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Jul-18-2008 13:08printcomments

Immigration Study Released by Coalition for a Working Oregon

"We as a state need a legal workforce and we can only get a solution through federal comprehensive reform. Piece by piece or state by state only makes a solution more difficult and confusing." - Bill Perry, Oregon Restaurant Association

Immigration rights sign
Photo by Tim King

(WILSONVILLE, Ore.) - The Coalition for a Working Oregon released a study on July 9th predicting a considerable loss of economic output if the federal "No-Match" rule is implemented.

Conducted by William Jaeger, Ph. D., Professor in the Department of Agricultural and Resource Economics at Oregon State University, the study details the consequences of the "No-Match" rule, a federal regulation designed to identify undocumented workers in the U.S. Under the "No-Match" rule, if a worker's social security number is questioned by the Department of Homeland Security, he or she must provide proper work authorization by a predetermined date. If the employee cannot provide proper authorization, the employer must release the employee or face penalties.

"In the long-term, the study suggests that we could be looking at a loss of 147,000 jobs, an annual reduction in state output of up to $14.7 billion, a tax loss of $656 million and an overall economic loss of $7.2 billion," says Dr. Jaeger.

The study, entitled Potential Economic Impacts in Oregon of Implementing Proposed Department of Homeland Security "No Match" Immigration Rules, concludes that eliminating undocumented workers will not reduce the number of unemployed in Oregon. (See: Immigration Reform - Business Begins to Find its Voice

Bill Perry, Oregon Restaurant Association's vice president of government affairs, co-chairs the CWO, a coalition consisting of 20 Oregon business associations whose industries employ more than 300,000. Perry says the data found in the study should be helpful to build support for comprehensive reform.

"These workers are an important part of our community and economy," says Perry. "We as a state need a legal workforce and we can only get a solution through federal comprehensive reform. Piece by piece or state by state only makes a solution more difficult and confusing."

For more information on the Coalition for a Working Oregon, visit or call (503) 796-3013.

Source: The Oregon Restaurant Association

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jazz February 22, 2010 12:41 pm (Pacific time)

i think this shouldnt be a problem at all get a life!

Telford July 28, 2008 2:09 pm (Pacific time)

Henry it's unfortuate that many of those countries south of our border are experiencing problems, many of which are caused by such factors as high birthrates (critical one here) and government policies that fail to use good common sense. But we also have our problems here in the states, so maybe it's time to slow all immigration down to a bare minimum so we can get our house in order. As far as congress fixing this problem, well just assuring that the laws on the books are followed will be a good start. Like gun laws, we have enough already. The no-match program will work in Oregon, just like it's working in Arizona where you had the "Chicken Littles" hollering that the sky was falling. Now we see it was just more of the "Cry Wolf" banter from the open-border mob. Seems that the updated drivers license program in Oregon is reducing much criminal fraud , and in time the bugs will be worked out. Also in those states requiring picture ID to vote will probably help to stop a lot of fraud, hopefully. All these above changes will have a positive impact on the American way of life and put us back on track to assuring that all Americans are not subordiante to non-citizens. Population control is going to be a main issue in 20 years or so, and we just cannot allow people to come here just because their home country governments are ineffective, corrupt or whatever. As far as Dr. Jaeger's paper, well his study has already been proven to be flawed as per Arizona, that is empirical Henry. In the fullness of time all these debates will be resolved, and I believe I know how they will turn out.

