Pakistan's Former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto Assassinated

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Godsofchaos January 4, 2008 11:46 am (Pacific time)

"Once they're pointed out, then people begin to understand how there are those people in the world who simply have a different, even alien, value system when it comes to being honest and above board."Jefferson That is the point of debates is to express your viewpoint in a logical and civil way. Henry Ruark and Neal Feldman seem to lack the understanding of why debates exist. They are there to express difference of opinion not to bully those that disagree with you.

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Jefferson January 3, 2008 9:58 am (Pacific time)

Yes he is pretty obvious to those who use common sense and think objectively. We just need to help bring some other reader's up to the point where they can learn to focus more on his deceptional techniques...recall how those carnival midway barker's so easily fool some people? Once they're pointed out, then people begin to understand how there are those people in the world who simply have a different, even alien, value system when it comes to being honest and above board.

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Godsofchaos December 31, 2007 7:23 pm (Pacific time)

"clean it up, please!"Jefferson Don't except him to. Henry Ruark is easily angered or at least most of his posts make come off as cranky old man. (Possibly because he can’t handle the fact that news reporters like him are no longer irrefutable in the age of information.) "Glad to see more people have started to recognize Henry/TFI tactics,"Jefferson I recognized his tactics way back when in the waterbording debate.

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Jefferson December 31, 2007 2:37 pm (Pacific time)

Glad to see more people have started to recognize Henry/TFI tactics, it's so unfortunate he must use the Lords name in vain. What a pity for those who are concerned about the horrible language our children are picking up! Maybe we can soon enjoy some reasoned exchanges...clean it up, please!

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Henry Ruark December 30, 2007 6:12 pm (Pacific time)

Special for G/C: Frankly, don't give a good goddamn re debate, but do care a hell of a lot about open, responsible, honest, goodfaith dialog, as John Dewey defines it as foundation of education. 60 working years in various levels of communication taught me that painful lesson "the hard way". That particular failing in whole society, especially in governance at all levels, now sold out via corporate corrupt influence, is proof paramount, easily seen even by the most negligent citizen, forced upon him/her by economy, schools, tax avoidance, et al, et al, et al. Never ever get any solid remediation from those who hide behind the tree and are so unsure of selves they dare not slip off mask for ordinary social compact conversation, right here in public, and with ID known to all.

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Henry Ruark December 30, 2007 3:46 pm (Pacific time)

To all: See Comment under Education story. Re "blog" and anonymity, that is simple refusal to be held publicly accountable for statement, cowardly way to work even in debate, where it is impossible since debate definition requires full ID for participants to provide precisely the responsibility and accountability lost when anyone is allowed to "hide behind the tree", and snipe at will while so concealed. Would YOU accept that even in ordinary conversation ? If NOT, why accept it here in open channel designed and intended to provide not easy shot confrontation, but open, honest, sharing, good faith effort for mutual learning, and some forward progress on bleeding issues and terrible consequences of neocon rule over past eight years ?? You pays your money for this opportunity, so make what you will of it --and, if you can and do appreciate liberty, and abhor license used to defeat, deny and defy the recognized foundations for real democracy, then be aware of the consequences --which start right here, right now for all concerned.

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Godsofchaos December 30, 2007 12:34 pm (Pacific time)

"which can be such as to still continue his fraudulent reasons for non-ID: retaliation here or elsewhere."Henry Ruark Henry Ruark once again falls back on his favorite tactic. "If I can't win the debate I will demend them to ID themselfs. Who you are dosn't matter on a blog. You can be college professor but If you are not able to articulate yourself well you will get your lunch ate so to speak. How you present yourself and describe your idologoy and how you handle other people idologoy is the real key to how people look upon you on a blog. Like I said before I don't care what you do for a living a care about what you have to say.

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Henry Ruark December 30, 2007 8:05 am (Pacific time)

To all: N-N own-words re near-blind left-eye impact on duty assigned clearly reveals his fraudulent military-record claim. Which multiplies reason for him to now send editor any photo image proving his own claim to service, which can be such as to still continue his fraudulent reasons for non-ID: retaliation here or elsewhere. Surely he does not fear that "I'll have one of my guys take care of it" --per old gangster movies wellknown to all !!?? Some words may be powerful but they cannot approach the impact of waterboarding, if that's what he fears. So simple action can now set at rest any continuing shred of question re his credibility and also his remaing capacity for any truthful response to question demanded by his own continued insistence here: "WHO HE ???"

