Salem-News.com Writers on Press TV: 'Gaddafi using mercs to attack people'

Press TV interview with Dr. William Cook of the University of La Verne in California and Tim King, a journalist from Salem-News in Salem, Oregon.

(TEHRAN / SALEM / LAVERNE PRESS TV) - Cook made the remarks in an interview with Press TV in which he discussed Gaddafi's weakening hold on power and his decision to massacre the citizens of his own country.

Tim King, a journalist with the media outlet Salem News, which is based in Salem Oregon, also participated in the interview, which touched on a number of issues, such as the prospects for a rough transition to democracy in Libya after years of despotic rule.

Press TV: Mr. Cook, we're seeing an increasing number of towns being captured by the protesters. Do you think that Muammar Gaddafi can hold on or is the regime collapsing?

Cook: I'd say it's collapsing. It is essentially the same experience we watched in Egypt once the people have gained as much control as they have at this point. The international community, the business community begin to back off of their support and Gaddafi is gradually isolated within his own palaces and can't govern anymore.

Press TV: We were hearing Gaddafi say in his latest comments on the phone that was broadcast on television there that these people are Al-Qaeda, or have been instigated by Al-Qaeda, that they've been given drugs to force them to come out in the streets. But the pictures we're seeing are of youth, men and women in the streets (reveal distressing facts). Why do you think he's made such a comment?

King: Well, it seems like an absurd comment and I think that the rhetoric, coming from the United States going back several years, has built a platform for that because when you look at Al-Qaeda you see a group that was created by the CIA back during the Afghan war to expel the Soviet Union and it just seems like a political word to use as far as the drugs (are concerned). It just seems, after 41 years, he's seeing the last of his days.

Press TV: Mr. Cook, till that end is reached, do you think it will be more bloody than it's already been?

Cook: Oh yes, it will be more bloody. He is not the kind of person that will back off without giving it a last effort. His problem is that he hasn't gotten control of either the tribes any more, nor does he have control over his own military. They have abandoned him and gone into the population. Some have left the country. This is not something that's supportive of the regime that's in there and a good measure for that is that Gaddafi represents everything against what they want.

These people need jobs, they need food, they need a measure of freedom which they have never seen, and this man, who has joined forces back in 2006 with George Bush in order to gain his support and pocketed much of what he's gained, is now open and obvious to the people and now they are out in mass in order to get him out of there.

Press TV: Mr. King, what can the international community do to stop this massacre, these carnages as it's called? Is it even doing enough?

King: A very difficult question. With the United States, Obama is talking to France and Italy and trying to make different plans that may range from actual interfering by imposing a no-fly zone to other embargos, blockades on their economy. And, of course, Russia is not backing that. So it seems to me that maybe it will be best handled from within. No conflicts ever seem to be allowed to take place without prolonged interference. Hopefully, everybody will refrain from doing these interferences. It's puzzling.

Press TV: The UN Security Council demanded on Tuesday that Libya's rulers stop using force and called for those responsible for these attacks to be held to account. It's to meet with Libya on Friday with no vote expected on sanctions before next week. But are sanctions even effective at this time?

Cook: I would say they aren't effective because the government itself is not coordinating and controlling activities. How are they going to impose these when in fact the people have taken over the ports and control the entrance, and they know nothing about the arrangements that have been made by the Gaddafi regime. Gaddafi is down to hiring mercenaries in order to do his work against his own people. He's threatened to blow up the oil pipelines in order to sink the country even further into economic chaos.

This is going to be a period of time not similar to Egypt where the country is going to lose hoards of money as the people begin to impose their will on the government and force it to leave and then go through a period where they have to reconstruct a government that puts into some phase a way in which the people can have a voice and accomplish more in the way of their own lives and freedoms.

Press TV: The consultations that are taking place between world leaders now, the United States, France, Britain...we know that Britain and the US have had ties with Libya, and Libya had tried to ally itself to the United States in recent times. But, what are the concerns now by these western countries in terms of what's happening in Libya?