Henry Ruark July 27, 2008 1:04 pm (Pacific time)

Tel et al: Your line here very familiar, used often since about only defense one can exert for solid expert, solidly engaged. Re support from private interests, whom do you consider as the major forces behind "illegal" pursuits ? Re other-components for study, several other states have already experienced the econmic, cultural and state budget costs of diminution in business and commercial activities when a considerable segment of low-cost work force is withdrawn (read: "driven out" by opposing radical forces.) Sorry file chaos here prevents easy access to those PDFs, et al, but will seek to include here soon. Meanwhile will be seeking any professional reactions to Jaeger study reflecting your charges of simple sell-out of professor's testable integrity which is what is implied here. We know full well from many months of similar attack from other-side of this same issue, but still have seen no real practical workable way to make sure we remedy problem without shooting self right spang in the essential workforce now maing things go in too many states. That solution must come from Congress to avoid simple slop-over state boundary to next one, since 98 percent of immigrants involved have been forced off land, out of jobs, driven from work, by economic debacle in Mexico, and simply have no place there to return-to, thus must only move to next possible survival point in nearest, most accessable other location, if driven from one where they now produce, pay living costs via businesses (grocery, rentals, state/national taxes via payroll deduction, etc.) and thus hurt-social/net when they are driven elsewhere. Yours forces cogitation on real problems, for which I thank you.

Telford July 27, 2008 11:13 am (Pacific time)

Henry it sounds from reading many of your comments that you have had considerable exposure to the scientific method and no doubt realize the most important aspect of this method when used, is that it must be able to allow one to replicate. Of course this is beyond normal peer review in many cases, for example in (below comments)Dr. Jaeger's suppostion, his hypotheses have been pointed out to be seriously flawed (in conjunction with working Arizona model; his peer reviewer stated Jaeger's model could be used in other states). One noteworthy flaw is he did not include economic factors associated with exiting illegal immigrants social costs as a mitigating source in his projections. Many many other variables also have been overlooked by Dr. Jaeger who received his funding from groups that directly benefit from low cost labor. Please note that the provides all data sources that they use (congress uses their stats), so it's easy to see why they are a highly trusted source, i.e. , you can go verify their data!. We are talking both quanitative and qualitative measurements that can be replicated Henry. So when one does not use info that cannot be replicated or easily verified, it becomes very easy to expose these agenda driven organizations, don't you think? Suffice, the MRC is 180 degress from these untrustworthy outfits, in my opinion.

Henry Ruark July 27, 2008 8:49 am (Pacific time)

Tel et al: "Excellence" widely-used source but with certain viewpoint, too, per many studies. Re your link, name announces its honest bias to discredit liberal-side reflection; have used in past, often. Re your phrase on reporter view, their political stance not necessarily "wrong" as you mirror it, since electorate known to make wrong choices, will agree we've made some doozies in last 30 years, I think. Have known leading scientist who was also Republican, which may seem negation in terms but was true;not only one, either, with some in same leading group at conference-covered also Democrats. Fact is fact, testable in various ways, helpful to any dialog dependent on truth. Still subscribe to CJR and AJR, journals of leading two schools; do you see ? Intriguing to folo broad and compelling changes in all forms and levels of democratic communication; we still learning to adapt and adopt. ALL commenteers, as well as reporters, only human, open to share of errors, but honest, open, democratic dialog depends on "wisdom of crowds" concept, on which strength of democracy is based. Then there's the "elite MUST rule" concept, too, followed even yet by many, distrusting the hated "hoi polloi". Annapolis-kid flying off carriers today in CA tour. No word from Ranger, whatever that may mean...

Teleford July 26, 2008 1:16 pm (Pacific time)

Henry thanks for providing me with your sources, but they appear they may need to enlarge their database and/or re-evaluate their data collection methodology. Each week, the Project for Excellence in Journalism evaluates more than 300 political stories in newspapers, magazines and television. For the past six weeks -- from June 9 and July 13 (this last weeks data should be real interesting, and conclusive when available!)-- Obama was a significant part of 77 percent of these stories. Sen. John McCain, on the the hand, was significant in less than half: only 48 percent. The ABC, CBS and NBC morning news shows are dramatically tilting their presidential campaign coverage in favor of the Democrats, a new MRC study has found. The TV morning shows have offered nearly twice as much coverage to the Democrats (55% of all campaign segments) as Republicans (29%), and doled out nearly three times more interview airtime to Democrats than Republicans. Network reporters used a mostly liberal agenda when questioning candidates from both parties. Henry are you familiar with the number of journalists that consider themselves far left of center and what their stated voting patterns have been in presidential elections since 1964? Hint: In only 3 of these elections were their votes for the winning candidate as per an L A Times poll, all other times they voted just the opposite of the majority of the American voter. Let me provide you with an excellent source that is updated daily, and by the way both congressional parties use this source. This link goes to some recent data but you can access the website easily from there: Thanks again for your info Henry, it's just great to share this information, don't you think?

