Op Ed: 'Starve the Beast'
Far-Right Tactic
Seeks Obama Failure

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Henry Ruark February 11, 2009 7:45 am (Pacific time)

"Ånon": "You lie in your teeth, sir". That's title of an Op Ed done some years ago re copyright, but used here since it describes yours well, too. IF you dare come out from behind tree, reveal self with any degree of truth, then list ten states you mention AND the ten others you claim. NO reputable news channel has in years (since Civil War !) ever run any such information; so await your detailed answer for top scoring national story here if and when you "tell the truth" as you claim publicly here. Nothing more disgusting than a liar, except one attempting same thing publicly...

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Henry Ruark February 10, 2009 2:27 pm (Pacific time)

JW: Nothing basically wrong with idealism, but works much more effectively when sprinkled liberally (forgive the word !) with commonsense, sometimes termed pragmatism. DEElight to pursue further if and when you ID-self to Editor for exchange sure to help us both --first to understand the other, then to pass along any learning via wiser exchanges here...already working with a few others.

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Anonymous February 10, 2009 2:08 pm (Pacific time)

I just read Geithners new plan. Giving all the money to the banks again. hmmm. Remember this sentence: the federal reserve bank is not federal, it is a private bank and owned by offshore foreign bankers. ie: rothchild/rockefeller. No wonder 10 states are asking for secession from the federal government, with 10 more about to. This could reach 20-25 states wanting to break away from the federal government. another hmmmm.

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fed res February 10, 2009 11:15 am (Pacific time)

It would behoove you to accept the truth before making decisions that will effect so many people: the truth, for those that want to see it. http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2009/cbarchive_20090210.html

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JW February 10, 2009 8:52 am (Pacific time)

Viv, you posted: "I do know that in Mexico and Latin America, he is hailed as a champion for the people, and a symbol of freedom. Like Abraham Lincoln, history and time may have been kind to him and forgiven his inhumanity." If you think about this for a while re: Che', it is about mythmaking. A significant percentage of hispanics in Central and South America are poorly educated, but as you know most are very religious and predominately Catholic. Che' was a godless brutal murderer, so if people were updated about him I doubt many would "forgive his inhumanity," in my opinion. Of course I have not seen any professionally designed surveys on this matter. Henry on occasion I find myself thinking in an idealistic manner, but no doubt we have a different take. For you readers not familiar, the father of "idealism" was Plato and he opined that we more or less get out of the dark by going toward the light, which can be a very practical thing to do. Next lesson: realism, pragmatism, existentialism...

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Henry Ruark February 9, 2009 8:15 pm (Pacific time)

To all: idealist (as in "visionary") n. : someone guided more by ideals than by practical considerations." WHY would anyone so signify self ??? Amazed, amused, and appreciative -- I think...

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Henry Ruark February 9, 2009 6:37 pm (Pacific time)

Friend Chris: DID ck out yr "see with own eyes" not only for source but for content. Discovered wellknown to me from previous similar encounters; for me, need go no deeper than "libertarian" as declared there. You are of course free to believe as you feel right (or Right ?). Re debt collateral, understood it was basically Treasury status based on trust, since tons of gold-held/once now long gone --but unsure. Dunno for sure solid answer but will check and report. Why don't you seek same from sources you choose ? That way we both learn when we share, since sure to be contrasting answers to some extent and detail.

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Vic February 9, 2009 5:46 pm (Pacific time)

Henry, re Che..you are probably correct as far as the myth growing larger and more benevolent than the man. I agree that it is funny how an anti-capitalist ended up being a Bettie Page of sorts for the T-shirt industry. I suapect that half the Che shirt-wearing American teens prob think he was one of the Beatles or Charles Manson...kinda like the millions who wear shirts with the anarchy symbol on it and couldnt give an accurate definition of what it means if you held a shotgun on them. I do know that in Mexico and Latin America, he is hailed as a champion for the people, and a symbol of freedom. Like Abraham Lincoln, history and time may have been kind to him and forgiven his inhumanity.

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Idealist February 9, 2009 1:59 pm (Pacific time)

I think assessing Ruark as a modern day Che' is a close approximation, except for the influence part.

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Henry Lopez February 9, 2009 1:09 pm (Pacific time)

VIC: You may not even know who Che Guevara really was, but you’ve probably seen his face on a t-shirt. He’s that ragged, bearded guy with a faraway look in his eyes and a beret on his head. More than likely you’ve seen that t-shirt on a college campus or in a European or Latin American gift shop. It’s the ultimate irony because Guevara was a consummate anti-capitalist. There’s a bit of poetic justice when a man who indiscriminately killed others in order to impose a system devoid of capitalism is now the world’s greatest t-shirt salesman. Despite the considerable mythology built up around his image, the real Guevara was a bumbler who never accomplished anything except as Fidel Castro’s wing man and executioner during the Cuban insurrection of the late 50s. Even there, the Castro propaganda machine embellished his greatest “victory.” Guevara’s lackluster record began as a young man when he enrolled in medical school. Historians can find no concrete evidence of him ever obtaining a degree and he certainly never practiced medicine. One of Guevara’s fellow rebels who fought alongside him told me Guevara only had a cursory knowledge of medicine. When Castro came to power in 1959, Guevara made a fool of himself as Cuba’s “economics minister.” Later, Guevara failed dismally in his attempts to launch insurrections in the Congo and Bolivia, where he ultimately met his demise in 1967. Guevara was also, by all accounts, a lousy husband and father, but he was mainly a cold-blooded killer.