King: Looking at all of the range of news media in the US, I'm seeing a lot of very similar information. The numbers, when we talk about these contributions from the UK, 55 million dollars in US money, back in 2007, as you referenced, and Bush contributed an increasing amount of money. All this going to Gaddafi's military to purchase, even then-questionable items, incendiary materials, and we hear so much about the use of these weapons in Gaza and it's just unconscionable.

So, for Americans it's a paralyzing event. Knowing that every single time the United States has backed these governments, later turns around and doesn't back, or launches an attack. I think the western governments don't have any say in this at all in a proper context. So it's going to be a very unfortunate thing if it happens because there's just no track record of that ever having a good or positive effect.

Press TV: People on the streets are arresting “African mercenaries” that have been hired by the Gaddafi's regime to attack the protesters. The pictures are coming in to the media showing people arresting some of those attacking them, saying that they're foreign. Libya's tribal leaders are also a key matter in this, and Gaddafi has said that the tribal leaders should take more responsibilities. But we are seeing tribal leaders are also taking stands in favor of the protesters. Mr. Cook, as we see the pictures of the foreign mercenaries to attack these protesters, do you think that this shows that Gaddafi is being isolated or will be, and he doesn't have enough support within his own administration to carry out this violent approach against these protesters?

Cook: Well, it certainly points that way because the largest tribe, the [Marfalla] in the eastern region, is rebelling against Gaddafi. That's one million of the 6.5 million population. And that adds to the southeast tribe, the [Wah Ya] tribe and the [Torek] tribe in the south; and he's in dangerous territory because the major support base is no longer there. And he relies on outsiders, so this is not something that's tribally acceptable (in Libya).

Press TV: Speaking of those mercenaries being used there, why do you think Muammar Gaddafi has resorted to using them? Do you think it shows that he lacks support?

King: I think it clearly shows that, and we know the members of his military joining the revolutionary protest site. I think that it's clear that it's just a matter of time. And it's going to wear him down. And if we look at what was happening in the other countries prior to this, it seems that the military is going to continue to abandon backing him. And it's interesting. These are some difficult pictures to watch but telling a real story. People are tired of violence, and Gaddafi had his reign in all of this.

Press TV: We know that the Libyan leader, Muammar Gaddafi is not very known in terms of human rights. He has been violating human rights for more than his 40 years rule, he has been involved in the Lockerbie case, the case of Imam Musa Sadr who went missing in Libya in 1978 and there's still no word on his fate, and a lot of other issues involving Libya. But we are seeing these issues have not been raised in the international community, not just about Libya but also about Bahrain, Egypt and Hosni Mubarak's regime, Yemen, Saudi Arabia...we're not seeing any international actions towards these violations of human rights and other crimes. Why is it that this is happening and now we are seeing these issues are only raised when these regimes are facing such a serious threat?

Cook: That's an excellent question and it has an obvious answer. The United States is embarrassed; more than embarrassed, ashamed that it supported these despots and it has, in the process, rejected its own basic principles that have to do with equality for all people, the bill of rights that guarantees rights to life and liberty, and to some kind of life that gives them happiness and care. All of that is abandoned because the ultimate end is to sell munitions.

America is the world's arms manufacturer and seller. And it sells it to these countries so we end up with Egypt having the same military weaponry that we have forced Israel to buy from us, as we forced Mubarak to buy those weapons from us. So we end up over in Sinai battling our own weaponry. It does not make sense except to those who make the weaponry and make the money of it. And that means you do not talk to these people about human rights. You talk to them about economics and how you can provide them with enormous wealth from the tax dollars in America, have those tax dollars forced to buy back from private industries making munitions in the United States. And they make money by having unending wars, dividing peoples and forcing them to eventually go to the streets in order to get back a semblance of humanity.