Henry Ruark July 25, 2008 8:01 pm (Pacific time)

Friend Tel et al: Re media coverage, here's Media Matters with its rundown on who's getting covered and how: The Weekly Update from Media Matters for America July 25, 2008 "Even while carrying McCain's water, media worry they aren't doing enough for him. "John McCain complaining about media coverage is a little like an oil company complaining about profit margins: hard to believe, and even harder to feel much sympathy. "This is, after all, a politician who has referred to the press as his "base," and a politician about whom MSNBC's Joe Scarborough has said "every last one of them [reporters] would move to Massachusetts and marry John McCain if they could." "As Eric Alterman and George Zornick recently explained in The Nation, "no candidate since John F. Kennedy, and perhaps none since Franklin Delano Roosevelt, has enjoyed such cozy relations with the press." "But the coziness of that relationship has become increasingly one-sided in recent months, as McCain and his campaign lash out at the media, who then redouble their efforts to please the Arizona senator." ----------- There's plenty more, but you get the picture, from one of the most respected insider sources for media-truth.

Karl July 25, 2008 7:19 pm (Pacific time)

Arizona is my home state and I noticed a poster comparing my state with Oregon. Since Arizona's local law enforcement began enforcing illegal immigration laws and an employer sanctions law went into effect, illegal immigrants have been fleeing the state in large numbers. The effects have been far-ranging. Commuters are reporting fewer vehicles on the freeways, shortening their rush-hour commutes. What had become a serious transportation problem in Arizona is losing its urgency. English Learner Language (ELL) students started dropping out of school. This helped end a confrontation between the state legislature and a federal judge who had ordered the state to spend more money on ELL classes. Fewer illegal immigrants are using hospital emergency rooms, so waiting times have decreased. Although the rest of the country is in an economic slump, unemployment is going down in Arizona, from 4.5% in January to 4.1% in March. Day laborers loitering outside of Home Depot and other stores have mostly disappeared, ending months of confrontation between illegal immigrant sympathizers and protesters. Desert lands near the border are returning to their pristine condition and the wildlife is coming back. Identity theft and car thefts are decreasing. No one showed up on May 1 to march in immigrant rallies. With illegal immigrants leaving, the state will see huge savings as fewer illegal immigrants use social welfare programs and the cost of arresting, prosecuting, incarcerating and deporting them decreases. Arizona is facing one of the worst budget deficits ever, looming as high as $2 billion in 2009, but the situation may resolve itself. Good luck Oregon.

Henry Ruark July 25, 2008 4:35 pm (Pacific time)

Tel et al: Your keyphrase refers to hypothesis as "unproven". SO here's definition to keep us all straight: hypothesis (as in "proposal") n. : a proposal intended to explain certain facts or observations. For me that clearly gives ssolid "surround" to Jaeger study. To disprove any such hypothesis requires facts from the real world, as you indicate without supplying any...leaving us to equate you as source with Jaeger as source. You ain't gonna win many new conversions that way... SO if you have sources, set 'em out here for all to see, and check themselves via "own mind". You are familiar with that pattern, and I look forward to further dialog when you see fit to follow it. Sidenote: If all goes well, I get to ride Lifeflight heli with son Loren soon, and have been promised ride in pilot seat "But DON'T TOUCH !" Wish I could include you, so we might continue dialog.