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Henry Ruark February 9, 2009 12:19 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Dialog re sources, books, ID of documentation, et al, et al, here over many months strongly points up precisely the points-made on essential reason for by-line and all other such source-identity. It is brutal fact today that many malign sources on I-Net use it for private and special group purposes,with purposeful distortion, perversion, and flat-out lie as working tools. One simply cannot evaluate any response until some basic feel and/or sense-of-source via msg and all other factors one can get is put to good use. THAT is inescapable part of mental processes required. Threads here continue to show massive misunderstandings brought on either by intent or by lack of essential shaping information even when sought. "Confidential" ID to Editor surely covers any possible fear or form of retaliation; when refused, it is thus prima facie evidence for some suspicion of motive and note itself. THAT is first basic propaganda-research finding long utilized by all agencies. Do NOT hesitate on honest, ethical, open, sharing ID of self as "businessman", "teacher","economist","worker" or whatever is true and ready for further learning/shaping disclosure: It strengthens, solidifies, identifies, aids full purpose here of honest, open, ethical, democratic sharing/learning, from which we all suffer when distorted and perverted as in most other channels today. Can we as Americans return to that level-and-kind of dialog demonstrated in value by our Founders ? We will see in next few months with consequences following over years,decades, and into 21st Century-total.

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ChrisJones February 9, 2009 12:12 pm (Pacific time)

Henry: Another question that plagues me, maybe you know the answer to henry...what kind of assets are the collateral on the national debt?

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Henry Ruark February 9, 2009 11:56 am (Pacific time)

To all: Happens that in discarding huge pileup of old files and working materials here, I am also listing for transfer to library of choice a large number of favorite-reference sources. Most are either classic or current, some both. For anyone seeking ID on the 500-top mentioned previously, that library-list is available in easy-copy form; I made a PDF of it for documentation. Simply ID-self to Editor with full name, st. address, email, occupation or retired-from, for addition of any extras to make most meaningful for YOU. THAT much I can and will do, on receipt of proper full-ID demonstrating good faith and honest intent. I pledge no other use for ID, naturally...

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ChrisJones February 9, 2009 11:45 am (Pacific time)

Please at least read my "see with own eyes" henry. You have to admit that even lord keynes while he was alive never meant for, or (correctly) thought he would have had to deal with a 10-20 trillion dollar national debt. When do you think we will be able to start making payments against the principle of that loan, rather than just making the interest payments only? Or do people of advanced age even care about such subjects? Or people of any age? Similar to bush's philosophy when asked how he thinks history will look back on him...Answer "I don't care, I'll be dead.

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Henry Ruark February 9, 2009 8:34 am (Pacific time)

Chris: IF we are to become booklist for competing economic-school theories, why do we not simply list sources and titles, thus allowing faster-choice and freeing up all concerned to send money and retain full comfort via any lack of cogitation ? Sure beats spending nickel here on shared-dialog and then, perhaps, indulging in some small degree of cogitation personally produced however painfully. Think what that could have done for Founders, given the overwhelming British-lists of the time ! We could thus have avoided entirely The Federalist Papers and all they produced since, including the Constitution and Bill of Rights. THAT surely would have altered the entire historic sequence through which we've fought --as in the American Revolution-- ever since. Also consider how wonderfully dollar-efficient that would be, too, over costs-here, most borne by Editor Tim, even though it then allows heavy political/corporate/special interest advantage since they have the dollars and we don't have any competing cash-flow. That plays comfortably right into the shill-impacts we've reported here now for some time, too, which might be pleasing for some paying that toll. IF that's choice of readers here, we can probably best serve simply by listing all the choices via address, as for Mise Institute in yours, just to start. Nobody questions their right to existence, only the Rightness of their declared concerns. IF people prefer their brand of elector control they are easy to find without our assistance -all you need is label "libertarian" on Google, just demonstrated. On the other hand, we may well decide simply to continue to offer open, honest, ethical and democratic dialog, with some rational control on those who choose ONLY to politically pander rather than to indulge in some degree of cogitation themselves and share results with others here. Yours may well give management some simplifying next-steps to continue our honest efforts here despite determined sabotage by those seeking to gain by that action. To Editor Tim: IF you wish to consider this simple(minded) way to reduce patience-demands and dollar-costs, let me know: I have list of some 500 ready references right here in the office, to start !!! Naturally YOU are free to choose which to use and which to refuse ...on simple commonsense basis of how we set up this channel when initiated.

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Vic February 9, 2009 7:44 am (Pacific time)

"Henry "Che" Ruark....I love it ! I'd take it as a badge of honor to be 91 and be called a modern day Che Guevara!

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ChrisJones February 9, 2009 2:05 am (Pacific time)

To all: I hear alot of people quote the 700 billion number when refering to the bank bailout of last year, it is actually much more than that and now they want another couple trillion more for the banks after this current spending package is passed this week please "see with eyes" from bloomberg.com----U.S. Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes --By Mark Pittman and Bob Ivry Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- The stimulus package the U.S. Congress is completing would raise the government’s commitment to solving the financial crisis to $9.7 trillion, enough to pay off more than 90 percent of the nation’s home mortgages. The Federal Reserve, Treasury Department and Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation have lent or spent almost $3 trillion over the past two years and pledged to provide up to $5.7 trillion more if needed. The total already tapped has decreased about 1 percent since November, mostly because foreign central banks are using fewer dollars in currency-exchange agreements called swaps. The Senate is to vote early this week on a stimulus package totaling at least $780 billion that President Barack Obama says is needed to avert a deeper recession. That measure would need to be reconciled with an $819 billion plan the House approved last month. Only the stimulus package to be approved this week, the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program passed four months ago and $168 billion in tax cuts and rebates approved in 2008 have been voted on by lawmakers. The remaining $8 trillion in commitments are lending programs and guarantees, almost all under the authority of the Fed and the FDIC. The recipients’ names have not been disclosed...cont'd @ http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087andsid=aGq2B3XeGKokandrefer=home

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ChrisJones February 8, 2009 8:16 pm (Pacific time)

I'm with Rothbard when he said "The best college is a book" This looks like a good one to understand the austrian view on this long foreseen calamity IN PLAIN ENGLISH--Meltdown- by thomas e. woods jr, a senior fellow at the Ludwig von Mises Institute and winner of the 2006 Templeton Enterprise Award, "see w/ eyes"---Why the heck is this happening to us? What happened to mortgages, to banks, to large retailers, to retirement savings, to stock prices, to the availability of credit? How could so many errors have coincided? To the media pundits and government officials, this is a market failing that requires the government to take trillions of dollars from you and run the money presses full time. Otherwise we are doomed. But there is another way to look at the great market collapse of 2008: the whole thing, including the bubble that preceded it, is the fault of the government and the Fed. All attempts to "fix" the problem are like forcing the patient to swallow more of the poison from which he currently suffers. Mises.org has been making this argument, and warned of the coming crash years ago. But where can you find the argument explained for the average person in a convenient package, without technical jargon and with logic and facts? Enter Tom Woods with his blockbuster book Meltdown. It's all here, all the information you need to understand what is happening and what to do about it. It is billed as a free-market response to the crisis but it is more precisely an Austrian School response...cont'd @ http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods-meltdown.html

