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Sep-21-2009 22:38printcomments

Putting a $20,000 Price Tag on the Head of Every Murderer

Murderers would be turned in left and right if the people knew it would lead to a realistic reward. First published in 2009 but no less relevant.

Wanted poster for murderer
Salem-News.com

(SALEM, Ore.) - As a career news reporter, I've often wondered why Americans place such a low value on life. It seems that way when you think about it. When a person disappears or is murdered, their cases can go unsolved for years, decades, or permanently.

And we spend billions and billions on the War on Drugs which is a statistical failure. A small fraction of that funding could be used to arrest murderers and create safer streets for our kids.

I can not count the times I've seen $1000 and $5000 rewards for information leading to Murder convictions. It seems like a pathetic appraisal of human life and it begs the question, is that all we are worth?

Even those amounts aren't offered in each case, and while Murder cases languish in the back files, the FBI finds $50,000 to offer as a reward for citizens who help locate "animal activists". Fifty grand.

Interestingly, there is a power station near Lebanon, Oregon that is vandalized from time to time. When vandals hit the place, BPA offers a reward of over $20,000 to anyone who can deliver the criminals to justice.

Too bad people aren't so highly regarded.

Sure, families with plenty of money occasionally offer real rewards. I have seen them as high as $20,000, $50,000 or more. But why aren't we taking revenue and doing the same thing on a public level with it?

I guess it is more important these days for police to spend our money on unmarked patrol cars for traffic enforcement, something that California law doesn't even allow, and they blow endless millions of dollars in your taxpayer money prosecuting people who use marijuana, a plant that naturally grows out of the ground.

And all the while, a long list of murderers run the streets free. Some are caught, some are arrested by cops in a "cold case" scenario, as has happened more than once here in Salem, but still far too many are at large.

Questioning Priorities

My point is not that police aren't doing their best at all times to reign in killers. Murder is the most serious offense that a family can face, and each Murder should be a top priority to solve. It is terrible that real rewards are not offered.

Maybe we need to pressure politicians to realign budgets so law enforcement can change its priorities. Police could solicit non-taxpayer funds for rewards through fundraisers, for that matter.

This is the new world and Internet media in particular, is the single best way for police to get the word out about suspects at large, missing people, and murder suspects.


What would our society be like if turning in every Murderer led to a $20,000 reward?

Would that not be sufficient incentive to turn people around? Would it make the streets safer for citizens and police alike? I think it would.

Or let me put it this way; if each and every Murderer out there walking our streets had a 20k price tag on his or her head, there simply would be far fewer of them.

Before you judge this idea as less than economically sound, consider that five murders could be solved in a community per year at a cost of $100,000. The U.S. government under Bush offered rewards in the millions for "terrorists", how could it not be possible to offer $20,000 to an American who wanted to clean up their own neighborhood?

Twenty thousand is a realistic amount that could really tempt people who know murderers into turning them in. I predict that we would see an immediate response to this idea.

Your local and state governments have the funds for things like this, they need pressure, and they need to agree that priorities could be shifted in a positive way that would reduce the worst crime possible.

Here are stories that involve payments for people resolving crimes:

This link will take you to all of our stories involving rewards:

Salem-News.com 'reward' articles


Tim King: Salem-News.com Editor and Writer

Tim King has more than twenty years of experience on the west coast as a television news producer, photojournalist, reporter and assignment editor. Tim is Salem-News.com's Executive News Editor. His background includes covering the war in Afghanistan in 2006 and 2007, and reporting from the Iraq war in 2008. Tim is a former U.S. Marine who follows stories of Marines and Marine Veterans; he's covered British Royal Marines and in Iraq, Tim embedded with the same unit he served with in the 1980's.

Tim holds awards for reporting, photography, writing and editing from traditional mainstream news agencies like The Associated Press and Electronic Media Association; he also holds awards from the National Coalition of Motorcyclists, the Oregon Confederation of Motorcycle Clubs; and was presented with a 'Good Neighbor Award' for his reporting, by the The Red Cross.