Telford July 25, 2008 1:10 pm (Pacific time)

Henry it would "not" be prudent to go along (blindly) with unproven hypotheses when you actually have real world no-match policies, that have been in effect, e.g. in Arizona, that disproves ("shatters" would be more accurate) Dr. Jaegers hypotheses. Oregon is certainly different than Arizona, it has a much "smaller" illegal population, so using Arizona as a real world model compared to Dr. Jaegers imaginary Oregon model, well I prefer reality over fantasy Henry. Say you must be proud to have a "Ranger" in the family. They are some of my most favorite people, will keep positive thoughts for your Ranger.

Henry Ruark July 25, 2008 10:56 am (Pacific time)

Brit. et al: Yours too distorted for any simple remediation here, so suggest you ID-self with Tim for dialog direct, in fully-due deference to others here. Some of what you write is simply misinformed; some here challenges Constitutional provisions; some equates rare "liberal" judge-actions with applications not possible under the Constitution, for very good reasons set forth in detail by Founders in the classic Federalist Papers --which I assume you have NOY either read or studied, since if you had you would not have written as publicized here. Your links appreciated, and views there need study and consideration; but do not confuse those you show as by any means non-partisan nor non-political, seeking only wise and equitable decision on very complex situation. All must take them for what they really are, as with any we suggest, too... that's what "see with own eyes" is meant to bring on, for those who are capable of doing so. No question we suffer from large influx; but over-simple easy-do will never solve that, and some actions proposed are already demonstratin very adverse and damaging perhaps "unforeseen consequences". OR are they intended as also damaging invasions of our Constitutional princles, set up by political forces facing sure defeat and denial by many thinking citizens in the nation now ? SO welcome your approach for dialog-direct; and your participation richly appreciated. Without that, must conclude you seek only to damage open, honest democratic dialog here.

Brittanicus July 24, 2008 7:23 pm (Pacific time)

Oregon or any others state are suffering from the illegal alien invasion. However when Arizona enacted some harsh immigration laws, things transformed for the better. Both Obama and McCain should understand the dire financial consequences, of leaving the AMNESTY door wide open. Instead of appeasing the pro-illegal immigration entities, along with the big business cartels, the church, and the special interest lobby, may be they should take it under advisement who pays for the low wage illegal foreign nationals, when they need medical care. Who has been forced by misinterpretation of our laws by liberal judges, that we must educate the children of illegal aliens, and the automatic citizenship of whatever child is born here? Who pays for the welfare, the prisons and hundreds of hidden underground programs that citizens and legal residence are unaware of ...TAXPAYERS! Some eye-opening, disturbing evidence that the national media won't tell you. ( ) Read about costs the US government keeps under wraps. This doesn't include education, free health care or prison services and much more not listed. Find that disturbing report here ( Read about one committees free health care research. ( ) Then go here to fight back: We must demand the Federal SAVE ACT (H.R.4088) that Democrats refuse to give us. NUMBERSUSA for unsuppressed facts!

Henry Ruark July 24, 2008 2:26 pm (Pacific time)

Tel et al: Yours re Dr. J's essential "hypotheses" reflects UNtrust in his methods as trained, skilled, and extremely well-informed --unless I misread your standard use of surrounding quotes. As you should know, any such study begins with statement of precisely those dimensions, then compares what data tells via analysis with the starting points defined. That's demanded by the scientific method on which all comparable analyses must be based for credibility. IF you wish to attack his hypotheses, that requires close contact with the study itself; have you been so privileged, other than to deduce same from published summary ? UNless so, some of your continued misunderstandings may arise right there. OR do you simply wish to make case without the hard work demanded to prove up same attack-mode, often next-step to stronger analyses ? IF choice comes down to his study and what you have so far published here --basically your own feelings, unsupported otherwise-- we have little choice but to go with the Jaeger analysis. DO appreciate participation but fact is fact, and that's obvious status on this thread. IF you have offsetting and factual additional analysis, state or source it, for close comparison and contrast right out here in the public eye. GO, Tel, Go !! AND best wishes for your sons serving the nation --you can be proud and we all should be appreciative, too.

