Turkey's Rambo Takes on Israel

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Bruce November 20, 2010 9:33 pm (Pacific time)

To the Editor: It really strikes me how you see the Israeli position as a religious one. The state of Israel as it was founded in 1948 and is run today actually infuriates most of the religious Jews I know. The founders were mostly atheists, and most of the few who were not, were so unconcerned with perpetuation of the Jewish religion that they religiously destroyed entire religious communities (such as the Yemenite and Georgian Jews) by purposely placing them in very small groups throughout the Marxist Collective farms (kibbutzim) all over Israel. They were true leftist Marxists and, as such, enemies of the Jewish religion. This is plain. The # of religious soldiers is minimal because the army there is generally unsympathetic to Jewish religious sensibilities. Yet you make it seem that Israel is killing for the sake of religion. Like the ME struggle is between two warring religious devotees. Now, I understand how you can see Jewish identity as an essentially religious issue, or at least a Biblical one, but there is a major difference between the deaths you attribute to Israel and those you attribute to the (former) Jordanians (you call them Palestinians): Basically no Israeli soldier thinks, "I am doing this for the glory of my G-d!" In other words, the Israeli soldiers who boarded the Turkish ship and ended up killing those activists were acting out of what they saw as a practical consideration. Not as some sort of religious "missionary work". Perhaps this is a small distinction to you, but when I see that it seems that almost all the Arab killing of Jews is religious IN NATURE, I see the matter as a struggle between an intolerant Muslim world and people who are not Muslim trying to make a live for themselves in Israel. I know you see many other issues involved here. Your mind is clear on those issues, and I see many of them differently that you do. But I honestly believe that the same people who did not allow - and WOULD not allow if they had the power - Jews to pray at their own holy places, are the ones who would be happy to kill as many Jews as possible, if it furthered their religious ends - and I mean religious, not political. Jews cannot live in the PA - and would certainly not be allowed to live in a Palestinian state. This is obvious. It would not be tolerated. Yet Israeli Arabs have benefits they would not dream of, had they lived in any Arab state in the region. If not for the suicide bombings from among their ranks - that many of them still glorify openly - they'd be faring much better. How are the Jews in Syria doing?

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Lee November 18, 2010 12:19 pm (Pacific time)

The truth that 'Israel is an Undeclared Terrorist State' is becoming increasingly clearer! Nothwithstanding media propaganda the Zionist Israel is a far greater threat to ME peace than any other nation in the region! Neither Iran nor Syria unabashedly murdered 10 unarmed Turkish Civilian Activists after attacking a supply vessel in International Waters. We will have to reign in the Frankenstein of our own creation before beliggerent Israel eventually sparks WW III as both Russia and China are teeming with much anger behind the scenes.

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Bruce November 17, 2010 11:01 pm (Pacific time)

David, why is it that so many bloody conflicts all over the world are centered around Muslims and their 'rights'? Why? Innocent Jews (to you, an oxymoron, I guess) lived all over the world for the past 2000 years and were persecuted in bloody fashion almost everywhere and for many differing reasons (excuses) - yet they did not take hostages or murder people as a result. Are there wars and insurgencies in any of the countries Jews live in?

I understand your point and know you, as do I, have the right to intellectual honesty. You believe Jews have no right to live as a sovereign people on THAT particular spot of ground. Need I remind you that it is the only spot of ground that basically everyone (but some 'enlightened' Muslim historians) agrees belonged to and was populated by the Jews through the most of the biblical period. Ironic?

But you deflected my comment's point: Josh wrote that that this movie is met by a vicious Israeli response - while the poor Jordanians (you call them Palestinians) are suffering silently.

All I wanted to do was point out that that silence was observed by the Israeli Arabs and Jews who were shot or blown to bits on bus after bus, until they made that wall and beefed up the check-points. I guess you consider to be barbaric ANY measures the Israelis take to trying and deter the bomb-makers and tunnel-smugglers from getting into Israel...well, I do not and neither do many other people.