Tim's years as a Human Rights reporter have taken on many dimensions; he has rallied for a long list of cultures and populations and continues to every day, with a strong and direct concentration on the 2009 Genocide of Tamil Hindus and Christians in Sri Lanka. As a result of his long list of reports exposing war crimes against Tamil people, Tim was invited to be the keynote speaker at the FeTNA (Federation of Tamil Sangams of North America) Conference in Baltimore, in July 2012. This is the largest annual gathering of North American Tamils; Tim addressed more than 3000 people and was presented with a traditional Sri Lanka ‘blessed garland’ and a shawl as per the tradition and custom of Tamil Nadu

In a personal capacity, Tim has written 2,026 articles as of March 2012 for Salem-News.com since the new format designed by Matt Lintz was launched in December, 2005. Serving readers with news from all over the globe, Tim's life is literally encircled by the endless news flow published by Salem-News.com, where more than 100 writers contribute stories from 23+ countries and regions.

Tim specializes in writing about political and military developments worldwide; and maintains that the label 'terrorist' is ill placed in many cases; specifically with the LTTE Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, where it was used as an excuse to slaughter people by the tens of thousands; and in Gaza, where a trapped population lives at the mercy of Israel's destructive military war crime grinder. At the center of all of this, Tim pays extremely close attention to the safety and welfare of journalists worldwide. You can write to Tim at this address: tim@salem-news.com. Visit Tim's Facebook page (facebook.com/TimKing.Reporter)

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Americans for a Stronger Israel


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Charlene October 1, 2012 2:12 pm (Pacific time)

Daniel I am familiar with studies of this type. I have a graduate degree in Educational Psychology from decades ago, but I have always continued keeping up with the various programs/studies and "learning theory" experiments that address enhancing students, faculty and parents. I believe you mean well Daniel, but
you should realize that those of us in the educational field who are true professionals, are well informed, and constantly read/evaluate the scores of educational research articles that are published "monthly." Have you thought about using your life experience, return to a university and getting a teaching endorsement? Then after doing that for say around N# years we may be on the same level. I taught my first class beginning in the fall of 1962. I spent nearly 30 years in the public school system. I taught K-12 for over 17 years and, 13 years as a school administrator. I was a union member, and a union rep. There was a time when unions were a reasonable organization within the educational system, but they became political, and soon became a hindrance, and now they are destroying the public school system. I entered the private school system approximately 20 years ago. Anyway Daniel, private and Charter schools are the future, and public schools will be fazed out within ten years in most locations outside of the large urban areas, regardless of what political party is in power. It is a financial reality, and it will be a magnificent change for our country, as these schools compete for students and their dollars. They will need to continually improve to stay competitive, and profitable. Capitalism is the incentive here, and will prevail ultimately in all areas of life. If you really are concerned about the different performances of students in the public and private arena, there is plenty of research/case studies out here. The New York Times, is not a place I would go to get "primary research analysis," nor the current Federal Educational Department run by A. Duncan, a former head of the failed Chicago School District and an Obama crony.

Chzrlene:

I think we might have some grounds for a reasonable discussion. If you think that's possible, email me at salem-news@shaw.ca and I'll start it off. Daniel 


Charlene September 29, 2012 6:00 pm (Pacific time)


DJ I am familiar with David Brooks, and the endless arguments that support unions as being necessary to aid the public education process. Essentially none of these arguments are reflective of what is going on, and simply demonstrate the poor understanding the left has on how the educational process works. I have extensive experience in the educational profession, both public and private. I have been successful because I know what I'm doing, and we have multiple real world models in the private sector that easily trump the poor performing public sector. Of course there are high performing public schools, but that number is in decline. The primary contention of the unions is their refusal to contractually agree to testing their members for competence. For example in New York City, literally thousand of teachers have been removed from the classroom for incompetence, but they cannot be fired without a very long and involved process, so they just go to a hall where they sit 8 hours a day and get their paychecks doing nothing. Is that fair to the taxpayer? This unfortunate situation in New York is happening all over the country, but what is worse, is that we still have thousands of teachers who need to be removed from teaching. Below is a link that reflects some reality for you DJ regarding David Brooks, but Mr. Brooks is paid well to say pretty much nothing of import. Of course if you compared and contrasted student performance tests between public and private sectors, the evidence is clear what happens when teachers are actually qualified to teach the subjects they teach, and administrator's are also professionally qualified. http://serr8d.blogspot.com/2011/02/david-brooks-gets-it-right-public.html