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Henry Ruark February 8, 2009 8:08 pm (Pacific time)

CHRIS: You wrote:"Feel free to provide any facts or links if you wish, if you get tired of making vicious personal attacks against any dissenters to your unpopular views." Pointing up realities and flaws/errors in responses is not "vicious personal attack", albeit some may be made a bit uncomfortable by plain English statements. S-N has operated on "see with own eyes" and "evaluate with own mind" from its initiation. Do NOT see overwhelming use of links from YOU. Re "shill", see def. supplied, examples, note re national attacks on other channels by both paid and volunteers. Re "unpopular", not running for office, nor seeking to sell "solutions", nor to impose libertarian point of view --or ANT other, either; only to report openly, honestly, democratically, with supporting documentation. You pays your nickel here by choice; if product makes you uncomfortable enough to fight back, we're doing our job, since by that very action you prove up necessity for your own response, which reflects cogitation OR simple reflex from your automatic response if mind already manipulated --with possibility latter might slip and allow you honest, open response.

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ChrisJones February 8, 2009 7:47 pm (Pacific time)

To all: this is a very good article by gary north with concise background info on this crisis and points the finger rightfully at the federal reserve and the fractional reserve banking fraud "see with own eyes" Economic Fascism and the Bailout Economy-------I have lived through three monumental historical events. I remember only two of them. I do not remember the dropping of the two atomic bombs in August of 1945. As symbols of scientific world transformation, this constituted the most momentous event of the 20th century. This breakthrough, so far, has not led to nuclear war, even though on several occasions, it looked as though nuclear war was a distinct possibility. Nevertheless, the arrival of the nuclear age heralded a transformation of the modern world. We have not yet seen the end of that transformation. Martin van Creveld, the great military historian in the State of Israel, has argued that the nuclear age ruined the plans of empire for large nations. They could no longer risk a war with each other. Yet spending on empire increased. Today, large states face resistance from non-State groups. The Soviet Union went down when the Afghans beat them by using Stinger missiles. The USSR was an empire, and an empire that loses to insurgents has lost its reason for existence. We are about to experience a similar defeat in the same country. cont'd...http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north683.html ,

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ChrisJones February 8, 2009 7:37 pm (Pacific time)

I think it is obvious enough that I am promoting libertarianism, but let me state it for the record now. It's not like it's something to be ashamed of, like being a democrat (fascist who thinks they are a socialist) or republican (fascist, but suddenly hard-core libertarian when politically convenient) As far as bona-fides I will admit that I have no formal education much like george washington, but unlike washington, it is not something I regret. My commentary is what it is. The reader can take it or leave it.

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Henry Ruark February 8, 2009 3:18 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Mine 9;21 a.m. prompted rapid file search of some few remaining piles-here, turned up original Harper's Magazine ref. and PDF. Will test PDF to make sure still available (since dated five yrs. ago) and if so will share here. Basic flow as shared, and fits with other information known for at least twenty years from personal experience with some of those so-engaged...

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Henry Ruark February 8, 2009 1:22 pm (Pacific time)

To all: OCPP has national reputation as fair, comprehensive and nonpartisan source for detailed information on major economic issues. See OCPP story running now re House/Senate version of Obama action taken to clear credit and financial debacle due to longtime consequences of neocon policies perverting the economy.

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Henry Ruark February 8, 2009 12:50 pm (Pacific time)

Chris: Yrs re Rockwell tells all we need to know: "Llewellyn Harrison Rockwell, Jr. (born July 1, 1944, Boston), widely known as Lew Rockwell, is an American libertarian political commentator, activist, proponent of the Austrian School of economics, and president of the Ludwig von Mises Institute." IF you wish to promote libertarianism, why not simply so state and give your bona fides here ? Dissent is welcome; subterfuge to try to fool readership is not good faith nor honest dialog. For those who do not know liberftarianism, seek out Wikipedia, other sources, to learn with own eyes what it proposes for all, surely not extension of American Founders concept of democracy.

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Henry Ruark February 8, 2009 11:48 am (Pacific time)

Here is "see with own eyes" ref.link, inadvertently left out of last Comment: www.nytimes.com Divisions Over the Competing Stimulus Bills By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN WASHINGTON — The Senate agreement on a roughly $827 billion economic stimulus bill sets up tough negotiations with the House, primarily over tens of billions of dollars in aid to states and local governments, tax provisions, and education, health and renewable energy programs." To so deprive states of aid desperately needed via depriving them of same deficit uses as the national government must now employ is prima facie evidence of real GOP intent to "starve the beast" even if it means starve the nation NOW.

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Henry Ruark February 8, 2009 9:21 am (Pacific time)