The refrain heard so often from the Arab side is that "Israel is trying to wipe us out!" - but the Israelis are in a rough spot cuz they have not figured out how to incorporate the Arabs that Jordan and Egypt rejected - and still reject. It's trouble. But spewing hatred and portraying the entire issue as the blame of the Israelis is not the way to get anywhere.

PS. In respect to the murder victims, was Daniel Pearl armed when muslims cut his head off? Were the eight yeshiva boys aged approx 15-21 armed when allahuachbar was yelled and they were shot? Was the 3 year old girl who's head was crushed by the 'freedom-fighter' stupidly released from Israeli prison to get beck dead soldiers' bodies last summer armed? Was she? Were the children and pregnant women riddled with bullets on the roads you were referring to armed? Surely they needed to be, no? Does a person have a 'right' to be killed because they are Jews living in Israel? Apparently yes. You call them "armed illegal Jewish squatters" - I call them people. I don't want Arabs to die. You seem to be so angry that you do not care about JEWS dying, I think. Disqualifying the Israelis by labeling them "aggressors" is a way to whitewash the tragedies on both sides. You do not seem interested in what is good for the Gazans, either. Their real communal tragedy is that they have so much opportunity for prosperity, but squander it. And Hamas wants nothing else but just THAT - Arab poverty in their neck of the woods. It keeps the competition quiet, you know.
But you'd rather fan the flames of a different flame...We ALL need help, indeed.

Editor: I do not speak for Dave, but he is a good friend and I can tell you that you are not painting his character fairly or reasonably.  The only goal with everyone in this movement is peace and any suggestion that the Palestinians have the keys to that peace is not realistic.  In the face of mounting oppression, that is a hard thing to achieve.  So, where does this all lead?  There were Nazi's who were better than others, but so what?  I am not comparing Israel to Nazi's but the point remains; Zionism is pure racism and so is Israel's entire existence as a state based entirely around a religious belief.  It is just like the 'Islamic Republic of Afghanistan' in this regard.  I think it is all terrible, people should be allowed to practice any faith without repercussion.  These religious state arise from the tragedy of oppression.  The Nazi's treated primarily the Jewish people, but also the Gypsy population and a long list of others, horribly.  The mess in Afghanistan is born from Soviet occupation.  Occupation never works out Bruce, people never accept it.  

Salem-News.com has published thousands of articles and hundreds of photos and videos showing the terrible face of Israeli aggression.  Of course the YouTube videos of IDF soldiers killing farmers and ambulance drivers and activists does not show up in Israel for some reason. (we all know what is located in Tel Aviv- Microsoft security for the world, etc.)  I have seen the dead bodies of hundreds and hundreds of Palestinian people in Gaza from Operation 'Cast Lead' (that is such a disgusting name) in these unforgettable images and  I ask you this; where are the images of Israeli victims that justify this carnage?  Hamas stopped suicide bombing in 2005, and renounced their previous deeds the following year.  Why is that never mentioned in western media?  We all know why; Zionists have absolute control of mainstream media.  Ask one of America's longest standing and most respected reporters, Helen Thomas, nothing like being victimized by the truth, that is her story. 

The unguided rocket attacks so constantly discussed by Israel and western press have killed exactly 28 Israeli people, by all accounts since they began in 2001.  So, think about that for a while.  I know there are large numbers of Jewish people in Israel and all over the world who are dialed in on this; opinions mean little, we work from hard evidence.  Our friends are in Palestine and constantly trying to reach Gaza.  I work with wonderful writers and artists in Gaza.. 

The bottom line from Israel, and you I assume Bruce, is that the Palestinians should accept the theft of their land, the construction of walls around all of the occupied territories, the illegal drone strikes that illegally target and kill people in cars (yesterday being the most recent) in crowded populated areas, and try to be 'fair' in the process?  Palestinians have 2% of its former land and Israel has 98% and all of the American killing hardware it can hold.. 