I agree on No-Match July 24, 2008 12:47 pm (Pacific time)

From my perspective on this issue---when one cannot lawfully earn income they move on to a place that they can. My guess is all of these sanctuary cities around the country will be getting quite crowded, until the voting population elects new leaders. This will evolve into a self-deportion scenario or it will become a civil war. My guess it will be the former, because the latter has already happened and no rational person wants to seek their own demise. We must enforce our laws regardless of the problems that may happen, otherwise why have any laws. Americans want their children to be safe.

Henry Ruark July 24, 2008 10:07 am (Pacific time)

Tel et al: Here's "see with own eyes" view re rapid-departure plan-now for difficult problem of immigration-law failure: Another View: Just round up immigrants? Then take out your wallet The Des Moines Register, Iowa, July 12, 2008 "Anyone who thinks the U.S. government can just "round up" undocumented immigrants and "send them home" should take a look at what has happened in Postville. In May, federal agents stormed Agriprocessors Inc., a meatpacking plant. A total of 389 immigrant workers were detained. "And they weren't immediately sent back to their native countries. "More than 300 are now serving sentences — which is costing taxpayers about $65 per day per inmate, or about $590,000 per month. "Some of the workers were charged with crimes including using false Social Security numbers and documentation to work. Some of them may be needed as witnesses as the government determines whether more plant officials will be charged. "But the case underscores the sheer absurdity of "rounding up" millions of people and deporting them. It's not that simple." ------------ Precisely-so; nor can states solve by own actions, since many of the difficulties now require wise concurrent action at national level to be at all effective and Constitutionally legal.

Telford July 24, 2008 8:28 am (Pacific time)

Henry I certainly agree with you about past immigrants from all those different locations. As you are aware these earlier immigrants worked very hard and helped make America what it is today. They also quickly absorped into American life by learning english and sharing in American values and mores. Is this happening now with the majority of illegal aliens and other lawfull immigrants? Dr. Jaeger's "hypothses" will be seen for what they are in due time as will the "No-match" policy. We only have so many resources available to us here in America, and the need to protect those resources will become very powerful in the not too distant future, especially as we see more and more jobs being lost, mainly because of the current energy situation. To be a country we must assure our sovereignty, and securing our border and enforcing our immigration laws is primary.

Henry Ruark July 23, 2008 9:09 pm (Pacific time)

Friend Tel et al: Yours re buried prognosis parallels mine re Reagan, in early '80s, in many channels, now proven about on target in many ways. Re reaction you mention, several other states directly opposite to yours; will dig up "see with own eyes" when can find time. Economic impacts yet-to-come in most places, and experience shows it will be negative for effects sought and negative in direct consequences; the experience mentioned covers every flood of newcomers from the original Pilgrims on through Irish, Italians, Jews,Germans, Poles, Slavs, Scandinavians and many others, is historical record-report in my files, now in chaos during disposal of most. That mirrors most diverse mix in history, one of major strengths of American way, and worth deep consideration prior to any abandonment.

Telford July 23, 2008 1:12 pm (Pacific time)

Actually Henry this prediction by Dr. Jaeger is based on a worst case scenario. I believe there are also other predictions dealing with this scenario, maybe I can locate one? As time goes by we shall see how accurate his study and extrapolations become. My guess, we will know very soon and I think I know the answer, but shall let the future provide it. I may put my prediction written out and place it into a time capsule, bury it somewhere on the 45th parallel, and have it opened in say around ten years. Hopefully the snow and ice will not be so deep in July of 2018 so we can dig it up in a timely way. Please note that in Arizona this "No-Match" has been going on for a while and no serious economic problems have developed. In fact the state's Chamber of Commerce collective (who were against it!) have stated that they were happy with the results thus far. It appears that the illegals are leaving the state, as was the intention of this policy. Interesting, no?

