Listening to Body Language

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Storm Brewing? August 29, 2009 9:13 am (Pacific time)

Having written my comments about the wasted engergy of the health care debate, I would like to present the idea that it would be helpful if the whites who are so angry would do some introspection, identify what they are really angry about, and realize that they are angry about race issues, including the usurpation of the government and the duplicity of the media in favor of “minorities,” etc., by special interest groups that for decades have eroded government function to the point that it has allowed the majority to be disenfranchised. They could be complaining about not being represented at all, even though they are still the majority. But it would require that big leap into the arena of race. As long as everyone (nearly) is fearful of confronting the issue of race and usurpation of a majority white nation by minorities and their politicos, it will not happen. Moronic scenes such as those at the town hall meetings, will continue. At some point, that will no longer do. Then, we may get down to business. Those who understand the histroy of Western Civilization knows exactly what is going to happen in the near future.

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Martin August 29, 2009 8:35 am (Pacific time)

It sounds as though the Swine Flu, as per the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta may provide for some interesting theories as to why the below stats are the way they are. Could it be a lack of affordable health care, or maybe some other factors are at work?

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Chase August 29, 2009 7:09 am (Pacific time)

Opinions are fine but sometimes the actions of others really clarify those opinions as we are seeing all over the country. It is a lot different when private citizens turn out versus those that are bussed in and often paid. Thousands Voice Anger over Health Care Reform - News Video - Sacramento KCRA.com ^ | 8/28/2009 "Thousands of people rallied at the Capitol over President Barack Obama's health care reform package." Video at link: http://www.kcra.com/video/20611967/index.html

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Anonymous August 29, 2009 6:56 am (Pacific time)

The leftwing communist democrats have been engineering the destruction of our Constitutional God given rights and liberties since the socialist party planned to undermine the Bill of Rights through the deception of liberalism in the 1920'2 as one of their own said then. President Ronald Reagen, the only conservative President of America in my lifetime, warned that health care reform was a vehicle to destroy Constitutional liberties and freedoms derived from God for all American citizens. The left hates Americans and themselves and freedom in general in their twisted hate fill miserable lives. Many democrats are finally becoming aware that the left is a communist party and that they elected them.

Editor: Were your parents brother and sister?  I know it has to be frustrating that you were unable to serve in the forces of Germany during the Third Reich, but your time has come and gone and that is it.  You are a rotting piece of bark on an old log that the wind hasn't blown away into the dirt.  Your point of view is like the odor of an old pair of shoes worn by a person with bad hygiene.  The man in Iraq who threw a shoe at Bush, now there is a man with courage.  You are a sad little case scared mostly of the awful things you see in yourself.    

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Martin August 28, 2009 7:05 pm (Pacific time)

Editor I also have many friends that I visit and who visit my family from Canada and different countries in europe. They all love their countries as I love mine, but they do admit that their national healthcare programs are inferior to ours. Canada just cancelled over 6,000 surgery procedures in British Columbia a few weeks ago. Headlines in England just announced over 4,000 babies were born in hallways and other open places in hospitals because they had no beds for the new mothers. See this happening here? It takes very little time to verify these facts, just put into a search engine something like "health care problem issues for [the country's name]." As far as racism and war, well that's a double edged sword you're swinging. Of all the major wars in the last hundred years what party did the sitting presidents belong to? As far as racist' policies, well this was not my doing nor yours, but all we can do is press for reforms and have all people's recognize their responsibilities in this insidious matter. As far as us getting along with the South Vietnamese as a reason we pulled out of Vietnam, well your source has his opinion, and there are many more. Regarding black owned corporations screwing over black people, may I suggest you spend some time in Nigeria, Kenya, Zimbabwe, South Africa, well, frankly all sub-Saharan Africa. This area of the world has always been a hell hole for the people who live there and "tribalism" is the main reason. It was relatives selling relatives during the global slave period, but it is still going on there. At least here in America we have options to pursue. Wars always are fought over something absurd, and oil is an absurd reason, but sometimes it may be a little more complex. We don't always have all the information, but war is never the answer, but if you must fight, then you get it over with immediately. That is what is coming down the pike. Ask yourself this simple question, why does President Obama want a national security force as strong and as well funded as our military? What does he know that we don't? Who do we need protection from? He is on record asking for this security force, so it ain't made up. Maybe you should ask yourself why he stopped the prosecution of those people who intimidated voters in Philly last November also? If he wants respect then he needs to earn it, and so far there have been absolutely nothing that he has done that has even been remotely successful. Also he wants a bill passed giving him the authority to shut down the internet. Ummm. National security force and control over all private "over the air" communications. You have a response?

