Opinion: Evict Pacifica Forum from the U of O Campus

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Joe May 19, 2010 9:01 pm (Pacific time)

I've attended the Pacifica Forum numerous times and have experienced the virtual fire power when intolerant minds anoint themselves to think for me. Whether I agree or disagree with a speaker is not the point. The Forum format allows me to make my opinions known. Nor do I feel a need to "hide behind the First Amendment." I feel an obligation to stand in front of it.

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Pacifica Archivist May 18, 2010 7:43 am (Pacific time)

Response to Editor (Tim K.?)

Understood. Thank you. I will write about "the PF vs 'Anti'HateTaskForce saga" and submit it to you.

It will take some time, as my plate is veryfull and there is MUCH that should be said about Pacifica's interactions with local Israel-Firsters.

I'll respond to Ersun, point by point prior /though as time is again short this morning, my main intent is to let you know PF has not ever held a discussion on Hitler. (.."holds discussions with titles such as “Learning about Hitler through Mein Kampf.”)

 I have been attending PF since early 2005 and was (until Feb 2010) the UO contact, on Orval's behalf, for scheduling. I am also a wrh reader, since 2002.

Blessings on all of you here at Salem-News and DON'T CAVE to the z-pressure, however insidious!

Tim King: OK, I have the other information and it is in my possession, I look forward to what you write, thanks!

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Pacifica Archivist May 17, 2010 8:09 am (Pacific time)

Hunter S. Thompson is rolling over with disgust, and I dreamed that Sherman Skolnick suggested I request you REMOVE this opinion piece from your otherwise stellar e_publication. Next time you decide to slam a group of 'fellow' patriots, please do them the courtesy of (at least) attempting to contact them in order to corroborate/VERIFY your OPINION.  Since you are ACTIVELY and SELECTIVELY censoring posts, by folks who've taken the time to point out some of your specific ERRORS, I write now to suggest you take this drivel-filled disinfo piece OFF the internet!

Editor: We will take another look at this down the line, i did receive a retort the other day from a member of your group and I don't think we are going to run that, but if you can come up with one that leaves this article out, or references it without going too far, I will absolutely consider it.  If an article is a direct reply to one of our writer's articles, then it is the writer's call.  BTW, don't let the comment approval/disapproval mean too much; if you could see what flows through here all day you would understand.  This is not a freedom of speech issue, this is a media group level issue.  At any rate, you have our attention.  You tell me that this is off track, maybe somebody can state the overall point of the Pacifica Forums.  Finally, I wasn't there so I don't know very much personally, but I have a Hell of a lot of faith in Ersun; the guy is incredibly smart.  So, let's try to find a way to move this into the light and if the Nazi part is misunderstood or out of context, then it will come into the light also, thanks.   

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Raul Reeve May 15, 2010 10:26 am (Pacific time)

Ersun: in the first place, why do you trust the NSM as a reliable source? I suspect this group is a front, whose purpose is to discredit campaigns to restrict immigration. I mean, marching around with swastikas is hardly a brilliant tactic for winning support, is it? "Why don't the leaders of Pacifica put this issue to rest"? Because it doesn't have any leaders. It doesn't even have any opinions, other than freedom of speech. One could ask each of the regular attendees (not 'members') what they think about Adolf Hitler, but they are not obliged to answer. The apparent far right leaning of the Forum in recent years was caused by the desertion of the liberals under Zionist pressure. I for one hope they come back. The Forum has ALWAYS invited its critics, even Zionists, to explain their views from the platform. They prefer to spread disinformation and incite violence. Why don't you give a talk at the Forum about how Hitler destroyed your country?

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Ersun Warncke May 14, 2010 5:47 pm (Pacific time)

Raul Reeve, my facts are not wrong. In a NSM press release for an event where Jimmy Marr was speaking, he is listed as "Jimmy Marr of Pacifica Forum," thus clearly affiliating Pacifica Forum with Jimmy Marr and NSM. You say that there were no chants of seig heil at events you attended, which may be true, but that does not answer the question of whether or not this incident actually took place. I describe Pacifica Forum as "hiding behind free speech" because its members claim that it is viewpoint neutral, which is in fact false. Using a blurred image of a parody of Hitler with a prominent swastika is just another example of the "two-faced" nature of the people involved, and their tendency to treat these serious subjects as a joke and a game. You can claim that the image is just a joke, while at the same time using it to make a political statement. Of course, you don't have to go far to find images on the NSM website of American flags with swastikas imposed over them. Since NSM is linked to Pacifica by the wording of its own published materials, and by the prominence of Marr in both groups, the appearance is that these two groups are advancing a common agenda, despite the public declarations of Pacifica members. Be that as it may, why don't the leaders of Pacifica put this issue to rest by publishing prominently on their website their full and complete opinions on Adolf Hitler, German Nazism, and the so called American neo-Nazi movement?

