones! -- All the other similar and much worse Post WWII Refugeee problems have been settled- 2 million Sudeten Germans, Karelian Finns, The Millions from the 1947 Pak/India Partition, etc.-- and NONE with any 'Right of Return'. - Only the 'palestinians' remain as an intentional propaganda weapon for Isreal and Jew Haters everywhere to point to.- ty, JM


Jim McMullan September 24, 2007 3:40 pm (Pacific time)

Dear Miles, I'm not an Israeli, I'm an American.-- You are in desperate need of a History Lesson.-- I see no rebuttal to anything I said and challenge you to document that the 'Palestinians' (BTW, If you said 'palestinian' in 1900, 1920, 1940, or even 1960, you were talking about a JEW) were "Robbed" of anything. -- -- 77% of the British Mandate Palestine was made into 'Jordan' no Jews allowed. The balance split roughly 13-10 for the Jews. (ergo local arabs getting 87% of the original mandate). -- and Fully Half of Israel's 13% was the Negev Desert- State Land under the Ottomans, owned by NO Arab.. as was an addition 15-20% of Israel.-- please feel free to email me at abu_afak2@yahoo.com for more instruction and deprogramming. -- Thanks, JM PS Miles-- why was there NO 'Palestine' from 1948 to 1967 when Arabs controlled the WB and Gaza? (actually Jordan Annexed the WB, but you'll never see that in the Video)


Miles Silverman September 24, 2007 3:23 pm (Pacific time)

So a good plan to give the Palestinian people back something they had robbed from them equates to being racially biased? The only person here exhibiting racism is an Israeli named Jim Mcmullan. P.S. Salem-News.com, expect guys like this, they troll the Web looking for ways to call fair people racist if they even utter the word "Israel", don't be bothered by any of it, its not worth it.


Jim McMullan September 24, 2007 3:13 pm (Pacific time)

(Comment 2) The Bias of the ATFP is shocking- the background and then when they start the 'hard' history. It says the Jews "declared a State with No borders in 1948 and War Broke out." The Video NEVER Mentions it was the U.N. that declared the partition and Israel that accepted it! The Arabs immediately attacking. And so it continues throughout and with stupendous Bias. Realy, every sentence is deceptive. Thank you Jim McMullan


Pat September 24, 2007 3:11 pm (Pacific time)

(Sorry, I can't watch the video until I get home - the office server blocks it.) I confess I understand little about the politics that brought around the return of the state of Israel (although I believe the wheels started turning on this before WWII), however, it has always reminded me of the horrible marches and camps in which our Native Americans were forced (and died). I'm afraid that what is clear is that human beings are greedy, selfish and egotistical, and have too often fabricated or exaggerated the wrongs (although I do not believe that the Holocaust was exaggerated) upon which retaliation is based, and too often used a difference of religion for the same purpose. The death of any human for religious reasons, or to oppress or control any part of the populace should not be condoned. The human race is in a woeful state right now, and until we can rise above these differences and (oh dear, I’m about to refer to the players as childish again) juvenile posturings, and agree upon a common cause for the world, violence will beget violence, and our soldiers – and theirs – will continue to die.


Jim Mcmullan September 24, 2007 3:03 pm (Pacific time)

That Video was So Biased against Israel I had to go see who the 'American (LOL) Task Force for Palestine' was. Notice anything here: 'American task Force for palestine' Board of Directors Samir Abu-Ghazaleh, M.D. Reema Ali, Esq. Naila Asali Ziad J. Asali, M.D. Marwan Atalla Abed Awad, Esq. Jesse I. Aweida Peter Aweida Tawfiq Barqawi Nedal Deeb, Ph.D. Ameen Estaiteyeh George Hishmeh Bishr Husseini Maha Kaddoura Omar M. Kader, Ph.D. Bishop Samir Kafity Shadia Kanaan Imad Khalidi Rashid Khatib Hani Masri Farah Munayyer G.F. Joey (Ghaith) Musmar Fahim Qubain, Ph.D. Rateb Rabie Rana Sadik Tareq Salahi George Salem, Esq. Saliba Sarsar, Ph.D. Zuhair Suidan Cheryl Sukhtian Basel Yanes, M.D. Ali Zaghab, Ph. D. Gene Zaid Geno Zayid Staff Members Rafi Dajani Hussein Ibish


Henry Ruark September 24, 2007 12:49 pm (Pacific time)

Tim et al: Thank you for this "see with own eyes" further-experience. In other story, I referred to "mirror" re one Comment; here it is unavoidable to suggest we use one to look at our own long American history. It is full of disturbingly similar ethnic attack and controversy albeit not at so nearly a determined and much larger organized murder plan as imposed in the Holocaust. They begin with what we did to the original Indians here; then follows with slave situations; then with city and industrial area wipe-outs both of-and-by ethnic immigrants. There are of course some Semitic-connected ones, too, but point here is universal application of death-principle for which we all still bear some part of mutual guilt since these took place in OUR nation, and could happen again, as ongoing press reports surely make clear from time to time. With no mention of what we have long done while seeking to become "empire" --and still continue to do till this day.

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