Unless you read the Brooks column (linked again, below), you have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm talking pre-union, pre-teacher reality. So many children arrive at school with drawbacks and failings that teachers are almost irrelevant to their progress. If you have experience as a teacher, you should already be aware of this. Read Brooks, then write back if you feel up to it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/opinion/brooks-the-psych-approach.html?emc=eta1  


Charlene September 28, 2012 6:48 am (Pacific time)

DJ as a former teacher, and a current educational consultant, one of the best ways to evaluate student performance is to review test scores "over time." Regardless of the variety of excuses uninformed liberals offer to excuse low performance, it does not matter when that student becomes an adult. If that individual cannot compete in the job market, then their life will be difficult in most cases. Is there a racial connection? Look at the data, not just here in the states, but all around the world. There lies the ultimate answer as per a racial connection to IQ. America has spent literally trillions of dollars sine the mid 1960's to pull people out of poverty by a variety of ways, including different educational methods. It has gotten worse, so now it's time for a new approach. Start by dissolving the public school unions.

DJ: Do you have a reason for suggesting that unions be dissolved or are you just a knee-jerk Republican anti-union proponent? Before responding (if you do) you might read David Brooks column first: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/opinion/brooks-the-psych-approach.html?emc=eta1 Unions, it turns out have little or nothing to do with the problems.


Jay Goldman September 26, 2012 6:22 am (Pacific time)

Tim great idea, let's start by going after those who cause the vast majority of murders at over 600% of their American population percentage? The below not

fit your misguided narrative? The below and the data is the TRUTH. Journalism is a profession, you ethically just don't pick out the "stuff" you like, unless

of course you are not a journalist. If the latter is not true, then it is well known, (DJ: By this criteria, Fox News is not about journalism but is actually an extension of the Republican Party) and it's just a matter of time until the clock will run out:

"Black Serial/Mass/Spree Killer List:"
1. Matthew Emanuel Macon (Murdered and Raped 5 White Women in Lansing)
2. Jimmie Reed (Murdered his wife and his 2 month old daughter and set them on fire)
3. Shelly Brooks (Murdered 7 prostitutes in Detroit Cass Corridor)
4. Justin Blackshere (Stabbed two white cooks at Cheli’s Chili downtown Detroit)
5. Jervon Miguel Coleman (Murdered three people.)
6. Donell Ramon Johnson (Murdered a mother and a daughter)
7. Brian Ranard Davis (6 women known murdered by nigger)
8. Paul Durousseau (Seven women)
9. Mark Goudeau “The Baseline Killer” (Eight women and a man in 2005-2006)
10. Coral Eugene Watts (11 women in Texas and 1 in Michigan)
11. Anthony McKnight (Five girls and young women)
12. Derrick Todd Lee (8 Women)
13. Charles Lendelle Carter (4 known murders; admits to ‘hunting’ Atlantans for 15 years!)
14. The Zebra Killings (71 White people)
15. Chester Turner (L.A.s most prolific killer 12 women killed.)
16. Lorenzo J. Gilyard (Kansas City, MO.—13 victims)
17. Eugene Victor Britt (Gary, IN.–3 known murder/rapes.)
18. Reginald and Jonathan Carr (The Wichita Massacre–6 Whites murdered)
19. Ray Joseph Dandridge and his uncle, Ricky Gevon Gray (Richmond, VA.–Murdered 7 people in 7 days, including an entire White family.)
20. The Tinley Park Murderer (Suspect hasn’t been found but has been described as black – murdered 5 women in a store.)
21. Henry Louis Wallace (Raped and strangled 5 women to death.)
22. Charles Johnston (Murdered 3 unarmed white men in hospital)
23. Craig Price (Brutally murdered 3 women)
24. Harrison Graham (Brually Murdered 3 women)
25. Charles Lee “Cookie” Thornton (Murdered 6 Whites at the Kirkwood, MO. city council. )
26. and 27. Darnell Hartsfeld and Romeo Pinkerton (Abducted and Murdered 5 from a restaurant)
28 and29. John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo (Sniped 11 people from a car in DC, 9 died.)
30. George Russell (3 women, WA state)
31. Timothy W. Spencer (5 killed, Arlington, VA and Richmond, VA)
32. Elton M. Jackson (12 gay men killed, Norfolk, VA area)
33. Carlton Gary (3 killed in Columbus, GA)
34. Mohammed Adam Omar (16 women, Yemen. Omar is Sudanese.)
35. Kendall Francois (8 women, Poughkeepsie, NY and surrounding areas.)
36. Terry A. Blair (8 women, Kansas City area)
37. Wayne Williams (33 many of them children!, Atlanta, GA)
38. Vaughn Greenwood (11 killed in LA)
39. Andre Crawford (10 killed in Chicago – southside)
40. Calvin Jackson (9 killed possibley more in NY)
41. Gregory Klepper (killed 8, Chicago – southside)
42. Alton Coleman (Killed 8 in the Midwest)
43. Harrison Graham (killed 7+ in N. Philadelphia)
44. Cleophus Prince (6 killed in, San Diego
45. Robert Rozier (7 killed in, Miami)
46. Maurice Byrd (killed 20 + in St. Louis)
47. Maury Travis (17 and rising, St. Louis and possibly also Atlanta)
48. Hulon Mitchell, a.k.a. Yahweh Ben Yahweh (killed 20+ in Florida)
49. Lorenzo Fayne (killed 5 children in East St. Louis, IL)
50. Paul Durousseau, (killed 6, two of which were pregnant women, Jacksonville, FL; Georgia.)
51. Eddie Lee Mosley (killed 25 to 30 women, south Florida)
52. Henry Lee Jones (killed 4 in, south Florida; Bartlett, TN)
53. Richard “Babyface” Jameswhite (15 killed in, New York; Georgia.)
54. Donald E. Younge, Jr. (killed 4), East St. Louis, IL; Salt Lake City, UT.
55. Ivan Hill (killed 6 in Los Angeles area).
56. Michael Vernon (Bronx, NY. Killed at least seven people – )
57. Chester Dewayne Turner (12 women killed in, Los Angeles) There is no doubt that some Blacks are law-abiding and nonviolent. However, there is also no