Editor: I went and listened to that sound bite that you are referring to; it is not what the President said.  I think the funniest thing I have heard yet is the thing about Obama going militant and all of that.  You just got done having a president who did the worst possible job for all eight years of his falsely appointed terms, and you survived that; what's to worry?  My points about black owned businesses is one relating to the United States, you know that.  Besides, Africa has been so ravaged by white people that the indigenous people are extremely challenged at all times.  Maybe if Europeans hadn't tried to colonize the place it would have evolved in a totally different way.  In the end you can think whatever you want, if you are even half or a fourth as troubled by the direction of this nation as I was during the Bush years, you had better visit your doctor.  I think that you will be OK, that you could just grin and bear it and see how things turn out.  In the end, don't you hope that all of Obama's best laid plans work out?  I sure hope so, and I hope all of the tea partiers have the same conviction, otherwise they aren't real Americans and probably never were to start with. .  

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Martin August 28, 2009 2:19 pm (Pacific time)

These people going to the Townhalls are simply energized voters who have serious concerns. No one is paying them, why must people demonize them for exercising their rights? I believe quite strongly that because of these strenuous objections to the health bill in it's current form, it will in time make for some better legislation. But the public option must be taken off the table and non-citizens not allowed to be on it, otherwise we will be flooded with an endless migration of illegals that will so overwhelm the health system that only incredible violence will come about. Try stopping upset people trying to get medical help for a loved one who is told to wait behind someone here iillegally, or that more rationing has happened so we can no longer provide quality healthcare. When it comes to most cancers, we have the highest survival rates and that is because of early detection, not something that will be continued when the system is over burdened as in places like Canada and England. Those are facts and easy to locate on the internet.

Editor: I have friends in Canada and England right now who say you are full of it.  I hate the fact that we Americans have to share space with a bunch of whiny unhappy people whose class do nothing but screw the world as it is.  Big money, restrict women's rights, use the church as an excuse while you bomb people into submission; that is the GO way.

Your class starts the wars, your ancestors (and mine sadly) enslaved people, barred black people from serving with white in the military until 1947.  Even during the Vietnam War, very recent history, Americans couldn't leave their racism at the door.  Experts like Author Perry Deane Young, who spent a considerable amount of time covering the Vietnam conflict, believe to this day that it was the American's inability to work with the South Vietnamese that ultimately cost us the war.  It is mostly because your class of people wage war for all the wrong reasons.  Show me a battlefield in recent years where oil isn't at least a factor.  Show me a dirty multi-million dollar corporation screwing its employees that is owned by a black person.  Freedom my ass... Pay your damned taxes, respect your president and know that times have changed, that is the best possible advice you could be offered.

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Jason August 27, 2009 1:30 pm (Pacific time)

Henry you are right on the mark about not using "personal feelings" as a basis for making an informed opinion. Nor should we allow public officials who violate an oath of office to be given a pass, especially if they reflect our ideology, for that just reinforces the moral violation(s). Too often we see emotional feelings trumping the intellectual process. Maybe that's why critical thinkers see through distractions that are currently being used by some shameless pols, while others are motivated by other things, such as money, to disrupt the political process. Watch the busses this September.

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Henry Ruark August 26, 2009 1:19 pm (Pacific time)

To all:
        Jason seeks solid, "reliable, valid" information.
        That is precisely why we depend on nationally-known, tested, proven, non-political sources for all S-N Op Eds.
    
        We cannot conceivably seek out such "valid, reliable" information ourselves but, as with all others here, we must depend on sources we know to reach journalistic standards and to be both "reliable" and "valid" --as shown by their national acceptance by others and across many other media channels.
    
         This particular point is of prime importance todqy due to the very heave noice  machine and dedicated voluteer escape-mechanisms widely now employed, intentionally distorting and perverting any posible open channel --as S-N experience has proven.
    
        So, Jason, nothing personal and glad you had OCE experience, which for me shaped up most of the rest of my iife...so far, that is !
    
