Health Care Debate Based on Total Lack of Logic

(PASO ROBLES, Calif.) - livescience.com - Jeanna Bryner senior Writer– Wed Aug 26, 8:35 am ET

Heated partisan debate over President Obama's health care plan erupting at town hall meetings has more to do with illogical thought processes than reality, sociologists are finding.

People on both sides of the political aisle often work backward from [opinions based on false, but] firm conclusions to find supporting facts, rather than [use] evidence [to] inform their views. A survey out this week finds voters split strongly along party lines regarding key parts of the plan. Example: about 91 percent of Republicans think the proposal would increase wait times for surgeries and other health services, while only 37 percent of Democrats think so.

A totally rational person would lay out - and evaluate objectively - the pros and cons of a health care overhaul before choosing to support or oppose a plan. But we humans are not so rational, according to Steve Hoffman, a visiting professor of sociology at the University of Buffalo.

"People get deeply attached to their beliefs," Hoffman said. "We form emotional attachments that get wrapped up in our personal identity and sense of morality regardless of the facts. And to keep our sense of personal and social identity we tend to use a backward type of reasoning in order to justify such beliefs.”

Similarly, past research by Dolores Albarracin, a psychology professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, has shown that people who are less confident in their beliefs [ignorant of the truth] are more reluctant than others to seek out opposing perspectives; these people avoid counter evidence all together.

Hoffman said, “Just about everybody is vulnerable to the phenomenon of holding onto beliefs even in the face of iron-clad evidence to the contrary,” Why? Because it's hard to do otherwise. "It's a [daunting] challenge to break out the Nietzschean hammer and destroy [one’s] world view and belief system, and to evaluate [the views of others honestly and with logical consideration].” *

Hoffman's idea is based on a study he and colleagues did of nearly 50 participants, all Republican [who] reported believing in the link between the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks and Saddam Hussein. Participants were given the mounting evidence that no link existed and then [were] asked to justify their belief. " All but one held onto their [fixed] belief, using a variety of so-called “motivated reasoning strategies.” (“We're not making the claim that Democratic or liberal partisans don't do the same thing. They do," Hoffman said).

"Motivated reasoning is essentially starting with a conclusion you hope to reach and then selectively evaluating evidence in order to reach that conclusion," explained Hoffman's colleague, sociologist Andrew Perrin of the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.

For instance, some participants used a backward chain of reasoning in which they supported the decision to go to war [by assuming] any evidence [presented] to support that decision is correct, including the link between 9/11 and Hussein.

"For these voters, the sheer fact that we were engaged in war, led to a post-hoc search for a justification for that war," Hoffman said. "People were making-up justifications for the fact that we were at war."

The proposed health care plan has all the right ingredients for such wonky reasoning, the researchers say. The issue is both complex (no single correct answer), emotionally charged and potentially history-changing. Town hall settings make for even more rigid beliefs because changing one's mind about a complex issue can [disturb] a person's sense of identity and sense of belonging within a community. If everyone around you is a neighbor or friend, you'd be less likely to change your opinion, the researchers say.

"In these one-shot town hall meetings, where you have an emotionally-laden complex issue like health care, it's very likely you're going to get emotionally-laden debates.”

"The health care debate would be vulnerable to motivated reasoning, because it is, and has become, so highly emotionally and symbolically charged," Perrin said during a telephone interview, adding that “images equating the plan with Nazi Germany illustrate the symbolic nature of the arguments.”

To bring the facts from both sides to the table, Hoffman suggests venues where a heterogeneous group of no more than six people for and against the proposed health care system can meet. In groups of more than about six people, one or two members will tend to dominate the discussion. “People don't reason with pure facts and logic alone," he said.

Logical arguments alone might not be the key to settelement, according to Professor Perrin who says, "I think it's strategically important that the Obama administration and advocates of a health care plan pay attention to how people feel and the symbolism they are seeing rather than deal just with nuts and bolts.”

Bruno's Hermetism belongs to the 16th century, tending toward religious toleration or some kind of pacific solution of religious difficulties, and is a suitable analogy to the subject at hand, for there is little difference between religion and politics:

I see clearly that we are all born ignorant and willing to acknowledge our ignorance; then as we grow, we are brought up in the disciplines and habits of our house, and we hear disapproval of the laws, rites, faith and manners of our adversaries and of those who are different from ourselves, while they hear the same about us and our affairs. Thus, just as there are planted in us by the natural forces of breeding the roots of zeal for our own ways, so in others an enthusiasm for their own different customs are instilled.