doubt that Blacks disproportionately commit more crime (particularly violent crime) in the US than any other ethnic group. Even impoverished whites don’t

come close to the overall crime rate of Black Americans. And you can’t blame it on poverty and poor education. West Virginia is one of the most White (95%)

and least Black (3%) states in the US. WV is also one of the poorest states in the US (it has the 2nd highest rate of poverty after Mississippi). The bulk of

its public schools are mediocre at best. Yet WV has the lowest rate of crime of any state in the US with only about 2,500 crimes reported for every 100,000

people.

Black Americans continue to test significantly lower on IQ tests than any other ethnic group. Even after 30+ years of massive funding and special programs to

improve Black intelligence and educational performance. Wealthy and privileged Black kids continue to lag far behind their White classmates in every measure

of academic success: grade-point average, standardized test scores, and enrollment in advanced-placement courses.

This isn’t racism. It is the facts. (DJ: The idea that Blacks score lower on IQ tests has been debunked for a long time. Presenting it as you do, it is racism, pure and simple.){http://blackpeoria.wordpress.com/list-of-black-serial-killers/}


Tim King September 24, 2012 12:36 pm (Pacific time)

I just contacted a large NW police agency's public affairs department to discuss this idea of locating individuals who could provide the reward money for an idea like this, and the agency's representative from their public affairs bureau was hesitant to even provide an email address so I could send him this article.

I have to say that is so disheartening that there are no words for it, NO WONDER there are so many unresolved crimes, absolutely sad.  Americans, you are being led down a dark road, this leaves a rotten taste in my mouth.  These cops love to be on TV and they love to talk about how bad things are but when it comes to new and good ideas they are out to lunch, absolutely FUBAR.


