Veterans For Change Demands Accountability for Those Who Served

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Keith Clisby Jr. January 31, 2009 12:57 pm (Pacific time)

Editor: The below is the current Veterans Administrations demographic data, with link. As you may note, it provides a different demographic mixture than the current active duty demographics provided earlies via DOD sources that were available by earlier link, but not significant. This knowledge is used by different groups to see that funding is allocated appropriately. No specific group should receive special treatment: Veterans Demographics:

Projected U.S. Veterans Population: 23,442,000

{Female 1,802,000 8%}

Projected Number of Living WW II Veterans (as of 9/30/2008):

2,583,000

Number of WW II Veterans Pass Away Per Day:

900

Percentage of Veteran Population 65 or Older:

39.4%

Veteran Population by Race: White 79.7%

Black 11.1%

Asian/Pacific Islander 1.4%

Hispanic 5.7%

American Indian/Alaska Natives 0.8%

Other 1.3%

www1.va.gov/vetdata/docs/4X6_fall08_sharepoint.pdf

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Daniel January 28, 2009 3:25 pm (Pacific time)

sorry i meant stephen not steven

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Keith Clisby Jr. January 28, 2009 2:14 pm (Pacific time)

Editor: My below post was taken out of the February 2009 edition of the American Legion magazine. I contacted them by phone regarding a possible conflict of interest with the Heritage Foundation and was told their data had been verified and they were comfortable with its accuracy. I also checked out their sources (18 of them) and they appeared to be non-partisan which the American Legion is, and that is also required by their national charter. Possibly this link affords a better connection for the sited sources: (Please note that the so-called 25% higher-income background recruits and the 11% from the low-income backgrounds account for just 36% of all recruits. So 64% are somewhere in between)..http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda08-05.cfm

Editor: Keith, HF is an interest based group and that is my point. I dropped my long membership with the American Legion because they issed a magazine with the cover caption reading, "Why Not Torture?" That was the end of that for me, and I believe for a lot of other veterans also who have a conscience and half a clue as to what this life we are given is even about. Anyone who looks at the Heritage Foundation site will see "The Left is on the March: Heritage has answers" They're against the SCHIP which would give little kids healthcare. Facts and statistics are all interpreted to match the interests of the group publishing them anyway. At any rate, thanks for your comments

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Daniel January 28, 2009 12:06 pm (Pacific time)

Steven its true the US greatly assisted in bring Saddam to power and keeping him there . Whats not true is that Saddam turned against us , before we attacked . Saddam consulted with the US ambassador and his cia handlers before he moved into Kuwait . What other country would allow there neighbor to steal billions in resources via lateral pipelines and destabilize their currency for eight years . What Saddam did not take into account was the cold war was over . The US was dismantling the military industrial complex , Saddam became more valuable as a foe than friend . This is a guy we put into power, spent lots of money keeping him there , used him as a buffer to the Iranians , you think we took him out because of the Kuwaitis who we had no treaty with . Saddam had the most westernized arab country in the region , with 95% literacy ,solid economy and pro west . I remember Bob Dole giving a 30 minute discourse in the senate on the value of Saddam in the late 80s. It was all a set up to keep the military machine going . Now Bin laden did turn against us . His big rallying cry was US troops in Saudi Arabia the holiest place in the arab world , mecca , put there by Bush 1 . Having infidels in the holy land , as viewed by the conservative religious arab , was a fighting matter . If you read the 911 commission you will find this is a core reason the mostly Saudi religious fanatics flew into the twin towers . The 1st thing Bush 2 did in the beginning of Gulf 2 was pull all the troops from Saudi arabia . The royal family told him to get them out because the radicals would be going after the royal family next .