Henry Ruark July 23, 2008 7:40 am (Pacific time)

L.S. et al: SO, given such "mercenary" professors, what's YOUR mercenary occupation, trained by them ? OR have you had that opportunity ? As consultant in Chicago for 12 years, world's toughest such market, know full well one does not become mercenary simply by merchandising skills in research and from special learnings. That's known as "survival" via what you can manage with what you've learned. ANYone with degree does same thing: merchandise what was learned. Fact of doing it via job changes no fundamental part of the equation here. Then there's professional reputation at stake, too, very publicly. IF you "sell out", while professor-at-work with your students, your colleagues know it, and you will soon find your market shot-to-hell since all will learn what you offer to buyers is your professional integrity. Does NOT pay, as you seem not to have learned, often costing prof the job and at same time killing any further professional opportunities to consult. SO demands skill in doing what one is paid to do, as well as teach...long part of academic career for those who have what is needed for that very difficult occupation. Yet you offer smear-language publicly, on record, right here for all to see... While hiding behind only partial-name --while professor proudly published his professional work, signed with byline. (Note spelling: "by", NOT "buy" !) SO what are you selling ? Should we fire all professors who consult for the great advantages that can be for innovation, enterprise, and advances-generally, generating good jobs and more chances for social justice, too ??

Telford July 23, 2008 7:22 am (Pacific time)

Henry there was a time, many years ago, I shared a similar viewpoint as you regarding the NY Times. I now see it as nothing more than a "press secretary" for positions and candidates I do not agree with. No negative judgement on those who feel different, especially my wife (but she is now starting to question their editorial policy as per the lasted flap over a recent denied opinion piece), it's just my private assessment which is also held by many. As you know most large newspapers (and syndicates), as well as major television network news programs are losing subscibers and viewers. There are many expressed opinions why this is happening. My view is that more people are seeing the bias and opting for other sources. So what are those organizations that are prospering? The American citizen is a smart cookie, and you should not try to pull one over on them. Bottom line we all have different perspectives and will seek out those who share similar viewpoints. The NY Times no longer meets my demanding requirements.

lance sjogren July 22, 2008 5:52 pm (Pacific time)

How sweet that some mercenary professor at my alma mater is taking money from the Sweatshop Lobby.

lance sjogren July 22, 2008 5:50 pm (Pacific time)

Wow, Oregon is a big enough economy now to have its very own Sweatshop Lobby, in the form of Coalition for a Working Oregon. Oregon has really hit the bigtime. Perhaps not in the most honorable way, however.

Henry Ruark July 21, 2008 8:07 pm (Pacific time)

Friend Tel et al: Despite aberrations found in others, too, for somewhat the same reasons, the NYTimes remains worldwide recognized as among the great newspapers. Its Editorials remain not only reliable but are more widely referenced and quoted than any other daily. Surely the Edit I excerpted states unequivocable fact. At some risk to our developing reltionship, I'll even venture to suggest you check with your Gracie ! My BCR was history fiend, right down to quoting Founder statements, as well as sharp critic on writing, from which I still both suffer and profit, depending on her last impacts. At the Times, still family-owned and critically controlled, faults far diminish in serious relation to their serious coverage from sources literally unmatched by others, including the wire services. Unfortunately, my break-in employer, UPI, has descended the scale considerably now being under control of Myung Ming, of Washington Times notoriety. In the '40s, when I slipped under their wire in Boston, they were paramount even over AP, then looked upon as too corporate-distorted because of its cooperative structure. But facts are facts, and remain checkable and verifiable, as per those stated in the Times Edit. The problems here are surely national in impact, and the solutions, when Congress ever decides to act, must also be national not only in origin but in coverage and contemporaneous application. Until and unless that takes place, we will continue to suffer from the inescapable maladies we've been discussing here.

Telford July 21, 2008 12:48 pm (Pacific time)

Henry, long ago I discontinued using the New York Times as a news source. I do their crossword puzzle, but that's the end of my association with them. My wife on the other hand does use them as a news source for many of her observations on national affairs which pleases me to no end during our friendly debates. I guess she just likes being misinformed, but otherwise she's a great gal. Remember Gracie of Burns and Allen? I'm married to a "Gracie", and it's really a lot of fun!