JamesFre September 23, 2012 5:36 pm (Pacific time)

I think the purpose of the story is being missed, I am sorry for Justice 4 I wish his family truth and freedom once they catch the murderer. as you can tell from our society even 20k does not entire most to try to find a murderer, you will actually see there are known confessed murderers with a 100k bounty on them still walking the streets, check it out www.dianedowns.com and Anne I am sorry about my grammar http://www.salem-news.com/articles/august172012/diane-downs-1-tk.php


Anonymous September 23, 2012 3:35 pm (Pacific time)

Groups get together to find "cures" for this and that, groups get together to expose things such as this article, GMO, vaccines, flouride etc., but very few go down the rabbit hole to find out the root cause of these things. Not finding the root cause, and eliminating it, will only lead to more death and destruction. Many KNOW the root cause, and many are spreading the truth. The history, and who is causing the problems of this planet are quite clear if you take the rose colored glasses off and actually look at it.
I am currently in the process of making a video to explain this more clearly. I am, of all things, using mainstream movie clips to help explain. Because ya see, those who own the tv, hollywood, movies, mainstream news are but a few of the same people, and THEY are one of the roots of the problem. The thing is, they are arrogant, and they will write down what they are doing, or put it in movies. But they do it stealth. They will write a book with 1500 pages, or in U.N. documents, knowing the sheeple wont read it, or put it in a movie in ways the sheeple dont get it. Their own words "we told them what we are doing, if they want to remain ignorant, then they get what they deserve"....
What upsets me about this statement, is that they have dumbed down the population purposely for many decades thru the education (indoctrination) system, tv, lies of mainstream news etc. How can they expect the average person to learn this stuff? This is another point of how evil those are that are in control. Some call them bankers, some call them globalists, NWO, khazars, jews, even lizards, but the latest term I agree with for the most part is "rothchild zionists" This includes the queen of england, the vatican, london and washington DC. Many say its israel, but israel is simply an appendage of the zionists, placed for geographical location to take over the middle east, use the holocaust for control, and religion to control the hagee/etc cult.
Sorry, writing a novel here. bye for now..oh, how about a sunday song? You might remember this one Tim.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHzhgjpkmf4

Tim King: Thanks Stephen


Brenda September 23, 2012 12:34 am (Pacific time)

That is one of the best ideas I have heard yet, perhaps if those reading this ever had to experience the brutality of having a life ripped away from them then they would understand.  More power to this theory.


Justice 4 Dave January 7, 2010 2:35 pm (Pacific time)

Dave Lewis was brutally burned and his home arsoned to the ground on 9/4/08, Ashland,Oregon. He was last seen at Hyatt Lake Resort. Another cabin was arsoned to the ground that night as well. There is a $ 20,000. REWARD for an arrest and a $5,000. REWARD for any pertinent info. Please GOOGLE Dave Lewis Ashland Oregon and/or Bob McNeely-Jeanne Plante; Hyatt Lake Resort.
www.myspace.com/davelewismurederarsonor


Mike Helm November 30, 2009 3:22 am (Pacific time)

I think you misread my initial post. I said if you feared for your live or other's lives, you could shoot and kill someone for trespassing and causing such fear. For example, they come in with masks on and guns in their hand. Of course you're going to shoot them. Do you think they were looking for some leftover Turkey from Thanksgiving or something? By the way Daniel, if you were caught using your iPod while on the road, and hit and killed someone, you could be charged with involuntary manslaughter.


Daniel September 29, 2009 9:36 pm (Pacific time)

Sorry for any typos , I am on the road using an ipod .


Daniel September 29, 2009 9:20 pm (Pacific time)

Also never ever pull or point a weapon at a police officer on your land or in your house , you may be shot and will charged with a crime. Some people do not get this simple fact !


Daniel September 29, 2009 8:19 pm (Pacific time)

Phil also if you understand castel laws , named after dirty Harry , you will understand how they remove some of the gray areas .


Daniel September 29, 2009 8:03 pm (Pacific time)

Phil I am not telling people not to not protect themselves but to know the law in Oregon . The question was on use of lethal force for simple trespass , your answer gave the impression its ok to shoot for trespass only . Please read Oregon Law , I have and I find many gray areas ,even in the area of self defense .Please do not take my word for it Phil read it yourself then your knowledge will be first hand .