All I know is that Israel needs to be greatly ashamed for so much death and destruction in the name, somehow, of the Bible.  This in itself is sickening; that a religious document is used to justify such behavior toward an indigenous people, or anyone for that matter.  Everything is far too out of balance, frankly I am amazed that the people of Palestine and their supporters are as calm and rational as they are in the face of such terrible treatment from Israel.  As I have said before, if it was the other way around, we would be 100% on the side of Israel, but no thinking person who knows the facts could do that, because that is not how it is.  I am trying to really set this out so you see our perspective Bruce, we want no dead people, no dead Palestinians, no dead Israelis.  The peace movement in Israel is greeted with armed soldiers every Friday in places like Bilin.  It is terrible that violence turned to peaceful demonstration gets the same reaction from Israel 

As a final thought, the world learned a lesson last May when Ken O'Keefe, who Dave and I recently hosted here in the NW, had his ship carrying unarmed peace activists stormed in international waters by Israeli commandos, who killed nine of the activists.  Ken and his friends disarmed three of the Israeli soldiers and tossed or hid the weapons, took the IDF soldiers below, gave them medical treatment, and eventually released them.  All of the talk about Palestine and Gaza activists wanting to hurt or kill Israeli people is for the birds.  Nobody wants that.  I admire Ken and his friends for resisting, standing strong and fighting back with non lethal means.  That takes a lot of guts.  Sadly, Israel has absolutely no interest in peace, only genocide and colonialism.   Inshallah.   

  Hey Dave, Semper Fi Brother.

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David Evans November 17, 2010 12:51 am (Pacific time)

Bruce, It's good that you brought up suicide bombers. You failed to mention Israeli F-1g and U.S.-made Apache helicopter pilots (bombers), and the Israeli tank and artillerymen bombers, and Israeli gunboat bombers. Palestinian suicide bombers haven't blown up anyone since 2006, and Palestinian rockets have killed 27 Israelis since September 2000. The fact is: More innocent Palestinians were killed in the first 5 minutes of Israel's murderous unwarrantted attack on Gaza 2 years ago; and Palestinians have been dying by the dozens since, while only a couple of armed illegal Jewish squatters were shot while travelling on Jewish-only roads in the heart of Palestine, the land that they stole. For the numbers, check this out: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/ Check out the history section also, and note that all violence by Palestinians is subsequent to Israel's initial aggression and continuing illegal expansion onto Palestinian lands.

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Bruce November 13, 2010 8:27 pm (Pacific time)

What severe repercussions have there been from Israel over this film? Any bombs? Any vengeance? Do you understand the power struggle inside Turkey that this film is feeding? Do you understand how it is actually hurting the Muslim world by playing to their lowest, most base element? I don't believe you do. What I find even more interesting is why there have been virtually no vengeance murders by the tens of thousands of Israelis whose parents, grandparents, sisters, brothers, and children were ripped apart by terrorists on buses and gunned down in their cars on the roads of Israel? And they live only a few miles away - and they know who the murderers are, cuz they have parades for their own child-killing children. Instead of calling on every Jewish "man, woman and child to cut off the head of any infidel", it was the Israelis who accepted it with patience, class, and courage. And you write of inequality? We know how many people were killed by these same Jew-haters when a newspaper printed a caricature of their Mohammad. Do you not consider that "repercussions" for freely used speech? How many are killed when a French or Egyptian newspaper prints a Jew with a star of David and a big hook-nose, smiling over bloody money? Answer: None. Nobody dies, because....well, maybe YOU can explain the inequality... To me, you are seeing it quite backwards. The people who this film caters to only believe in their OWN freedom, not in yours or anyone else's. The fact is, Arabs invented hijacking, and perfected suicide-bombing against civilians. If Israel retaliates, a power balance is restored - but people who see things the way you do make sure that the Jews are seen as the aggressors.

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Josh Akers November 13, 2010 2:31 pm (Pacific time)

Interesting, because if you make a movie about the injustice suffered by Jews, you have a box office smash. If you make a movie about the injustice of the Palestinians, you have an new international conflict and severe repercussions from Israel.

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