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Keith Clisby Jr. January 27, 2009 10:35 am (Pacific time)

There are many misconceptions about our military and one is it's demographic makeup. Members of this all-volunteer force are "significantly" more likely to come from high-income backgrounds, which is 25%. Only 11% came from the poorest quintile in 2007. Suffice high-income families are overrepresented. American soldiers are better educated than their 18-24 civilian peers. Less than 1% of soldiers do not have a high school diploma whereas their civilian counterpart is at 21%. Enlisted troops are disproportionately more white. In fact the below study finds 62 percent of the total U.S. male population aged 18 to 24 is white, 20 percent is Hispanic and 13 percent is black. Within the military, 65 percent of recruits are white, 12.9 percent are Hispanic and 12.8 percent are black. War casualties are even more separated.

http://www.heritage.org/research/nationalsecurity/upload/cda_08_05.pdf

Editor: The Heritage Foundation is a biased right wing propaganda machine and I don't know any real journalists who rely on them for information. I suppose Rush Limbaugh might use them, but not fact seekers. We suggest checking anything this comment suggests. So Keith, you think the Army is full of white kids from well-to-do families? I mean there are those, for sure, but that isn't the case very often. I could go on and on about it and trust me, I see the positive side of our people in uniform. Anyone who were to open the Heritage Website would see instant bias. Leave this place alone, don't touch it with a ten-foot pole unless you want to hear the voice of the big money Republican war machine.

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stephen January 26, 2009 9:16 pm (Pacific time)

actually, I was interested in OB;s comments. Until he/she said: we succeeded in Iraq. Succeeded? million dead iraqi's? Dislocation of millions more? killing them until they obey? The U.S. did this before. They had the wars to set up Saddam. Saddam you say? Yes, Saddam. The U.S set him up in power. But, he felt the power, and turned on the U.S. Osama bin laden did the same. He was also paid and given weapons by the israel/zionist u.s/western world to fight the russians. But, as usual, the zionist/israel/u.s. just go bomb people into submission, then set up a puppet government, which is somewhat working with Germany, UK, and India. But, most every puppet government they set up in the middle east fails. The military industrial complex is making tons of money tho, so guess that is the way it goes. All the killing for the military industrial complex and the zionist (khazar), ambitions to dominate the world, no matter what it takes. free on google video: alex jones: endgame alex jones: loose change free on youtube: Lindsey williams Peter Schiff Ron Paul Do your homework, I am not going to do it for you. :-) I do not believe that ohboy deserved henrys comments on this thread. Most important. the left/right paradyme, (sp?), is only to confuse. The perfect antidote for the new world order. left and right are too busy fighting each other to see the truth.

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Henry Ruark January 25, 2009 12:10 pm (Pacific time)

OhBoy: You wrote:"...why would that guy's letter interest me?" Clear English statement with mine points to letter helping you see nuances in language. Yours shows no sensitivity whatsoever, as already demonstrated, via both your Comments and your thus-invalid criticisms of others. Thank you for inadvertent demonstration, once again, of precisely the great failures which provide so much fuel for your own frustrations, as rant after rant also clearly does demonstrate here. I suggest you allow possible satifaction with your own controllable blog to salve and succor such wounds as you continue to flourish, and thus save us all both embarrassment for you and time, attention, space here. Meant for your own protection, truly...

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stephen January 24, 2009 7:33 pm (Pacific time)

ending my evening but had one last thought. Why not get away from blame for just a minute, and focus on the travesty at hand. Our veterans are NOT being taken care of, and I am mad as heck. Quit blaming, and support the veterans. Thanks for letting me get that out. Daniel 9:41pm post. I agree with you. K9: thank you for your service, and I liked your post.

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stephen January 24, 2009 7:00 pm (Pacific time)

hmmm... quite a day huh? Tims comment 9:20 pm jan 23. excellent. Saved me typing. :-) I have to go read comments from another article I posted on, but I do still believe, that there are people more powerful than our president, and their agenda is not really nice. Thanks Tim for your comment on my post. I do believe you have thick skin, and I know its hard. No personal attacks..agreed. Also going to agree with Henry that this forum is to grow and learn, and will do my best. I do get a bit frustrated time to time, but will keep trying to do better.

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OhBoy! January 24, 2009 5:10 pm (Pacific time)

Henry, what are you talking about? I have no "home-town paper". I live 6 hour's drive from Salem. And why would that guy's letter interest me? Keith Clisby: A second to the notion that it gets prefunctory attention around election time, but rarely otherwise. The reason is simple: Money. Democrats desperately want money to buy votes with more welfare and the GOP has rarely wanted to be seen as big spenders (though one could hardly recognize that considering the last 2 years). Still, there's no "vote return" from consistently meeting the promised benefits to veterans. Thus, the lack of attention. Why would politicians campaign on "fixing" the VA Medical System when they can run on promising to pay YOUR doctor bills by stealing money from some anonymous "rich guy"?