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Jefferson December 29, 2007 12:57 pm (Pacific time)

Henry regarding the eye problem and your removal from potential combat exposure: Ahh, so what!?

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Henry Ruark December 29, 2007 12:15 pm (Pacific time)

Never have seen any proof whatsoever of any claim-made by N-N, including educational record, if any. How come ? Too sensitive to share ? Too revealing to let loose ? Too sparse, fraudulent to allow "see with own eyes" ? Will allow my SigCorps photo for viewing here, but warn you it overvalues then-innocence and amiability. His probably water-stained from waterboarding, with full ID therefore perverted...

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Neal Feldman December 29, 2007 12:06 pm (Pacific time)

Jefferson - I demonstrate far more education and experience than you ever have. Also infinitely more intellect and sense. And I deal with the world as it is, unlike you and wingnuts like you who rage at how the world does not fit your delusions. It is not I who have the 'nuke them all' mentality... that is you. So rage on in your intellectual (and likely physical) impotence as you continue to prance about like the good little fool entertaining your betters and proving what kind of brainless troglodytes adhere to the neocon dishonesties. Awww did that make you angrier? Poor baby. Ah well...

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Jefferson December 29, 2007 8:46 am (Pacific time)

Yes I did spell dearth incorrectly, thanks for pointing that out feldman. As far as the rest of your post, you simply supported my thesis. Your dearth of a competent educational background cannot be corrected as easily as I correct my spelling. This dearth of a graduate level education coupled with your dearth of experience qualifies you for what feldman? I imagine you sit around just seething about how unfair the world has been to you. You have no concept of what's going on do you?

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Henry Ruark December 29, 2007 8:14 am (Pacific time)

To all: Disclosure: One of SigCorps manuals on which I worked was "Combat Photography"...for which I wrote ONLY chapter on Camera Controls, since I had not at that time "been there", but was best-experienced with Speed Graphic and Leica 35mm of few workers we had then. Was awaiting transfer to active "shoot-'em section" until near-blind left eye prevented duty with 10th Mountain destined for frontline. Was actually taken back from truck leaving Devens when so assigned, by late disclosure on left-eye. Can document allathis; how about YOU, N/N ?? !! Why not now "open up" as per 20 previous public invitations already --unless reality now too revealing for you.

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Henry Ruark December 29, 2007 8:05 am (Pacific time)

To all: My SigCorps service now well documented by photograph sent to Tim/Bon this morning. I invite N/N to do-the-same rapidly, or by lack of service proof reveal his fraudulent claim for same. But of course he cannot do so since to do any such will also reveal comprehensive fraud so cannily concealed until now. OR, if he substitutes other photos for self, he commits fraudulent act right here in public channel, open to full investigation by authorities. SO, N/N, get it up or simply see yourself fully-skunked by own words over time on too many points, issues, events and personal doings. Nothing like "see with own eyes" photo-proof, as famous old criminal investigator insisted in Chicago, while I was doing radio interview.

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Albert Marnell December 29, 2007 5:47 am (Pacific time)

Jefferson, What makes you think that the Tech and Field manuals where written by people with a true knowledge of anything social or sexual? Do you really think that the people who write these things are objective or scholars? These manuals are censored and manipulated and full of lies just like most things military. Lying or propaganda is the cheapest and most powerful weapon. Propaganda is more powerful than a hydrogen bomb.

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Albert Marnell December 29, 2007 5:29 am (Pacific time)

Jefferson, You are no different than a disruptive teenager who continuously gets thrown out of class and eventually gets thrown out of school. Don't tell people like Neal, Vic, Henry or I to look at ourselves. You look at yourself and figure out why you are behaving the way you do. You are the one that needs self examination.