Henry Ruark July 21, 2008 10:26 am (Pacific time)

Tel et al: Here's "see with own eyes" edit statement from NYTimes: July 21, 2008 Editorial Pushing Back on Immigration "There is nothing good about the country’s ever more merciless campaign of immigration enforcement. But at least there are emerging signs of resistance, from one of the most important, yet curiously disengaged, players in the debate: employers. "States and cities complain about the broken immigration system, but they can’t create the intricate web of policies needed to fix it — that’s up to Congress. All they can do is try to crack down locally on illegal immigrants and the businesses that hire them. The result has been haphazard enforcement without reform, which only makes the problem worse." (Lead as excerpt; see rest at NYT website for detail.} (Believe you will agree that NYT probably somewhat better informed than either of us. We are surely not in access to their manifold sources for sure factual checkabilities, and can only mirror here what we find from similar sources, adding whatever we then believe true.)

Henry Ruark July 21, 2008 10:10 am (Pacific time)

Friend Tel et al: Miss your working link so could not check out actuality you cite. BUT do happen to have some 20 or so clips from other states, perhaps this one, too since did not check all yet, that show determined movement to install at state level precisely the opposite actions so lauded here. Most all seek local or state denial of corporate personhood as root cause for campaign contributions viewed as major source for influence involved in this part of big picture. Will share PDFs with you on ID to Tim for direct, as have offered before for other like matters. But not for long, since now clearing out 50 yrs. of writer files in preparation for next venture, whatever it may be... with doubful use of any such files as sure-thing !!

Telford July 21, 2008 8:50 am (Pacific time)

Just came across this article, wonder what it portends for other state mayor' policies and even this upcoming election? Henry you have a guess? HAZLETON, Pa. (AP) _ The mayor of Hazleton, Pa., who drew nationwide attention for his crackdown on illegal immigration, has been named the state's Mayor of the Year. Pennsylvania State Mayors Association gave Lou Barletta the honor Saturday. Group officials cited his illegal immigrant crackdown and his hands-on method of combating crime. (Excerpt) Read more at ...

Henry Ruark July 20, 2008 12:46 pm (Pacific time)

Friend Telford et al: On nearly all your points, no disagreement...ours only on how to get the job done, long neglected from all sides, while still honoring embedded Constitutional principles for all here and due that regard. Re jobless rate, do believe it is much higher in reality and should include some millions who have simply given up, hanging on any way they can, sometimes via questionable activities. Re "bad form", that's always stupid-action, even when done by careless or irresponsible editor/or/journalist as well as by others. Re clean-slate, new-start, how-proceed, still intently feel we must impeach and deny further precedent for deeply damaging prior actions; and include in remediation every possible way we can impose same clean up on Congress,as well as both true-and-pretend pundits; and ALL complicit cooperators in actions which got us to this absolutely devastating current situation. But first cometh clean-up and clear-out at comprehensive levels, in D.C., state capitols and throughout the msmedia, chiefly responsible (in my view, at least) for ever allowing competent citizens who can read English to get to devastating depths of misunderstanding and policy manipulative reaction which clearly undermines what we had done for two centuries, via prescient means left us by our Founders.

Telford July 20, 2008 11:55 am (Pacific time)