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Henry Ruark January 24, 2009 1:03 pm (Pacific time)

Oh-Boy: You looking for solid target vs misinformation ? Might read yr hometown daily. Here's sample to whet your blog appetite re writing: statesmanjournal.com Letter to Editor January 24, 2009 Editorial's wording provides lessons to writing students My Advanced Placement English Language and Composition students will benefit greatly from your Jan. 17 editorial, "History might offer a kinder view of Bush." I offer them bonus points for any mistakes in grammar, usage and logic they find in the Statesman Journal, and "Our Viewpoint" provides them with two egregious errors worth a total of 20 points to those who come up with the following: 1. "We cannot help but respect that fortitude ..." contains a double negative, which is a positive, therefore the sentence means, "We respect that fortitude." While your original construction may be true, it is also wordy and hence should be eschewed. 2. You say "He (Bush) awoke each day to the duty of keeping the U.S. safe from further attack. So far, he has done that." That is a logical fallacy, specifically a post hoc, ergo propter hoc argument, which assumes a false cause-effect relationship: Because Bush awoke each day to his duty, the U.S. has not been attacked. Thank you, President Bush, for keeping us safe by awakening every morning to your duty. And thank you, Statesman Journal, for providing my students with an easy 20 points two weeks before their report cards come out. — William Brooks, Salem ------------------ Lettrwriter ID'd since letter already published. When can get up courage, will submit Op Ed or two for similar professional evaluation, but probably on confidential basis with no report here !!

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Henry Ruark January 24, 2009 11:50 am (Pacific time)

To all: Nothing much more needs to appear here re Oh Boy, but this doth seem particularly pertinent given the dialog ongoing above: "What kills a skunk is the publicity it gives itself" ---Abraham Lincoln ------------------- And that ain't any stylistic flourish but plain oldfashoned simple-English truth --and from a solid source, too. You can easily check via your own life experiences ever since the Reagan beginnings.

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Keith Clisby Jr. January 24, 2009 11:19 am (Pacific time)

I have been active with many different veterans organizations for decades now. They include the American Legion, VFW, DAV, Vietnam Veterans of America and Oregon Vietnam Veterans. All of these above organizations have been lobbying congress for years to improve conditions for veterans. The problems always get addressed (briefly) around election time, then foot dragging happens after the elections. We have had many successes and are always actively involved in promoting improvements for our veterans. You may not hear about are actions, but they are always going on. To blame a particular political party or president is not the corect thing to do for the problems with VA policies and funding have happened under all. As far as John Kerry claiming what he did about Vietnam veterans was nothing more than a smear job. He spent less than 4 months in Vietnam, never got into the interior, but he spoke like he knew about everything going on. 99.9% of those who served in Vietnam did so honorably. The media has promulgated many myths and augmented certain infamous events as though they were common. As have the book publishers and the school system, Hollywood and on and on. They have been misleading at best and willful liars at worst. All wars historically have had their negative happenings, war is insanity, but the American combat soldier is far and above the most honorable as compared to the rest of the world. Those of you who have these negative views about our veterans are in my opinion misplaced.

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Daniel January 23, 2009 9:41 pm (Pacific time)

A number of people who work at the VA hospitals are excellent professionals . They are doing their job . The lack of proper funding and denial of illness has been the fault of politicians on both sides of the political spectrum . From Viet Nam to the gulf vets who had to fight to prove their illness , this is a national disgrace . The Bush administration was one of the worst offenders , please check the record . Billions went into the pockets of war contractors , who short changed the american taxpayer . This money would have been far better spent on those who served , not those who lined there already full pockets . As one who served during the Viet Nam era along with my brother ,cousins and close friends , i know the vets EARNED every benefit the government gave , and much they didnt . Let us pray this new administration has a better ear hearing the many problems those who served now face . lets also pray they know what the mission is and hows its going end before they commit troops .

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K9USAFRet January 23, 2009 9:28 pm (Pacific time)

As Tim said above, noone has done real justice for Veterans, for many years. As a disabled Vietnam Vet, and the father of an IAVA Vet, it is past time to seriously consider getting the word out to the American public that their sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, and yes mothers and fathers are being denied what they earned. It isn't about whether anyone thinks the war is justified, it is about the realities of the horror and damage done to everyone, but particularly those serving their country. It is time to let this be known and to raise our voices in every town, community, everywhere and let our new leadership know this must stop. If you would like to know the real truth, ask a veteran.