Thence it easily becomes axiomatic that we should esteem the oppression and slaughter of the enemies of our faith as a pleasing sacrifice to the gods; as they do also, when they have done the like by us. And they render thanks to God for having vouchsafed to them the light which leads to eternal life with no less fervor and conviction than we feel in rejoicing that our hearts are not blind and dark as theirs are.

------------------------------------------------
Kenneth G. Ramey was a 79-year old "writer without a Website" who is generating excellent, provocative articles on the subject of religion and world affairs. We are pleased that Ken's "lone wolf" presence as a writer in the world has been replaced by a spot on our team of writers at Salem-News.com. Raised in Minnesota and California during the dark years of the Great American Depression, Ken is well suited to talk about the powerful forces in the world that give all of us hope and tragedy and everything in between. You can write to Ken at: darken1@sbcglobal.net

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Henry Ruark August 31, 2009 8:46 am (Pacific time)

To all: We've warned all re ongoing heavy-cost national noise machine operating to distort, pervert national policy via localized actions. Here's "see with own eyes" link to latest evidence now surfacing in D.C.: Health Insurance Lobby’s Stealth Astroturf Campaign Revealed! By Lee Fang, Think Progress Printed on August 31, 2009 http://www.alternet.org/bloggers/http://www.thinkprogress.org//142299/ Earlier this week, the Wall Street Journal reported that AHIP — the multimillion dollar lobbying juggernaut for the health insurance industry — has mobilized 50,000 employees to lobby Congress to defeat the public option. ThinkProgress has learned that AHIP’s grassroots lobbying is being managed by the corporate consulting firm Democracy Data and Communications. DDC has made a name for itself as one of the most effective stealth lobbying firms. Earlier this summer, DDC was caught by reporters using a front group called “Citizens for a Safe Alexandria” to attack the Obama administration for seeking to prosecute Guantanamo Bay prisoners in Alexandria, VA. ----------------- Further excruciating details via using link, including use of phones locally, and similar ties to open dialog channels, per our experiences on S-N.

Henry Ruark August 31, 2009 8:22 am (Pacific time)

"Anon: Re "people like" me, sir,I'm merely a reporter --properly restrained to truth via the principles of a very demanding profession. Which is why every point I make is documented by national and reliable sources, NOT the political pot/trash often used here. (Op Eds demand multiple sources, never fewer than 30 or 40 here.) Which is why we drive very determinedely for "see with own eyes" from reputab;e recognized sources acting on the same established principle points of journalistic and societal morality and methods, the latter tw0 built over more centuries than you have years. That way you can use own mind, if still operable, to evaluate for yourself -final test vs ANY words, including ours here !! Re history, your view is perverted via erroneous political pandering. IF roads to be built by profit-making "competition", why did President Ike have to institute superb nation- wide superhighway system, so badly needed it swept thru Congress as major project in billions ? If Social Security, Medicare and other main parts of social safety-net on way via private profit-making "competition", why did FDR et al have to make them come true for all ? IF profitable Southern planter mental/process did not rule for heavy dollar profits via slavery, why did Lincoln have to suspend laws, defend Fort Sumter from S.States and "nullification", fight Civil War to force end to possible Union break-up ??? If you look up last term ("nullification"), facts found may possibly change your view of distortions you cite --but I doubt if mind is still open enough for that to occur. Your participation here now truly recognized since it is occasion for explication in some depth. ID self with phone to Editor for more dialog, thus saving time, attention and costly space here. Booklist compiled (AND READ !!) now numbers more than 50 in last two years, will share with you at no cost, usually fee of $20.

Anonymous August 30, 2009 4:04 pm (Pacific time)

Hi Daniel. I agree, quite rambling yes? Not a joke tho sir. Kids mostly look to authority figures, and act accordingly. Proven fact. People are now saying "well, obama HAD to lie to get elected, its just the way it is".. So, now, not telling the truth is ok, as long as it has some kind of outcome. If my children saw me fibbing to get ahead, instead of working hard to get ahead, which do you think they will pick? Understand now? The basis of my post was this tho. Big government was running on a credit card, paid for by tax payers, and its endgame time now. Hope you all enjoyed your medicare. The U.S. is now borrowing money to pay the interest on the money they already borrowed. I feel sadness that so many have a difficult time understanding simple thoughts of truth. Its ok to lie, its ok to spend beyond your means, etc. :-(

Daniel August 30, 2009 12:07 pm (Pacific time)

Ano what a mindless ramble , '' his lack of good choices rubs off on the kids and they become lazy '' What the heck are you talking about ! Is this post a joke or what ?