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Albert Marnell December 29, 2007 5:23 am (Pacific time)

Jefferson, Do not credit yourself with "playing" anyone. You made comments and I responded. If you are here to "play people" and be disruptive or to prove something to yourself, why not go elsewhere. Did you ever consider going to a shrink? Why would any healthy person do what you do? Do you always act like an angry teenager? You are the one who is bitter as you claim everyone else is. Since all you want to do is "play" people, people should ignore you. Children like to "play" people for attention.

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Henry Ruark December 29, 2007 5:21 am (Pacific time)

To all: How odd nonentity should land on field manuals; happens my SC unit helped illustrate and write several in my time, now of course completely outdated by the latest on water-boarding and other more exotic, if internationally illegal, techniques. We had special facility set up for what amounts to reenactment of activities, to make sure they were practical with actual vets in motion. Rest is just more skunking, without more than aromatic values.

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Neal Feldman December 29, 2007 1:45 am (Pacific time)

Jefferson - Ah my pathetic little imbecilic lying coward it is no doubt how we would react... and it is not with anger, at least not on my part, but with mirth at your impotent ineptitude. You are a joke and not a particularly good one at that, though you do provide humor. It is clearly you who of us all are roiling with rage (and no small bit of insanity, clearly). But do try and delusionally attempt to project your personal failings ineffectively at us. We know they do not apply to any but you and so do any sane readers. You are a legend in your own mind only... tiny pathetic territory that may be. At least like any good fool you prance about to entertain your betters. LOL. And my Solstice gift to you my uneducated poltroon... the word you try (and fail) to use so often is dearth, not 'dirth'. And you look ever more stupid the more you use the wrong word (there is no word 'dirth'). Ah well...

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Jefferson December 28, 2007 10:40 pm (Pacific time)

The terrorist world knows no boundaries. Henry, combat veterans have nothing in common with some Signal Corp peace activist's like you. The rest of you are simply unaware of your environment. Marnell there exists a very large body of Tech and Field manuals that deal with developing among many many things, Unit Cohesiveness. The only cohesiveness many of you know is how to rationalize your absurd and inaccurate assessment of your environment. Look how easy it is to get you angry! You have been played and it was so easy to do. I guess, Henry, you don't have much of a background in the behavioral sciences. I knew how Vic, Feldman and Marnell would react, but I thought you would get it. Hope your grandson remains safe...people some of you really get upset, geesh!

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Albert Marnell December 28, 2007 8:05 pm (Pacific time)

SCOREBOARD Vic 3 Thomas 0

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Neal Feldman December 28, 2007 7:54 pm (Pacific time)

Henry - Hear hear! Some refuse to though. Ah well...

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Henry Ruark December 28, 2007 6:42 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Surely any rational, reasonable defense policy should preclude and prevent an illegitimate leader's lying propaganda "leading" the nation into illegitimage "war", at huge, continuing costs in life and treasure, while that nation languishes in large measure for many real needs for which it is thereby deprived.

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Neal Feldman December 28, 2007 4:49 pm (Pacific time)

To answer the coward's question reasonable national defense policy is to retaliate if attacked, or to act in as minimal a manner as does the job to prevent an imminent attack if such is percieved. Also to have an equipped state of readiness such that would be attackers know there will be a heavy price should they attack us. But the coward seems to like the 'pro-active' approach of just rattling our sabres and using gunboat diplomacy to bully our policies around the world, ignoring that this is but one of the legitimate reasons we get hated around the world. As for the chubbie you have against Israel I still see the standard arguments of the white supremacist skinhead screaming from your posts. You clearly show off far more than you realize. Ah well...

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Vic December 28, 2007 3:00 pm (Pacific time)

Thomas...you are so macho and manly...all us "girly men" admire your readiness to kill....anyone for any reason...you are a real piece of work. Sociopaths like you are the reason why I have a loaded gun in my house...

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Henry Ruark December 28, 2007 1:35 pm (Pacific time)

Re-read Nonentity remarks re LBJ and his failure to wipe out those Non-et-al feel SHOULD have been "destroyed". It should properly chill your blood, if any there is still in your heart as you see thus obvious open invitation to "Nuke 'em ALL ! OUR nation first, foremost always over ALL !" Surviving veterans from combat simply do not talk like that, in my rather wider than usual experience. To do so has ironic ring of psychosis for anyone trained to know. For someone to do so NOW, after historic moments anyone with brain and conscience must still regret, is...add your own here. Disclosure: I have one grandson about to return to Afghanistan, for his FOURTH segment of service time "out there" this time...that might just shape what I write a bit, as you will appreciate...