Phil September 29, 2009 7:02 pm (Pacific time)

Daniel obviously we are discussing different area's of Oregon's criminal statutes when it comes to self-defense. I have had a CHL since they were first authorized by law and my county sheriff issued me one immediately. I am not an attorney but when we help people develop self-defense programs for themselves (no fees involved, just for referred individuals) and family members we make sure that they receive the appropriate info in layman terminology. Earlier I was talking about self-defense when one feared for their life (or someone else's), and there is ample legal precedent that the use of deadly force in this situation is a legal defense. My hope is that everyone who has a weapon keeps themselves updated on all laws so as not to do something stupid. There have been very few people who have had their CHL revoked for cause not just in Oregon, but nationally. In fact statistically it is a very safe population when it comes to both not becoming a crime victim or having a gun related accident. There is some data that shows CHL holders stop a considerable amount of crime, but I'm not very familiar how they developed that database via a Harvard tenured professor so I will not source it. Again I encourage all who own any type of weapon to get updated info and training. We all get rusty as time slips by. Even combat veterans.


Daniel September 29, 2009 1:13 pm (Pacific time)

Also Phil if you do not know what castle laws are please look them up on google or anyone else who has interest.


Daniel September 29, 2009 12:53 pm (Pacific time)

Phil if you read mikes post it states shooting someone for simple trespass , it does no say trespass and fearing for your life only trespass . Phil you stand corrected please read oregonlaw . Somone last month was sent to prison for shooting a person sleeping on his couch who was trespassing but not puting the homeowner in danger . Anyone else who wants the correct answer please check oregon law.


Phil September 27, 2009 11:56 am (Pacific time)

Daniel it has nothing to do with a "castle law." I'm sure many of the readers out there recall stories where burglers have been killed when they entered homes (even detached garages) and the homeowner feared for their lives and killed them in Oregon. It boils down to self-defense and one fearing for their or someone elses life, no matter the location. Mike H was correct as per his below post.


Daniel September 26, 2009 8:27 am (Pacific time)

Mike H Oregon does not have a castle law , you cannot shoot someone for simple trespass . There was a case last month giving a southern oregon man 19 months for doing such .Mike you have been corrected .


Mike H. September 24, 2009 2:55 am (Pacific time)

If you shoot someone that is in your home whether they are armed or not and you feared for you life or others lives you won't be charged with a felony. There is no such thing as excessive force when someone enters your home without permission. If I lived in Canada I would shit myself if someone came into my home in the middle of the night and I knew all I had was a knife and they could have a gun, because weapons are easily obtainable on the black market. If you ban guns, criminals are still going to have them. Someone please correct me if I am wrong about the legal issues of killing someone that has entered your home without permission.


Daniel September 23, 2009 11:32 am (Pacific time)

Gregus of course you think the public should take measures , its your business , it what you profit from . California in the 60s spent six times on education than on prisons , nows its about the same . They enacted all the strict incarceration measures you propose and look where it got them . Legalization of small amounts of ALL drugs was just enacted in Mexico , we should do the same along with total legalization of marijuana . The media fans any problems and makes it worse by scaring the crap out of people . I grew up I a tough eastern city , when we had riots in the mid 60s it was bad but the media made it 100x worse . The people from the suburbs were scared to cross into the city limit and it help kill the city . The media , mostly the television news takes a bad situation and makes it worse . I was In Mexico city during the supposed killer flu , the measures they took were weeks late and often totally ineffective . The media overreaction took a very heavy tole on the local vender and businessperson , they are still feeling the effect . The television makes people fearful to walk out of their homes at night . The more we live in a climate of fear the easer it is for the criminals ! The kids are becoming a mess in this country from junk food , lack of exercise , too much computer surfing and television . Greg the largest group on welfare is single white mothers , where are the deadbeat dads , these are the real slackers . When you teach people to protect themselves point out the legal dangers of using excessive or lethal force , your clients may find themselves charged with a felony if they shoot an unarmed bugler .


Gregus September 23, 2009 7:31 am (Pacific time)

DJ I began my long journey in academia in the 1960's and am still on that journey. I find that many people I knew who did post graduate work did not realize that it had no real end for the critical thinkers. My below comment about Thomas Kuhn was meant to deal with the "scientific method" in terms of the need to see that one's hypothesis(es)/ theories could be replicated by others. The argument is that this method allowed mankind to begin advancement outside of prevailing orthodoxies (doctrines) that stifled research/exploration, which was in fact a significant paradigm shift that Thomas Kuhn layed out so well. Somehow you got into political ideology, which reminds me of some students I ran into many years ago who also conversed in a tangential manner on this topic.