Chris et al: Re ref. to role played here by shills, here's definition: shill (as in "decoy") n. : a decoy who acts as an enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of others." Having been one at several levels from "public relations" person to "consultant", each one servicing (!) client's needs --and often questionable demands, too-- I use the word perhaps too generally here. Forgive my fear for all, built on frightening experience with demands from some clients --always refused. Others I know "in the business" took the dollars and did the jobs. BUT there is no longer any doubt that same billionaire funded effort to misinform and pervert true public opinion is still continuing. Many are at work, some paid by "hit",others volunteers driven by personal/psychological patterns, often unknown to them, are at work trying to build inescapable network of heavy distorting influence for same malign motives of massive political intervention as in pre-FDR days, when this started. Strong evidence is claimed that FDR assassination was at one time in family plans. Historically there were ten to 20 superrich families, joined by agreement, but operating separately, funding "brain trust" foundations still at work (Heritage, notoriously) and publishing wherever they could crowbar stuff into type. Many editors then-working got tons of such stuff; I round-canned my share of it. Now it is done differently, via hi-tech channels, with new emphasis on distortion and perversion via Internet. Even fed agencies do so, as stories re "retired" Generals et al speaking Pentagon-paid stuff have shown recently. Some few of us at work to get controls via FCC et al,already deeply concerned at threat to true First Amendment rights owned by all, with honest reliance on honest channels, honestly ID'd so one knows from whence cometh all stuff. moresoon on this as projected work underway clears menace while preserving your full right and responsibility to speak out and shout !! Forgive my extremely strong reaction when I encounter MORE such "stuff". I refrain more times than I respond... !!! We work hard to make this an open, honest, ethical, AND democratic channel. YOU deserve to know from whence cometh whatever is found here, and YOU should react in full suspicion when ID is refused on phony charges of possible retaliation or threat. If YOU do not dare speak up publicly, the First Amendment is in death-throes --and WHO do you think is to blame ??? We preserve and protect it as we USE IT and FIGHT FOR IT by the way we do so...

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Henry Ruark February 7, 2009 4:08 pm (Pacific time)

Friend Chris: With all that salami, there's gotta be some cheese in there, somewheres ? Why don't you simply douse on a little more mustard, then you might be able to make a small salad on the side, too ? IF you gonna imitate a deli, why not do it Right, right ? Fun aside, appreciate your intensities and drive even though cannot make much sense otherwise...but that may just be my increasing age creeping up on me despite activity here to postpone that evil day...

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ChrisJones February 7, 2009 2:09 pm (Pacific time)

Henry you like the nyt op-eds so much here's a take on this friday's "please raise my taxes" I'm sure you loved..."before your very eyes" Fascist Flix Posted by Lew Rockwell at 03:35 PM The ceo of Netflix, Reed Hastings, wants his taxes raised. That's OK. But he also wants your taxes raised. I guess he's applying for a job in the fascist hierarchy, or privileges under National Obamism for his firm. (Thanks to Kuppusamy Ravindran.)

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Henry Ruark February 7, 2009 1:27 pm (Pacific time)

To all: The operative word here is "cogitation". "Confrontation" brings only reflected impact of returned opposition. One brings people together considering mutual problems and issues, with the concentration FROM reality TO new-reality AFTER careful choice set up by the ONLY real route-ever in any democracy: Consensus. IF you-all work a bit more at the cogitation-level, we can all move a bit faster to the cooperation-level...and then finally to the consensus platform providing precisely the foundation for some real solid reforms...which all of yours-now/here surely reflect by knowledge of existence and impacts --shared by that very fact, which is first step for cooperative consideration by rational/reasonable persons. IF allathis emphasis on cogitation so hard for some of you, trying a stick or two of gum chewed slowly, with a deep breath or two...sometimes will release unconsciously-acting anger and frustration from past failures... Amazing how that can return one's brain to something much more creative and commensurate with reaching new realities... "Thinking", conducted by some as constant name-nuance confrontation, invariably ends only with frustration for both sender and receiver of any such messages...

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ChrisJones February 7, 2009 1:18 pm (Pacific time)

I'm a shill like vic, jimmy warren, s. murphy everybody except the writer of the article is guess is just a shill. You don't seem to have anyone taking your side of the issue so all you can do is call everyone a shill. Feel free to provide any facts or links if you wish, if you get tired of making vicious personal attacks against any dissenters to your unpopular views.

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ChrisJones February 7, 2009 1:10 pm (Pacific time)

The opening line of this article is double-think by the way. "Wonder WHY we suddenly receive so many negative comments re Obama actions right here on our open, honest, democratic channel for ethical citizen dialog?"

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ChrisJones February 7, 2009 12:55 pm (Pacific time)

Notice the "see with your own eyes that I posted earlier. Peter shiff is NON PARTISAN he calls bush hoover and obama fdr. "what are you saying? Make sense man" please refer also to my see with own eyes.... If this isn't enough I would be glad to post much more concise information for your readers if you think these are too "people being so over-the-top critical and objecting to perfectly logical reasoning"...Also you say Chris, you are very hard to keep up with and your views really change a lot on things"--I know my libertarian views are confusing to some because they do not fit neatly into this confined left/right paradigm limitation of choice the establishment has imprisoned the minds of it's subjects within.

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ChrisJones February 7, 2009 12:39 pm (Pacific time)

You should be able to "buy" whatever system you choose tim. It's my opinion that neither dem nor repub parties represent the people sufficiently. Naturally another third party (libertarian) is coming into play, a party which you, tim king obviously have shown to know nothing about. The GOP is a done deal buddy get used to it.

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ChrisJones February 7, 2009 12:02 pm (Pacific time)

Sorry there tim I am an anarcho-leaning libertarian not GOP trash by the way. Not a shill either I do this because I believe in the cause of Liberty and I'm willing to fight for it. Sorry I'm not practicing the national religion of state worship up to ya'lls specs.

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ChrisJones February 7, 2009 11:47 am (Pacific time)

Well if you were TRYING to make an economy collapse you couldn't do a much better job, much damage was done by bush, all the more motivation to arrest him on his war crimes, which the coward obama will not do. But even at this point, there are many steps which can be taken to bring the economy back around. Removing the 700 military bases from around the world is one thing. I'm speaking OUT AGAINST the establishment while you are providing comfort for it. On the shill issue, are you financially compensated by anyone for your work at Salem-News tim? I'm doing this on my own my only motive is the well being of the republic. I have no boss and don't answer to anyone. I do not censor any of my comments, you take care of that for me whenever I have an esspecially valid point.