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jimmy Marr May 14, 2010 9:33 am (Pacific time)

"We can never be sure that the opinion we are endeavoring to stifle is a false opinion; and if we were sure, stifling it would be an evil still." ...John Stuart Mill

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Raul Reeve May 14, 2010 8:48 am (Pacific time)

Cims Gillespie is a liar. He has made it his personal mission to attack Pacifica Forum at every opportunity. He wrote that a Forum speaker said "you're cute enough for it" to a woman, referring to rape, where in fact he just said "you're not ugly". It does have at least one full-time U of O student as a regular. Mr. Marr is not a member of the NSM, though he defends far-right views - whatever anyone says about 'so-called free speech' or claims 'freedom to spit verbally on others' is not freedom, THAT IS HIS RIGHT. Young Cims is so sure of his leftist viewpoint he criticises Forum speakers for saying 'race is biological and there are different races', as if the idea is so preposterous it doesn't need a reply. If the Forum is closed down or evicted thanks to the honest misunderstandings of people like Ersun Warnke and the dishonest maneuvers of Cims Gillespie and his Zionist friends, it will mean we are not allowed to discuss the idea that 'there are races'. Gillespie's intervention proves more than ever that the Forum is for freedom of speech, and that we need to defend it.

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Natalie May 14, 2010 12:32 am (Pacific time)

Sometimes, people somehow confuse freedom of speech with freedom to spit verbally on others without feeling bad, which makes them tyrants, which in its turn promotes slavery and by no means any "freedom".

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Cims Gillespie May 13, 2010 6:54 pm (Pacific time)

Facts about Pacifica: 1) They have no student membership (although one member does attend LCC Lane Community College and the daughter of one of the pacifica attenders, does go to the University) 2) They meet because of an emeritus faculty Orval Etter, who is ~94 years old and can barely speak for himself, let alone run a group. 3) The forum 'officially' has no opinions, but having attended nearly every forum this year in protest- they only host presentations that are Bigoted or idiotic (sometimes both). Regularly showing videos saying race is biological and there are different races. They talk about a 'Jewish race' controlling the economy and ruining their lives. Also they have given speeches advocating the use of the swastika and most of their recent meetings are by Mr.Marr- a member of the NSM (National Socialist Movement- formerly American Nazi Party). I disagree with violence, but certainly Pacifica forum is WAY out of touch and out of line.

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Raul Reeve May 13, 2010 9:34 am (Pacific time)

I KNEW that picture of John Cleese as Hitler in Monty Python would get Pacifica Forum into trouble! 'Their website displays a swastika and some individuals in German military garb'. Apart from that, all your facts are wrong. The Forum is not 'affiliated' to anything. It's not a 'private enterprise' group, it's a campus group with students and an ex-prof among its regulars. You haven't been to a Forum meeting to find out what is said, as you admitted in your article. Genuine journalism involves trying as hard as possible to check one's facts. You can't 'hide behind free speech' - you either support it or you don't. What is 'hiding behind it'? You mean exercising it! When I went to a few Forum meetings, there were no seig heils, no advocacy of 'white rights' and so on. However, you COULD do these things at a Forum meeting - that's freedom of speech! You should try it some time. 'If you are displaying swastikas and giving Nazi salutes, I take you as a dumb fake Nazi'. Thanks. If you explore the Pacifica site pacificaforum.org a little more, you will find another John Cleese picture, from the Fawlty Towers 'Germans' sketch. You probably won't laugh at that either.