Gregus September 22, 2009 9:58 pm (Pacific time)

Daniel my read is that people who are security conscious and take measures to protect themselves are doing the correct thing. There is very violent crime going on out there and most is being committed by our own citizens, but each illegal committing a crime is one too many. Approximately half the illegals are from those who overstayed their visas. As far as money being correlated to educational performance, then look at Washington DC: Only one school district (in Conn.) spends a few dollars more than in DC, and the latter has the poorest performance in the nation. Then in Utah (just one example) spends just a fraction of D.C.'s amount and has one of nations highest performing districts. There are countless variables for sure on why the above is the way it is, but when you distill it down, money plays a minor role in most cases. There are a number of sources that compare the above data in all school districts across the country to see for yourself. Back to preparing for crime, well just like insurance, we want to be prepared just in case. There was a time when someone stole a car they went to JDH or reform school. There are very few sanctions with bite to keep our kids in line and those who end up in prison generally have quite a rap sheet before they get there. The voter wants longer sentences and to build more prisons if needed. Many voice that legalizing drugs is the answer to reduce crime rates and incarceration. This may be true, but society is a long ways from getting to that point, so in the meantime we have to protect ourselves, a very prudent course of action. Have you ever gone and looked up government data on crime? It's not bs.


Mike H. September 22, 2009 7:57 pm (Pacific time)

DJ for Prez.


Anonymous September 22, 2009 6:20 pm (Pacific time)

DJ have you read Thomas Kuhn's Scientific Revolutions? Essentially the "scientific methodolology" (many other terms are also applicable here) rests on the conceptual acceptance of constant paradigm shifts. Works for me, then I have a masters in software engineering from M.I.T., and over 35 years in private business. To be competetive one must live in the future, but the scientific method does provide a framework and that's how we plan and coordinate, plus documenting so others can peer review our work by replicating it. Have you never replicated others work to verify this? That is how we left the dark ages. Experience trumps google everytime.

Yes, I read The Structure of Scientific Revolutions in the 1970s when I was at university. The concept of paradigms, I think, is valid for more than just science. A paradigm is the equivalent of a filter through which we interpret our sensory world. I apply it to our social construction of political realities. Abraham Maslow opined, even before Kuhn, that “It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.” These "hammers" are the paradigms through which we interpret the world. Republicans have a particular hammer and Democrats have another hammer. The mistake both make without ever being aware of it (or if they are, they pretend they aren't), is to assume that all hammers are the same, when they clearly are not. If people of different ideologies could actually understand and accept this, it could be a route back to political civility and even civilization itself.


Daniel September 22, 2009 4:08 pm (Pacific time)

Mike G the good paying industrial and manufacturing jobs are not going to illegals they are going to China . The same is true in Mexico the industrial and manufacturing base is moving to China plus the domestic mexican corn farmer is under cut by USA price supported corn . The unemployed unskilled more north to survive . Mexico is full of wal marts and sams clubs packed with goods from the 3rd world , mostly China . Here in the USA corporations have moved whole factories and the good paying jobs overseas . The problem is not illegals its corrupt bankers and industrialist who have sold out the country ! Education is going down because the money was redirected to incarceration largely for the failed war on drugs . People are becoming more security conscience because the media is scaring the crap out of them . People would do themselves a world of good by turning off there televisions and getting away from all the brainwashing, hype , fear mongering and pure bs .