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Jimmy Warren February 7, 2009 11:34 am (Pacific time)

Editor thank you for your thoughtful and pertinent comments. I make no excuse for my interpretation of history nor how I see the current social/cultural environment as being harmful to not just African-Americans, but all Americans. I have refused to allow myself to be a victim, and because of that I have had a pretty good life, as do all of my family members. When you look at history, it should never be interpreted with today's value system and mores. I am against special rights given to anyone based on race for it just continues the dependence of those who receive it. Physical or mental disabilities is an entirely different matter. As far as Israel, screw'em! Did you know that yesterday a black mother who lost her son on the USS Cole met with President Obama, as did several other's who lost loved one's during that terrorist attack that killed 17 sailors, and has started a petition calling for the Impeachment of Obama because of his recent legal actions in that matter? She's not a racist, she is protesting his policies. You will be seeing more of that, it goes with the job. In regards to special treatment and lowering standards: Back in the early 70’s (Vietnam Vet, GI Bill) when I was about to graduate from Wayne State University in Detroit, we soon-to-be-grads had to assemble in one of the campus auditoriums to write a 250 word essay. Regardless of major, every student had to pass this simple (and widely known) exercise in order to receive their diploma. It was blindingly simple. The instructors gave handouts explaining that you had to introduce the subject, discuss it in the body, and then write the closing. 500 topics to choose from were listed on a separate sheet of paper, and an overhead projector kept the instructions, as explained verbally, cast on a huge screen in front of our huge group. A postcard came in the mail a week later telling if you passed or failed. I was already working at a job in my major when I read in The Detroit News how a large group of black students were suing the school for discrimination. It’s important to note here that Wayne State U in Detroit is and always has been just to the left of Karl Marx, politically. Political Correctness may have been born on this campus. Blacks with just over 1.5 high school GPAs were admitted as freshmen, and they were passed no matter which courses they took. Dumbing down for black students and social promotions were the rules of the day at WSU. After 4 years of, uh, “study”, they had failed the simple essay requirement. Their argument was that the requirement was biased against blacks due to the “fact” that writing essays were particularly difficult for their race. (So What testing method is to be used? It is worse now, and continuing to get worse almost daily). A few weeks later I read where the black students vs. WSU lawsuit was thrown out of court. Due to the absence of a healthy shame among "some" (very view, just loud squeaky wheels) African-Americans, and their near total disregard for learning while in school, these idiotic lawsuits continue. Today, the courts appear to be so PC-corrupt that the litigants often win before they even go to trial.

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ChrisJones February 7, 2009 11:20 am (Pacific time)

9 million starved to death in the first great depression when you get done contributing to this next one I hope you have fun living with something like that on your head. All because you didn't want to look like a capitalist racist.

Tim King: So you think Obama's plan to help people will lead to that? What planet do you live on? I think you are another GOP shill.

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ChrisJones February 7, 2009 11:11 am (Pacific time)

Also tim--" but I don't think the overall package is that bad" I disagree from the bottom of my soul with no alterior motives it is a very bad plan and you forget that the MAJORITY of the public agrees. Since ya'll believe in democracy so much why don't we just vote on this "stimulus" then??


And I know you are more compassionate than this tim..."if it is, if we survived eight years of hellish Bush years only to attack and nail the man's dead opposite, then we (read 'you') all deserve what comes"


The problem is that I'm not going to be the only one suffering. The reason for attacking his nonsensical policies is because we DON'T WANT whats coming. The economy is not anything to be played around with. It is a VERY serious matter of potentially millions STARVING TO DEATH!!


Also if you think obama is bushes dead opposite, I got a bridge I wanna sell you.

Any plan that Obama would have come up with would be attacked by you and the rest of the right wing diehards, so what does it matter? He could design absolute perfection and you would jump all over his back. That's because this isn't an honest or legitimate discussion; people being so over-the-top critical and objecting to perfectly logical reasoning. Are you part of this little team of people who are somehow benefitting from the GOP for attacks like this? I'm not buying this anymore, have a good day.

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ChrisJones February 7, 2009 11:01 am (Pacific time)

To tim:"Tim King: Chris, you are very hard to keep up with and your views really change a lot on things. You're calling Obama's less than a month long time in office "starving suffering populous living under slavish tyranny", what are you saying? Make sense man, don't make us think you are believing that the first black President is guilty of slavish tyranny. I'm serious about this, I am getting to where I approve fewer comments in the last couple of weeks and if I need to, I will approve even less. I read your comments and agree with much of what you say, but you lost me on this one." I am attempting to predict the outcome of this economic debacle through the events that are occurring. I'm sure during the times of the boston tea party people were bringing up similar points as you tim, but you always have to look at what things are likely to LEAD to in the long and short term. Just merely short term thinking is not sound.

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ChrisJones February 7, 2009 10:54 am (Pacific time)

"Social Security; a program created long ago by the American Socialist Party".....Thanks for the unsustainable pyramid scheme guys! Geniuses.

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S. Murphy February 7, 2009 10:53 am (Pacific time)

Earlier posts of mine re: economic issues were largely reflective of those several Nobel winners who hold different views than Krugman. They make their points well, based on historical records; whereas Krugman wants us to experiment with our nation's economic system based on theory. No thanks is what the majority of Americans are saying to Krugman and his like-minded cohorts as per www.rasmussen.com. My view is that, at the margin, money is better spent in the private sector than in the public sector. Money spent in the private sector improves our standard of living. Money spent in the public sector often has the opposite effect. We should privatize a great many things. Short of that, we should reduce taxes and reduce government spending so that resources are shifted from public to private hands. Our Founders stressed small government and individual rights. Power is to be given by the people to the government, not the government holding power over the people, which is what is taking place now. We should also de-regulate. The housing crisis was caused in large measure by over-regulation that forced bankers to make subprime loans. Banks did not want to make these loans, but government forced them to do so with the goal of making housing affordable to more people, including minorities. This began in earnest in 1999, and the record is clear. One just needs to look at the uptick in subprime mortgage purchases by Fannie May and Freddie Mac starting then. The evidence is overwhelming. Extreme environmental regulation and laws prevent the safe development of nuclear energy, and fuller utilization of our oil, gas, coal, and even hydroelectric resources. Over regulation - Sarbanes-Oxley mark to market - are artificially depressing the stock market. Over-regulation discourages business start ups and growth. Think taxes and fees. Tort reform would also be a good idea. Labor unions are too strong in my opinion. Our problems are not so much macro-economic (fiscal, monetary) as micro-economic - death by a thousand cuts.