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Anonymous December 28, 2007 12:43 pm (Pacific time)

To all: In journalism, it is adage that most reporters and commentators fear ridicule more than any other single demeaning element used against their work. Here we have had constant usage of that "ridiculous" threat, against not only S-N writers but many commenting participants, too, mostly from same single source. SO let us simply reverse that attacking and manipulative approach, and let us apply simple common sense to what is now fully on the record from that source. Here again, friends, it becomes a matter of values and appreciations, perhaps best paraphrased by simple statement: Truth will set you free --if you can appreciate it and recognize it.

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Anonymous December 28, 2007 12:33 pm (Pacific time)

Now it seems nonentity must have made General somewheres along the way...without grad degree in that from West Point or Annapolis, either, I'll bet. Re historical analysis on elected Presidents, already done in depth and detailed books by many, he sets record straight without a word of qualification, experience, research, publication, or any other measure of credibility. If, indeed, he has such solid proof of what in his terms amounts to treason, let him sell his story to some national publication, with all the demanded tests by a system which does precisely that every day in depth and volume. Re rest of his s...(stuff, that is !), read it, weep, then make up own mind re his accountability, rationality, responsibility and credibility as demonstrated over long range now of examples here. I'm entirely willing to let this one rant, rave, revile, and without further response, since reminds me of what Lincoln wrote about skunk advertising its presence.

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Jefferson December 28, 2007 12:11 pm (Pacific time)

Neal and Henry: Tell me oh gifted ones, just how is our national defense set up? To wait until we are attacked then respond? Or to be pro-active? Neither of you have any experience to guide your opinions, just fantasy and the rationalizing you and others of similar dirth of experience provide each other. Note: Many surveys have been done with actual combat veterans (which is a very small percentage of veterans, e.g. , less than 10% who served in Vietnam are considered high stress combat veterans) regarding how they feel is the best way to address past, present and future enemies of America. Read past copies of different veteran' organization magazines to help inform. What I posted below pretty well sums up the "majority" viewpoints. Sure there are different assessments, I simply distilled what the majority acknowledged. Just the informed messenger here! P.S. I strongly believe that we can save a lot of lives by cutting all funding to Israel immediately. They put our planet in great peril! June 1967, they should have been destroyed by us, but if you knew more about LBJ, then you would understand why he didn't do what he swore an oath to do! He let so many Americans die needlessly on the www.ussliberty.com and later when the ship's captain was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor (an award that is almost always presented at the Whitehouse), this captain received it in a dank shipyard by a one-star Admiral. Look it up people, inform yourselves. LBJ and FDR need moe historical analysis regarding their administrations, but the socialists sure don't want you to have that info...

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Neal Feldman December 28, 2007 11:43 am (Pacific time)

As to the assassination stupid move... they just elevated her to sainthood... and they cannot kill that. Martyrs are the last thing one wants to create for the opposition. Expect current power structure to be soon swept away (unless military decides to just dig in with a full coup eliminating any facade of democracy there). Ah well...

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Neal Feldman December 28, 2007 11:41 am (Pacific time)

Thomas (Jefferson) - You so clearly do not get how you so admirably show yourself as one of the 'crazies' who has no idea what you are talking about. Now you come across as one of those whack job survivalist types. Pathetic. So you keep on with violence and testosterone as the way to the future and intelligent folks will seek more sustainable and legitimate means towards adding to civilization instead of detracting from it. You come across as some kind of kill crazy psychopath just looking for approval to go out and kill people. Ah well...

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Anonymous December 28, 2007 11:36 am (Pacific time)

Thomas: As reporter, editor, commentator, educator, have had some long, strong talks with real combat vets. They do NOT come across as you do. They do NOT demean all others of UNviolent, civil disposition as "girly men". They do NOT rush to any occasion for displaying their claimed "combat experience", since it has seared forever in both heart and mind what war really means to all -and they despise and dishonor it, rather than display unwanted zeal for "more and merrier" conflict and killing. All deplore torture, too, seeing it as evil and cowardly no matter by whom used, for what purpose. Why don't you go waterboard a whale or two ??