        But personal feeling does not make informed opinion...that takes the level and atandard of sources we use...one lesson learned long before OCE, at United Press in Boston, filing New England wire to several hundred daily newspapers, with extremely touchy editors carefully guarding their own newapapers for "reliable, valid."

reliable (as in "authentic") adj. : conforming to fact and therefore worthy of belief; "an authentic account by an eyewitness"; "reliable information"  

valid (as in "valid") adj. : well grounded in logic or truth or having legal force

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Jason August 27, 2009 8:40 am (Pacific time)

The townhall meetings have in most cases, been excellent for the democratic process, but it appears that many paid mobs are on the way which will probably be harmful to the process. This will become quite clear in September. My time budget allows an occasional post. It is facinating that some people still go over the Florida election, and it appears that it will always be a contentious issue for many. I have similar opinions about the Washington state governor election a number of years ago and in Minnesota. The saying that you keep recounting until you win is right on the mark. Happy to hear you have an OCE background. I also was on a doctorate program at OSU, but a family situation came up and I pulled out. Best thing that ever happened to me, found a career I really enjoyed which helped me to support my family quite well. I have family members who went to OCE back in the 1920's when it was the Oregon Normal School. Though most of family were Willamette and Linfield grads going back to the late 1800's. These were excellent small schools that had excellent learning environments, but like much in education, there has been a steady deterioration. One just needs to look in your local media reports to see how education has been failing our students, primarily in the public sector, but also the private colleges, as standards have been dropped to accomodate those students who were publically educated. Not all, but a significant percentage. Of course there is an excellent way to get our schools back on track, plenty of past models can be used, but the educational process is no longer about teaching/learning, but power and inculcation. It is not to late to reverse the above situation, but time grows short.

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Henry Ruark August 26, 2009 1:04 pm (Pacific time)

Jason: Know OCE well, 1st Oregon job was as President Henry Gunn's news/publication director. To OSU from there for M. Ed. Yr thesis/adv. right on money re "how to think", but "Can lead to water, can't make 'em drink; can lead to cogitation, can't make 'em think" --adage from mine at Indiana re D. Ed. abd, then to OrDeptEd. Later at PCC as Amo D's publications/news chief, followed by Vera Katz, for whom they split the job. Fact is fact, undeniable in this situation, no longer sustainable so MUST do SOMEthing re healthcare costs, as well as for 47 MILLION now without human right due them. Re Bill/Rights, as with Constitution, open to wide and wise interpretation. Nothing there re deprive millions of human right, either, via lack of government function due at least as much as national security, closely allied with that necessity, too. Re Florida, it was GOPster staff sent from DC (by Cheney) and known-such at/time by sharp reporters. Politics to win by any means must have some limits, short of treasonous actions now on record via neocons et al. Per previous, full ID to Editor with working phone will bring you direct contact with overwhelming documentation on every point mentioned here. WHY are you waiting ? Refusal to answer queries is best reflection of reason-why and destroys any possible remnants of credibilities for personal judgments, esp. when short of working links to any nationally recognized sources, feature of every Op Ed here.

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Martin August 26, 2009 10:13 am (Pacific time)

I see a reference was made to Florida below, well here's more insight about a false news report that was designed to change the 2004 election: BernardGoldberg.com. , in which he complains of how little mainstream media attention was given to the fact that former President George W. Bush had volunteered to go to Vietnam as part of his service in the Texas Air National Guard, but that he was turned down because other pilots were more experienced, and that CBS News producer Mary Mapes, even though she knew this part of the story before the report aired, did not include this important angle in the infamous piece by Dan Rather that used forged documents to paint Bush as trying to avoid Vietnam War service.

On his Web site, BernardGoldberg.com, Goldberg chastizes Mapes:

However the complexities and seeming contradictions are interpreted, if Bush at any point had volunteered to fly combat missions in Vietnam – as the CBS investigation unequivocally states — how then could he have been a slacker? The clear answer is that he could not – unless, of course, he volunteered to go to Vietnam knowing full well he wouldn’t be taken. But if that was the case, Mapes would have had an obligation to report both that he volunteered and then produce a credible witness to say it was a sham. She did neither.

Mapes, a well-known liberal at CBS News, has always contended that she had no agenda, that she was not out to get President Bush. But if she knew that George Bush had volunteered for service in Vietnam – as the CBS outside panel clearly concludes — she obviously had an obligation to share that with her viewers.

Editor: Do you realize how ridiculous you sound with your "liberal" labels?  We have known for many years that Bush is little more than a draft dodger.  Some day soon I will detail the facts of this story.  Never at any point have we even heard the allegation that Bush sought to go to Vietnam, indeed the facts speak an absolutely opposite story.