Requiring all employers to verify/match social security numbers (or employment ID numbers) is benefical in so many ways. We make sure all taxes are being collected from/for the right person, we minimize idenity fraud, catch criminals, identify those who owe child support, and of course we make sure someone is authorized to work, etc. . I see Oregon is requiring formal identification for one to get a driver's license and I heard you have a vote by mail and people register to vote while getting their licences, so this should reduce voter fraud. As many of you know, picture ID is being required in more states to be able to vote. So all these programs to verify that a person is who they say they are is a good thing. Henry I am not challenging Dr. Jaegers methodology (though I have not seen his research design), I just disagree with his conclusions. Which is my opinion. When a job is available, and the pay is fair for what that job entails, generally you will find people to fill it. We have an approximate 5.5% unemployment rate (actually that's historically low), so there are people out there who need work. As far as border fences, well, we need security, and if the border cannot be controlled, which it hasn't been, then having a system to ID people is the way to go. We are running out of room in America, and with projected birthrates, we will be in a real mess in the not too distant future, in my opinion. Henry I don't believe all those people who want to control the border are zealots, for example, I belong to the American Legion, and our national policy is to enforce the border and all immigration laws. So it would be bad form to call millions of veterans of all races/ethnic backgrounds and different political ideologies zealots, would you not agree?

Henry Ruark July 20, 2008 9:18 am (Pacific time)

To all: For proof of mine re failure of border fence, here's Tim's report on Woodburn metal theft, with example: "Railroads are in danger, other bridges could fall victim to metal thieves, and there is what I consider to be the laughingstock of all meth metal thief stories: in Arizona where Republicans and anti-immigration zealots have "the Great Wall of America" under construction to allegedly cut down in "illegal immigration" traffic from Mexico, off-duty deputies are being called in to babysit the wall; both the installed and the uninstalled fence sections. Why? Because faster than you can spell Border Patrol, those fence sections are being carried away by meth thieves and sold for scrap!" Nothing like "see with own eyes" proof right from same issue of S-N !!

Henry Ruark July 20, 2008 9:11 am (Pacific time)

Tel, N. et al: This is a free country, and your Op Ed with solid sources for what you claim is welcome here. Until, unless you provide that, believe most rational, reasonable readers will prefer the professional reputation on the line with this study from an experienced investigator with sources far beyond those available to most of us; who surely is not open for scare purchase --a claim that smears his integrity without a scad of proof. Other states, some rushing earlier to enact scathing anti-"illegal" laws, now find themselves caught in wringer of consequences, per several previous Op Eds...will cite Op Ed dates, and documentation from other sources re states now renigging, for anyone seeking via request to Tim with ID. B/b feeling fine for a starting point, but wise decisions in full commonweal interest requires solid source researched study --as provided by Dr. Jaeger and report right here. Where's your solid-source Op Ed, Tel ? YOU can write it straight as you feel, then support with source links. We need allagood dialog we can get, with checkable fact as foundation. So why do you wait ? Train is already leaving the station on this one --Congress will be forced to act sometime soon for solid economic security for all involved, including strong new Hispanic source for many good workers --some here already and others to come legally. What we've already wasted on silly ineffective "border fence" better used wisely to offset economic consequences already highly visible due to past erroneous failed policies which demand ration and reason for remediation.

Telford July 19, 2008 12:39 pm (Pacific time)

This is scare tactics. Any job, if properly compensated, would get filled right away. Many Americans need jobs. There is ample evidence all around the country that when illegals have been removed from their jobs, for example in the meatpacking industry, there were long lines of people trying to fill those positions.

nicki July 18, 2008 8:21 pm (Pacific time)

All we have to do is take the American People of welfare and give them a job. Take all the people off the streets and clean them up and put them to work. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. Stop making excuses for the Illegals to stay here. People are not against Immigration, they are against ILLEGAL ALIENS. There is a different.

Funny Truth July 18, 2008 4:25 pm (Pacific time)

NOW THAT THE NUMBERS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES, WHATS OREGON GOING TO DO? They deserve to lose this money . anyone that takes bread form a human their bread will be taken form them sooner or later, always remember, WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND. I AM NOT SAYING DON'T CONTROL THE BORDERS. I AM SAYING STOP THE HATE. "In the long-term, the study suggests that we could be looking at a loss of 147,000 jobs, an annual reduction in state output of up to $14.7 billion, a tax loss of $656 million and an overall economic loss of $7.2 billion," says Dr. Jaeger.

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Sean Flynn was a photojournalist in Vietnam, taken captive in 1970 in Cambodia and never seen again.

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