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Thomas December 28, 2007 10:38 am (Pacific time)

The meek shall not inherit the earth girly men. Combat experience allows one to fully understand just what evil is...many of you will never have to face that, but you sure expect other's to protect you. The day is coming, that you will not have that protection, and those smalls arms, if you have any at all, plus your dirth of training and "experience" will not be enough to help you in what is coming. I might add, those who know violence, real violence, will do everything they can do prevent it, ergo, you always maintain a superior military advantage, then all you have to kill are the crazies, and those who will blow themselves up (including their children) are nuts! Suffice, I guess you girly men will call all combat veterans war mongers, and good luck with that! Go to an American Legion, VFW, etc. meeting and tell them you would like to lecture them on how really bad they are. Wimps!

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Henry Ruark December 28, 2007 8:53 am (Pacific time)

To all: Basic Bush attitude is "We own this world, and all in it should be American serfs, the sooner the better !" One can see that surely demonstrated in the Thomas (aka Jefferson) statement, built on fear of realities and the consequences sure to come, as in the Pakistani assassination. No rational, reasonable policy at any level or on any issue can cope with such concentrated psychological and psychotic venom and venality. But the American democratic process, set into place by prescient Founders, provides our still-best --and perhaps rapidly become our ONLY-- continuing escape. So let's get on with taking our nation back from this excrescence in history, and resuming our world leadership when we again have proven we deserve that role.

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Albert Marnell December 28, 2007 4:43 am (Pacific time)

Bingo Vic! Right on target.

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Vic December 27, 2007 3:10 pm (Pacific time)

Thomas, can you name a race or a group of people that does not hate weakness? You make it sound like it is something contrary to our Western way of thinking. I mean, the United States spends 25 times more on weapons and the military than the #2 country in that category, China....Id say we are the ones obsessed with military might and the ability to bully anyone, anywhere. We also are the #1 arms dealers in the world...responsible for spreading more weapons in more places.We have military bases all over the world in some 121 countries. We have more WMDs than everyone else combined. So it seems that inducing fear into the world is good for American business.The

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Henry Ruark December 27, 2007 5:21 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Follow Thomas far enough and you will find his only solution is "Kill 'em all ! The faster the better ! AND torture is useful to force out the full information we must have to do the job !"

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Thomas December 27, 2007 12:35 pm (Pacific time)

They have nukes! They hate non-muslims! They volunteer their children to become suicide bombers! Ergo, you cannot apply western thinking/value systems in dealing with these people. You must always negotiate from a position of strength, for they hate weakness, really hate it!

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Richard December 27, 2007 12:00 pm (Pacific time)

Shows she was feared to be the next Minister so she really won even dying she is #1. A very big loss for Pakistan.

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Albert Marnell December 27, 2007 11:40 am (Pacific time)

Nothing major happens in the world without the knowledge of the 120 people that met in Istanbul, Turkey this year. They are at the top, the level below are councils and roundtables, then come governments and corporations. The elite that own a part of the planet are the Bilderberg. They will do anything if it promotes their long term agenda of global domination with puppet governments. They have all the money they need. The final thing they want is power over the world. Read-up on it or watch "End Game" by Alex Jones. These 120 elite are our rulers not President Bush or any other puppet. The King of Spain, Juan Carlos, will be getting profits from the Trans-Texas Corridor....a superhighway that will go from the center of Mexico through Texas, the Midwest and into the center of Canada. These are the kind of people that we should fear, not small rebel groups that our military seems to be endlessly chasing. That toll highway alone will flood North America with cheap goods from cheap labor and it will destroy the U.S., Canada and Mexico as we know them. Don't fear a lone gunman. Keep an eye on what the Bilderberg is up to. They are behind most of the evil in the world. Power crazy and sociopathic is the only way to describe them.

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Vic December 27, 2007 10:41 am (Pacific time)

Sharif is the only one who benefits from this. Bhutto is gone and Musharraf is hated more than ever. I think Sharif may be behind this. Just an observation.

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