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Henry Ruark February 7, 2009 10:24 am (Pacific time)

Chris: May I substitute "comfortable" for your "trapped", sir ? Cannot deny deep influence by the social, cultural, political and economic truths learned then, mostly "the hard way" via sometimes painful participation. Miss much of that deeply personal immersion in many now later in their life-learnings, but that's inevitable. Key point is that learning must continue so long as does breathing...which is where many fail today. They breath all okay, but learn slowly if at all... 'Twas ever thus, as many other old-man/reveries surely will reveal. BUT perhaps with some potent prodding some few will continue to learn. (Yes, for me, by Op Eds !; thanks for any usage you may find helpful.)

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ChrisJones February 7, 2009 10:17 am (Pacific time)

I can't say for sure what impact racism has against the president, but along with the "far right" the enemy of my enemy is my friend in this case.

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Jimmy Warren February 7, 2009 10:15 am (Pacific time)

A society that lives by lies and obfuscations cannot long survive.


"There is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world." THOMAS JEFFERSON


Responsible African-Americans are getting tired of all these diversions and distractions about racism, just provide an equal, racially blind playing field. For example all exams/tests should be racially blind, whether in the classroom or for job and promotion purposes. But those who make their living by agitation, or those who actually derive seemingly sadistic pleasure by stirring up non-issues (usually with disinformation), will no doubt continue their outlandish behavior to drive wedges between the races with innuendo and the onerous call to provide special treatment for minorities (and for whites to embrace guilt), which in turn incenses many white folk, and rightly so. Calling those who debate policies of our elected politicians to be racist, or anything else, is anti-democratic and fascist. Martin L King was a conservative, he was about those principals that conservatives stand for, not the wretched Alinsky's of the world and those who quote the socialistic mantra. That is the truth brothers and sisters.

Editor: Jimmy, with regard to "the onerous call to provide special treatment for minorities (and for whites to embrace guilt), which in turn incenses many white folk," how do you feel about the United States' support of Israel and the constant (Not that I object) reference to the Holocaust? To me the Holocaust is obviously a larger issue than slavery, that is except for the hundreds of thousands of slaves who lived and died in pure misery and cruelty, without a hint of liberty; to them it is no different. As a nation that technically ended racism with the Emancipation Proclamation and the conclusion of the Civil War in 1865, we were still full tilt racist in 1947 when President Truman ended the segregation ban in the military. Now I've been having white people tell me for a long time that 1947 is "long behind us" and so on. I do not think the plight of the black American is anything to take lightly. I find total amazement that the U.S. has sunk its reputation with the entire world over blind support of Israel but remains so casual over domestic racism.

Also, my parents and grandparents were able to live out their lives with a degree of comfort because of Social Security; a program created long ago by the American Socialist Party. Do you and your cohorts even realize or comprehend that? I have no problem with a government taking care of its own. That's what it is about you know; less suffering. People don't have equal rights for many reasons. Sometimes it is a handicap and sometimes it is a direct result of a person's culture. A child who is abused sexually or physically while growing up certainly has bigger challenges in attaining greatness than a child of wealth born to an upper-inclme family. Anyone who doesn't believe that is incapable of grasping the most basic information. The biggest problem anywhere at any time, is a lack of education followed by a lack of tolerance. That second one should not be under rated either, because tolerance is what allows your point of view to be posted here.

In the words of a song that I really like, "Where you are usually depends on where you start" and that is a fact.

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ChrisJones February 7, 2009 10:08 am (Pacific time)

To Henry "Che" Ruark: the "change process" is neofascism. I wish you would just call it what it is.

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ChrisJones February 7, 2009 9:56 am (Pacific time)

Obamanomics= starving suffering populous living under slavish tyranny. I may writing an op-ed piece with this as the title.

Tim King: Chris, you are very hard to keep up with and your views really change a lot on things. You're calling Obama's less than a month long time in office "starving suffering populous living under slavish tyranny", what are you saying? Make sense man, don't make us think you are believing that the first black President is guilty of slavish tyranny. I'm serious about this, I am getting to where I approve fewer comments in the last couple of weeks and if I need to, I will approve even less. I read your comments and agree with much of what you say, but you lost me on this one. I know about AIPAC and if you recall, I nailed Obama on that one big-time in a article. There are problems in the pieces and the moves, but I don't think the overall package is that bad and if it is, if we survived eight years of hellish Bush years only to attack and nail the man's dead opposite, then we (read 'you') all deserve what comes. I do not think it is rational to attack him so constantly and I am more than willing to be critical, just with more patience.

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ChrisJones February 7, 2009 9:53 am (Pacific time)

Henry- you seem to be trapped in the 60's as far as your views on racism go. The evil state's policies (drug war, inner cities, overseas murders) are the majority of the racism left in the world in my opinion.

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Vic February 7, 2009 9:45 am (Pacific time)

Happy Birthday, Henry ! If I could, Id send you a "see with own eyes" birthday cake...with your name on it of course , so anonymous, hiding behind tree types dont commandeer it and eat it themselves ! ;)

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Henry Ruark February 7, 2009 9:36 am (Pacific time)

To all: SO "cogitation strikes again", as your continuing Comments surely make clear, with some sparks flying, too. What will result, inevitably, as private-profit interests come clear, if not clean, for so many millions more than ever before, is the classic impact of change itself. After all, first unavoidable component for decision-making is the necessity to decide: "Must we make decision NOW ?" vx7That one got answered, loud and clear, on Nov. 4. What's resulting NOW is the also inevitable process of clear choice for what the next step MUST be...yet to arrive, but surely well on the way via both D.C. action AND great dialog across our nation. Thank you all for your strong, solid, mostly ethical dialog. See upcoming Op Ed on "Change Process vs Laissez-Faire", built from whole series of articles over years on the demanded, inevitable steps.