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Ersun Warncke May 12, 2010 6:01 pm (Pacific time)

Raul: my point about being German is that Nazis and Hitler are despised by Germans because they destroyed Germany.  I don't really care whether you are "impressed" or not.  You can say that Germany was no worse than any other country, which is partially true, but two wrongs don't make a right.  If you look at my own article "Holocaust Myths" (http://www.salem-news.com/articles/february122010/holocaust_ew.php) I go into the history of vicious war crimes committed by all sides in some depth.  I don't try to justify war crimes committed by the U.S. or Russia by saying that they were no worse than the Nazis.  It is foolish to claim the opposite.  Everyone has a right to free speech, but no one has a constitutional right to use any particular government building for their own private enterprise.  The Pacifica Forum hides behind free speech, but their website displays a swastika and some individuals in German military garb in the header for their forum; Jimmy Marr is affiliated, along with the Pacifica Forum, with the so called National Socialist Movement; Jimmy Marr is reported to have given Nazi salutes and chanted "seig heil" at a Pacifica Forum meeting.  I don't buy this two-faced "free speech" b.s.  I don't buy these idiots trying to masquerade as "white civil rights" advocates, or whatever other stupid crap they are saying.  If you are displaying swastikas and giving Nazi salutes, I take you as a dumb fake Nazi.  Pure and simple.  Getting banned from the University is a pretty minor punishment for that kind of stupidity.

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David Bedworth May 11, 2010 7:06 pm (Pacific time)

Raul - why was Dresden bombed? Because the bombing of civilian areas had become the norm at that stage of the war. As the son of two parents who were raised in Air Raid shelters in Birmingham, England I can say that bombing of civilian targets was rampant by the time of Dresden. Ask the folks from the East End of London and Coventry. Both of these area were wastelands into the early 1950's. Go and walk the ground, as I have done, then you will see it was a World at War - civilians were legitimate targets by both sides.

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Josh Akers May 11, 2010 1:47 pm (Pacific time)

I do believe misguided fools deserve their rights. This is not an intelligent college level dialogue, though, or it doesn't sound like one. I do wish someone would crash their meeting with a historical fact sheet and a big mouth.

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Raul Reeve May 11, 2010 1:01 pm (Pacific time)

It's not up to the taxpayer to determine the politics of what goes on inside the university. It is the duty of the university to protect freedom of speech. BTW, Pacifica hasn't had a meeting on Hitler. You should check out its website rather than getting your information from Zionists. Thanks, Raul

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Raul Reeve May 11, 2010 12:59 pm (Pacific time)

It is true that the Nazis killed millions of people 'under horrible conditions'. But what did the Allies do, put them to sleep with lethal injections? No - they bombed, nuked and raped their way from Hamburg to Hiroshima. Furthermore, the hypocritical, racist, Allied version of World War II which we have all been taught - that killing Jews is worse than killing Germans and Japanese people - helps Zionism, which this site is very critical of. I am not impressed with the fact that the author is German - Germans suffer from even more guilt than Americans, some even protesting to commemorate the bombing of Dresden, and assuaging their guilt by sending missiles to Israel. Apart from that, great article.

Editor (Tim King) There were horrible horrible things on all sides during that war, thanks for pointing that out. 

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NoahideMad May 11, 2010 12:24 pm (Pacific time)

Glenn Beck's concession: you can say you're pro-patriot but you must say Islamic-terrorist once a week.
SALEM-NEWS concession: you can say IsraeHell and FreeGaza but you must punish a Holocaust Revisionist historian, even if it means taking down the whole free speech group.

Editor: If for no other reason than the fact that so many Americans died defeating those bastards, for the life of me, I can't imagine why you are surprised we give no quarter to the specific symbol of racism. 

Can't this group meet somewhere in the vast city of Eugene? 

Having free speech is one thing, but forcing taxpayers to pick up the tab for the venue, that is another.  I hate Nazi's, I hate all oppressors, and yes we are very critical of Israel's military and political treatment, abuse and death of Palestinians.  "Revisionist history" -  what the Hell is this about? 

Facts are facts and history is the way it is.  Maybe there are discrepancies in numbers, but the Holocaust roughly went down as described; millions of people who were Jewish, Gypsy, academics, scientists, poets, musicians, reporters, and all those who disagreed, faced death under horrible conditions.  We have a huge problem in that the millions and millions of other people; of other faiths and background, many Islamic people among them, are virtually not counted.  Worry about that, but screw anything to do with the Nazi party, it is an offensive joke and besides, like the Confederates, they lost....   

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