Mike Gregus September 22, 2009 2:01 pm (Pacific time)

Very few people in this country want some big Global Community togetherness because it would boil down to the hard working Americans (most of us still are) providing a larger chunk of our assets to those who prefer to live off handouts, aka slackers. We also know as more illegals come into the country coupled with the growing domestic public school drop-out rate, crime will continue to go up. We always have had those periods when they report crime going down, just like test scores are improving in the public school system, but we know what will eventually happen to that good news. People are becoming more security conscious and I train numerous individuals and households in security measures. Suprisingly many of them are veterans because the majority of them never really learned very much about defense/offense security. The below brief let's you know what's going on from a macro perspective, and as more terrorists get active expect more of the same: "Firearms, Ammunition See Explosive Sales Growth WSJ ^ | 9/21/09 | Bill Spain While a remarkable surge that began late last year is starting to ease, Americans' demand for firearms and ammunition - driven largely by economic concerns and the fear of new regulations - remains brisk as double-digit sales increases continue to fill the financial coffers of gun and ammo makers alike. In August, the number of background checks performed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Instant Criminal Background Check System was up 12.3% from the same month in 2008 to about 1.1 million."


Copernicus September 22, 2009 1:40 pm (Pacific time)

Anne Throp ask Tim to tell you about his course work..

Tim King: Of course I deleted your comment you little racist jerk.  I noted to Daniel that the very next thing you wrote was a directly inflammatory racist statement about Jewish people.  You are nothing, and your ugly whining rants will never been seen on Salem-News.com.  Indeed, they will be flushed like a big piece of (expletive deleted)

Daniel Johnson: Okay Copernicus, I'll explain the scientific method for you: Biologist Lewis Wolpert: “No one method, no paradigm, will capture the process of science. There is no such thing as the scientific method.” Nobel winning physicist: Percy Bridgeman: “The scientific method, as far as it is a method, is nothing more than doing one’s damnedest with one’s mind, no holds barred.” I think that describes Tim King pretty well. The insults you aim at Tim, describe yourself more closely than they do anyone else. You probably believe there is a "scientific method" as well as a tooth fairy!


Ms. Anne Thrope September 22, 2009 4:54 am (Pacific time)

As a professional journalist, you really ought to know better than to use the term "begs the question" to actually pose a question. I would be happy to offer my copy editing services, as I was the copy editor for my college newspaper for two years.

From the Wikipedia article on Begging the Question (logical fallacy):
"...To beg the question has been used as a synonym for raising the question, or to indicate that the question really ought to be addressed. This usage is commonly followed by a colon and the statement of the question. For example, "This year's budget deficit is half a trillion dollars. This begs the question: how are we ever going to balance the budget?"

Using the term in this way, although common, is considered incorrect. This usage is the result of confusion over the translation of petitio principii, which literally translates as "assuming the starting point"."

Tim King: Got it Anne and I will write that one down and take note for the future.  I appreciate the input.


Mike H. September 22, 2009 1:12 am (Pacific time)

Did my comments regarding murder and what they deserve sort of inspire this article? If so, I really like it! $20,000 to the person who turns them in or provides information leading to the conviction then spending 18 cents to put a .22 round where it belongs. It's sad really, you have a very valid point, that we don't value human life as much as we should. Fortunately, we live in a very calm state. If I remember right it said there were 3 murders in Marion country in 08'...Passing this as a bill though...hard to say if it would work...people would be afraid to turn in someone for $20,000 for fear of their own life.


Daniel September 22, 2009 12:51 am (Pacific time)

Tim the main thing I would worry about with high rewards are vigilantes who are unqualified getting into shoot outs with murders , with the innocent caught in the crossfire . The high rewards also presumes the person wanted is guilty , that may not be the case . If you are talking about an escaped killer thats a different story . If a murder is committed extra money should be dedicated to solving and capturing the victimizer by the people who are getting paid by the taxpayer already , instead of wasting money on minor drug crimes or pot users and growers . You saw what happened in Iraq when people were offered money to turn the enemy in , the finger pointing went in many directions , guilty or not ! If its a gang related killing the finger pointer also has to worry about retribution 20k may not get you out of dodge . The police can not afford to give protection beyond the time they need you , after that you are on your own . Unless the murder is committed by an organized group it is usually solved , its mostly someone close to the victim who kills them . Most of the serial killers go years before getting caught because they blend into the society , mostly middle aged white men , sometimes married with kids . Tim I am troubled you have a person of color on the wanted poster in a mostly white state . I agree we do need to get the priorities of law enforcement in order , lets concentrate on the violent and victimizers of the old and young , not on nonviolent drug users and anything to do with pot .

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