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Dennis Couch February 7, 2009 9:10 am (Pacific time)

It is a matter of Hope -- a matter of Right -- and the unheralded majority demand and desire for Change. The -- Majority of our Democratic function -- have selected our President for the menu he has offered up as -- his solutions -- of -- hope and right -- and offered "Change". They are well documented, oft repeated, and not worth repeating here again. It is the voting populace of the -- winning side -- that is viewing our new president as well. Every soul that voted him to power is looking not only for their own -- personal reward -- as having a a promised manifested or extended, but is also looking to point out to the other side how well the president is manning his post. The economy is paramount and forefront at this time, and of importance to our people, our parties, our nation and the world. If my wife and I agree that our auto needs servicing, our budgeted funds are focused on the job at hand -- if we are to succeed with our plan-- of focusing on the repair of our auto. New brake pads fit nicely under the guidelines of our plan -- a new front door for the house does not--! This is obvious to all those reasonable people, of any party, of any mentality, of anyone's ability to judge the direction of how this monies should be spent. The proposed stimulus should not be an appropriation bill -- as it shows lost focus by our leaders -- for the hope of those like the common citizen looking for relief. --Two hundred million for birth control going to other countries?-- Are those lawmakers who coined this idea mad? Two and one-half billion for our National Parks? Is this trickle down something or other? Don't National parks already require a user fee for this and that? Can our lawmakers please explain to me how this will help the common citizen? --Please?-- It becomes apparent applying the simplest of guidelines, that the package that those in power have lost their way, and that everything that we have voted for -- Change -- and having -- honest and thinking -- politicians we can trust to do -- the right thing-- is unraveling faster that ever expected! Under the guise of change it strongly appears that we have replaced one set of crooks with another -- panel of thieves --. This is not the change I was promised and looks like the same old garbage that has been -- dusted off and recycled -- and presented as the new and improved. I have lost my faith in our leader, I have lost my faith in the press, I have lost my faith in our country. The only change I see today is a new face and new name at the help, and that individual surrounded by a new set of crooks maneuvering for a chance to line their pockets. The disappointment is going to mount, and it will be fueled initially by the conservative press. If there is no appreciative improvement if the plight of the common man, the liberal press is sure to divide and solidify ranks with the Conservatives. What Change.

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Henry Ruark February 7, 2009 8:03 am (Pacific time)

To all-att. Jimmy: Here's "see with own eyes" link to racism declaration per Op Ed, from authoritative source-specialist writer: www.opednews.com How Racism Sparked Capitalism's Financial Crisis. By Joe Sims (Excerpt-last pghs concluding potently-detailed piece.) "Whether subprimes caused the great financial instability or simply triggered the deepening of an already existing problem, one thing is sure: its racist origins are undeniable. What Marxist theoreticians like Henry Winston and William L. Patterson called the “Achilles’ heel” of U.S. capitalism — racism — has once again made itself felt and sent shockwaves around the world, helping close one chapter in the class and democratic struggle and opening up another. "At the heart of the collapse of the financial system and the accompanying economic recession lies the unparalleled greed of the banks coupled with the declining wages of poor working people exacerbated by a racist social division of labor. The solution to the problem may well continue to lie in the repayment in full of a centuries-old debt. To paraphrase Martin Luther King, capitalism’s promissory note is still marked, “Insufficient Funds.” ----------------- This is one of about ten similar source-documents for the Op Ed statement re racism continuing its malign impacts. We strive to build Op Ed notes on solid-source information to make sure the conclusions are both rational/reasonable and well-supported by others in position to surveil special areas much more closely tnan others NOT specializing can ever do. That is great strength of Op Ed format for open, honest, democratic channel provided by S-N, and deserving of ethical approach by Commenteers.

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thinker February 6, 2009 9:08 pm (Pacific time)

Desperate to resurrect near-fatal failure from their Constitutional debacle, the Far Right is now hard at work to curb --then kill-off-- the first Presidency by a black man since the Founders declared “each is equal under law”. It's all about race, that's what your liberals are all about. Well, get the facts, Barack Hussain Obama is not BLACK, he has a white mother and a black father. And the truth is that he is pushing Socialism down the American people's throat and we will not tolerate this. Obama is very close to Neo Marxism and if you want to live this way, go ahead and keep believing that he is the savior of the world. He will destroy this Country.

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ChrisJones February 6, 2009 7:45 pm (Pacific time)

To all: "see with own eyes" Step on the gas -- we're headed for a cliff!by William Grigg Apparently, I need to make a radical downward revision of my estimate of Barack Obama's intelligence. I really don't think that a reasonably bright fellow would set himself up the way he did in his recent speech to a Democrat retreat in Williamsburg: "I don't care if you're driving a hybrid or SUV. If you're driving toward a cliff, you have to change direction. That's what the American people called for." Soooo -- the right thing to do, when we're headed for a cliff, is to jump on the accelerator, O Divine One? Forgive me for persisting in my faithlessness, but didn't you vote for the Bushling's Plutocrat Bailout Bill, O One Most Holy? Doesn't your "stimulus" bill simply represent another huge orgy of spending? Obama the Blessed (peace be upon him) likewise professed puzzlement over criticism that his plan simply increases spending, rather than providing "stimulus" to the economy, according to a write-up of the speech: "`What do you think stimulus is?' Obama said, with visible frustration. `That's the point.'" Actually, the point is that Obama, who is a Marxist to his chromosomes, simply cannot understand how an economy can operate without central planning and invasive manipulation by the state. I don't know how much of Obama's theatrical indignation was mere posturing and pandering. I suspect this is actually a pretty accurate sample of what passes for this guy's thinking. I suspect that when the heat and pressure deprive him of his superficial urbanity, he's going to turn really petty and vicious.

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ChrisJones February 6, 2009 7:43 pm (Pacific time)

To all:"see with your own eyes" Writes Aaron Task on Yahoo TechTicker: The fiscal stimulus bill being debated in Congress not only won't help the economy, it will make the recession much worse, says Peter Schiff, president of Euro Pacific Capital. Schiff scoffs at the notion the economic decline is starting to level off and concedes no government action means a "terrible" recession. But the path of increased government intervention will lead to "unmitigated disaster," says Schiff, who gained notoriety in 2007-08 for his prescient calls on the housing bubble and U.S. stocks. The problem, he says, is the government is trying to perpetuate a "phony economy" based on borrowing and spending. With the U.S. consumer tapped out, the government is "now taking on the mantle" of consumer of last resort, he continues, predicting the bond bubble will soon burst - if it hasn't already - ultimately leading to a collapse of the dollar and an "inflationary depression worse than anything any of us have ever seen." If nothing else, Schiff is an nonpartisan critic of American policymakers, comparing President Bush to Herbert Hoover and President Obama to FDR, and neither in a favorable way.