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OhBOY! January 23, 2009 9:20 pm (Pacific time)

Tim... Murtha, Kerry... were liars. Deliberately lied to further DEMOCRAT politics. So, you blame Bush for the fact that humvees needed to be armored? And that we had no domestic industry, save a small company that could actually produce the armor for them? Maybe we should look at the budget cuts of the administration that Bush inherited before you get all up in arms. My point still remains, I find no leading GOP personalities who accuse the military of being all these horrible things. ONLY Democrats, and the leaders of the party at that. You're asking the party that endorses those lies and the hatred of the military to care for Veterans. Ain't gonna happen. You, of all people, ought to know. Blaming the GOP is utterly pointless and entirely without merit. Your arguments fall flat. BTW, forces were reduced in Afghanistan because the UN was brought on board. And, as usual, it entirely botched the whole thing. We succeeded in Iraq. Afghanistan continues a downward slide and will continue to do so until the UN is expelled and we just do the job that needs to be done.

Tim King: I am not going to go on and on about this. Bush's administration has squandered so much of our money on Haliburton; by the tens of billions, and several of their employees in Iraq last summer told me they were not being paid well and many were tiring of the BS. I have by the way criticized Murtha and Clinton and all of them at different points, but there is fault on all sides and it gives me the feeling when people say the things you say, that we aren't all still on the same team. Aren't we supposed to be at the end of the day? If you can get past the point of having to label everything; everything "Conservative" or "Liberal" then it is easier to see how common our goals are, at least sometimes. I have covered our troops at war in a positive light and there aren't a heck of a lot of us who have done that. But at the same time I want peace and for everyone to live the best life possible. We may be primarily concerned with veterans at Salem-News.com, but we care about all people equally - of all political parties.

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OhBOY! January 23, 2009 8:32 pm (Pacific time)

So, I need to cite for you with actual quotes, like Clinton (Former Democrat President), "..loath the military.." And Murtha, current Democrat Senator, falsely accused, without evidence, marines of a wide array of criminal behavior, including murdering children. John Kerry, (former Democrat candidate for President) accused the US military of everything I said in the previous post. Murdering children, rape, and so on.



And you wonder why a Democrat controlled Congress would never get around to helping the veterans? You know, like my brother and father? They've endorsed those very things I stated. I dunno why you'd find it offensive, you endorse them, obviously, you endorse their views of the military.

Tim King: Well thank God life doesn't work the way you describe it man. So Bush sends our troops off to a war in Iraq in unarmored HUMVEE's with no plan to win while reducing the forces in Afghanistan to way below an acceptable level, and then treats our veterans like crap and that is OK, but when Kerry talked about the horrible stuff our forces were doing to the civilian populace of Vietnam all Democrats are bad? I have news for you; no political party is doing a good job by our veterans and our current military. Kerry's biggest fault was, along with McCain, not supporting the families of the POW/MIA's of Vietnam. His testimony to Congress probably helped end the war, I presume it is OK with you that we pulled out of Vietnam? Your slamming "Democrats" is counter-productive, and it sounds like you are mixed up as to how things are anyway. Has the GOP really done our military a lot of favors? You think sticking up for things like torture benefits our own people?

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OhBOY! January 23, 2009 8:02 pm (Pacific time)

Editor: This comment was deleted and it is not the kind of thing we are looking for. If your intent is to divide and insult then it has nothing to do with intelligent dialog and it will be deleted.

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stephen January 23, 2009 6:47 pm (Pacific time)

I have done much research on this subject. And what the U.S. government is letting happen to veterans is shameful. It seems to me that the U.S/Israel agenda does not care about people, only to dominate the world.

Turn off your tv people. please :-)

p.s. I dont want to email the salem-news website at this time. If my posts are not appropriate to this website, let me know on this article. I will keep watch. I like salem-news, and do not want to be a hindrance to your objective. You guys/gals all work very hard. Just let me know. I can be a bit controversial I know. :-)

Tim King: Stephen, I have been approving everything from you lately I'm pretty sure, so all is well. The things I will not approve are personal attacks, especially toward the other writers. I try to have a thick skin personally; it isn't always easy but I try!

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