Anonymous August 30, 2009 8:12 am (Pacific time)

Without government intervention, roads etc. would have been built by private business, and COMPETITION would keep prices low. As far as medicare etc? Jimmy, a husband and dad, gets a credit card with a $100,000 limit. He quits his job, and takes a year vacation. He gets job offers, but he tells them to take the job offer somewhere else. (outsourcing). His lack of good choices rubs off on his kids, and they become lazy. (unethical government rubbing off on society as a whole). Well, the year is up. He has no money, and no job. He loses his house and his family. Time to pay the piper. And it is people like you Henry, that were applauding his actions, wheeee! this is fun!! instead of scolding him and denouncing his borrowing of so much money. Well, the gig is up. I have a graph also, that shows exactly, what a "stimulus" plan does. Here it is. http://www.fxtrademaker.com/usdx.htm Right back where we started, but trillions more in debt. Must see health care video, 30 seconds long: http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-flashback-combining-private-public-healthcare-sectors-worst-of-both-worlds/

Henry Ruark August 28, 2009 5:22 pm (Pacific time)

August: You entirely overlook 250 years of American history now seen worldwide as greatest demonstration of freedom and liberty ever to exist. Do we have problems ? You betcha, 2st Century demands much more than unsubtle selfish sabotage from all of us. Re government successes, so many even silly sequences like yours have become meaningless to those who know and are now living in some of the best conditions in the world. It is NOT YOUR healthcare until, unless you now pay all the subsidies surrounding every form, kind, component and essential...need I name 'em all for you ? Start with roads leading to hospital; ambulance lights; gasline via regulated system; air/conditioned ER via electric lines...et al,et al...but useless to spend time, attention, space here for you-and-others. Why don't you just depart for Mars, and make your own new world there ? Might be able subsist on Martian dew, if you understand that lingo.

Sweet Jesus August 28, 2009 4:13 pm (Pacific time)

oops! Are you saying SS and Medicare are failures? They work for me. I gather you are too young to know, and are repeating what others tell you THEY think. I may not be around to know, but I'd guess there will be millions who will be glad for Health Care when it passes. Be a god fellow, give the less fortunate a break.

Henry Ruark August 28, 2009 3:07 pm (Pacific time)

q-v: No intention to denigrate you, simply want to read your stiff, if any...might learn something somehow from its form, function, and folly, if not from content.

Henry Ruark August 28, 2009 2:59 pm (Pacific time)

qui vivi: Take another deep swallow of that drink, then drop right into glass to save time and further effort. DJ is right on re cognitive dissonance, and if you ID self to Editor with working phone will send you couple pounds of print-documentation you can drink in, when you swim out of glass...happens I've done some digging to write about same. Whata have you done ? Where published ? What background and experience for your points made so awkwardly here, as cheap-shot unworthy of open, honest, democratic dialog we try to achieve here.

qui vivi August 27, 2009 7:09 pm (Pacific time)

DJ: Your ignorance is showing, as is your "Big Brain" psychosis. was it your choice, or were you taught to denigrate intelligent conclusions?

August 27, 2009 3:48 pm (Pacific time)

oops. I thought I clicked on the ted kennedy death article on my previous post.
In regards to health care? People have easily come to the conclusion that anything the government gets involved in will be a failure, and/or more control over our lives. Since people now UNDERSTAND that, then the "socialists" you mention without names, do not understand this. Government has ruined everything they touch, and people realize that. Both democrats and republicans.
Is that so difficult for you to understand? The war on drugs = failure, the war on terror = failure, the war on poverty = failure...not going to let them have my health care.
Our government is a failure, and obama supporting the federal reserve bank, and his wall street friends, is proof that the status quo will continue.

Henry Ruark August 27, 2009 9:37 am (Pacific time)

To all: Friend Ken R's insightful piece brings to mind adage learned long ago at I.U. in early work on propaganda analysis: "Can lead to water, can't make them drink... Can lead to cogitation, can't make them think." But human progress demands we keep right on stating fully, truthfully, and very intensely what we know to be valid, reliable, trustworthy, tested, and irrefutable.

Daniel Johnson August 27, 2009 4:16 am (Pacific time)

Another example of big brains (sociologists) required to "verify" a self-evident chain of events. People believe what they want to believe and come up with rationalizations to make things that don't fit, fit. It's called cognitive dissonance (another sociological invention).

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Health Care Debate Based on Total Lack of Logic

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