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Jason August 25, 2009 3:16 pm (Pacific time)

I was responding to the above article in my earlier post. How Florida is involved confuses me. I do know that several news organizations went and counted all the votes at a later time and the same result happened. I still wonder why the media called the election early for Bush, which they certainly knew would have suppressed the vote in the later time zone in the Florida panhandle, not to mention the rest of the country. I guess we can look at all kinds of places and see where both sides brought in people to pursue their agenda. It is a matter of public record via the LA Times and other media that different unions and Acorn were/are hiring people all over the country enmasse to attend these townhalls. Hey that's politics, and super. Glad we have that 1st Amendment to keep government in check. Regarding the Bill of Rights, it appears that the government has no constitutional authority to compel the individual or any employer to buy insurance. So I guess this may also be thrown to all three branches of governmment for future consideration. I may not be the most informed person, and I remember a Dr. Jim Gallagher at OCE (now known at Western Oregon University) who was my Thesis Chairman (my second graduate degree, other from Lewis and Clark) telling me to be content if I just learned how to "think", which we both agreed was antecedent to developing some wisdom. I know how to think a little better than I used to back in those formal academic days, and I am willing to alter my perspectives/opinion when new [reliable and "valid"] info becomes available.

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Henry Ruark August 25, 2009 10:31 am (Pacific time)

Jason et al: You want proof of awkward amd erroneous ?? : You wrote: "My guess is the unpaid are motivated by informed passion by the looks of their body language." WHY is "your guess" worth even these few words ? You in any way trained, experienced in such encounters ?? Anyone familiar with both public meetings and with any professional observation will rapidly appreciate fact of simple, silly, stupid reliance on single-person observation by undisclosed skills of unidentified so-called observer. (You put yourself there !!) Even decades-experienced and well-trained social scientists refuse to build observations on such slim and unreliable ostensible "observation". Trained reporter will demand actual contact and dialog with those so involved, and will seek out obvious-others for real shaping of observation, for both balance and objectivity, with professiona; reputation always right on the line for all to see, judge. For anyone to state so surely simply via partial view, obviously also already shaped by tv-camera/choice, is obscene distortion of fair and thoughtful statements here. Next time try a tiny bit of cogitation --does not ever hurt, and can prevent such damage as you have now brought on yourself and credibility here. Anyone question tv-camera shaping of situations-as-seen? Personal pro/ camera-work experience and current work reports from sons still active in tv-news, as well as LMA client work for decade in Chicago, are my reliable backup source for statement. You ever "been there, done that ?" ??

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Henry Ruark August 24, 2009 6:07 pm (Pacific time)

Jason: As usual, your distortions are so awkward they are entirely obvious. You mention "bussed-in union members" but never also speak of GOP-staff brought from DC to interrupt and negate Florida election, finally turned upside down by Supremes, causing conflicts far more serious than healthcare dialog-wrestles. That one is firmly on the public record reported in reliable national sources. But then that's universal characteristic of those who seek to speak publicly behind hide-name, and refuse all offers for direct dialog. SO, again, ID self to Editor for direct on this and any other topic. OR you could even do your own Op Ed, open to check on all documentation and also for any participant to comment. Why NOT ? You obviously find it safer and more secure and c convenient to maintain this semi-silly lack of any real credibility via cheap-shots wihthout due process of real identification, and with easy translation of motive-shown.

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Jason August 24, 2009 1:37 pm (Pacific time)

It appears both sides are pretty well organized. One side is no doubt made up of a large percentage of senior citizens and the other side has a large percentage of bussed in union members who are paid as per the media, for example LA Times articles. My guess is the unpaid are motivated by informed passion by the looks of their body language. Though I'm pretty confident that one can find experts in "non-verbal communication" who will go either way in their body language assessments. My money is on the side that has the senior citizens, for they have a dog in this battle more so than those paid to act out.

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Henry Ruark August 24, 2009 9:07 am (Pacific time)

To all: Cognitive research,for years including much re teacher skills in classroom action, support and supplement the main points made here clearly by our Dr. L. It is common "mob-control management"to make dead sure such action is simultaneous and also vocal, for anyone seeking to set up such ostensibly "spontaneous" events. There even exist several operational manuals for such malign political-pandering planned actions, including one specifically meant to UNdo and kill off Saul Alinsky, famed for Chicago counseling work. Reasonable,rational citizens need to understand such malign tactics and other destructive mob-rule/methods. "Citizens of the democratic societies should undertake a course of intellectual self-defense to protect themselves from manipulation and thought control, and to lay the base for meaningful democracy." -- Noam Chomsky on www.mediaed.org

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