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Henry Clay Ruark February 6, 2009 7:42 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Here's another authoritative source confirming open attack on O-program by media, whether UNinformed,MISinformed OR ??: www.mediamatters.org February 06, 2009 Fundamentally flawed stimulus coverage by Jamison Foser "If there's one fact that should be made clear in every news report about the stimulus package working its way through Congress, it is this: Government spending is stimulative. "That's a basic principle of economics, and understanding it is essential to assessing any stimulus package. So it should be an underlying premise of the media's coverage of the stimulus debate. Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case. Indeed, reporters routinely suggest that spending is not stimulative. "Economist Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, explains: "Spending that is not stimulus is like cash that is not money. Spending is stimulus, spending is stimulus. Any spending will generate jobs. It is that simple. ... Any reporter who does not understand this fact has no business reporting on the economy." "Unfortunately, many of the reporters who have shaped the stimulus debate don't seem to understand that." ------------------------ There is simply no question left open that government MUST act at times like these, since there is no other resource left when "the miracle of the market" suddenly dissolves away in the distrust always ready and threatening in any coercive and calculating relationship. Confidence is key, and when it is dissipated so is that driving force.

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S. Murphy February 6, 2009 6:12 pm (Pacific time)

It's clear why Keynes's popularity endures in Congress. Intellectual cover for a spending spree will always be appreciated there. But it's harder to see any justification for the perverse form of fiscal child abuse that heaps massive debts on future generations. Today, one problem with manipulating the economy through "discretionary" spending -- that part of the budget not mandated by one entitlement or another -- is that entitlements have grown large enough to influence the economy, a phenomenon unheard of when Keynes was alive. Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security and other entitlements are becoming larger factors in economic decision making than what Congress spends on, say, roads. Discretionary spending is becoming irrelevant as a fiscal tool. Of course, despite Mr. Obama's campaign promises to adhere to "Pay As You Go" budgeting, no one seems terribly worried about paying for what will likely be a trillion-dollar stimulus package. What everyone should agree on is that the money has to come from somewhere, either through higher taxes, borrowing or printing. If the government borrows the money for the stimulus, then it will either have to print money later or raise taxes to pay it back. If the government raises taxes to pay for the stimulus, it will, in effect, be robbing Peter to pay Paul. If the government prints the money, it will increase inflation, which will decrease the value of the dollar. That would, in effect, rob Paul to pay Paul back with devalued currency.

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Henry Ruark February 6, 2009 5:39 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Your responses highly appreciated since surely now doth indicate some cogitation taking place. Re Vic: Agree with most of yours except speed of action. It took 30 yrs to concoct this horrendous stew,so if O clears it in two years that's surely phenomenal. He cannot walk on water, but sure can wade like hell...in deep-stuff here now. Re Chris, depends on what part of big picture you see, with some missing. Re quoted HCR characterization,informed opinion is "informed", and sometimes beyond where I started, often only shorttime stop-point. Re Jimmy-points: Well-said friend J. Surely did NOT mean to so paint every citizen, no matter which color. Yr other points open to ongoing dialog, and show clear and clean basic understandings. Continue with Op Eds and we may find we much closer together than may appear. BUT do surely believe, on deep and deepening evidence found, that racism motivates a far larger part of this attack on O than should be the case now, given what we've learned since the Founders and the Civil War. That's one of the greatest casualties of world history, still shaping our American world far too much. For all: Please remember role here is to create dialog and deeper cogitation, via report of what I find from digging to explore information from many sources. Until, unless you share same sources, further modified by very closely similar personal shaping experiences, we bound to be far apart at times, too damned close at others ! That's as democratic as one can get, and basis for representative government via viewpoints very strongly communicated to them. That's what should and MUST happen NOW for us to work way out of this current crisis, clearly caused by collapse of ongoing policies since Reagan, and perhaps not entirely open to what worked for FDR, since one hellofalot of hotandcold water is under the bridge since then. But cogitation will do the job every time, esp. when shared for democratic dialog. That's true only if you keep constant, strong drum-beat in the ears of those too-easily seduced by "corporate campaign contributions" (read: simple bribery satisfactorily packaged to conceal its odor.) Thank you all for your strong and honest participation. Please continue strong and critical, which is the final demanded ingredient for the real "wisdom of crowds", a basic principle for democracy. Feb. 3 was 91st; I highly appreciate privilege of communicating with all of you, and hope I am still learning, as you should be, too.

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Anonymous February 6, 2009 4:36 pm (Pacific time)

Also google: 1. all 9/11 airports serviced by one israeli company. 2. The israeli spy ring 3. Israel has never recognized the International Court. Israel never signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Israel has defied dozens of UN Resolutions. 4. Olmert boasts Jewish power over America. 5. Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel I could do this all day. The zionists want a one world government, and they will do anything to get it. Look at those palestinian children. Who knows who is next? Us maybe? Zionist bankers are doing great, wile U.S. is in a depression. Seeing the picture yet? Israel admits: "No Hamas rockets were fired during ceasefire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfFMZ7Y-s_c CNN Confirms Israel Broke Ceasefire First http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KntmpoRXFX4 Israel broke the cease-fire http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jOFXL62zw0andfeature=related Erdogan: Israel broke 6-month truce http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1232643740818andpagename=JPost%...

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Anonymous February 6, 2009 4:36 pm (Pacific time)

Another Israeli spokeswoman, Tzipora Menache, stated that she was not worried about negative ramifications the Israeli onslaught on Gaza might have on the way the Obama administration would view Israel. She said 'You know very well, and the stupid Americans know equally well, that we control their government, irrespective of who sits in the White House. You see, I know it and you know it that no American president can be in a position to challenge us even if we do the unthinkable. What can they (Americans) do to us? We control congress, we control the media, we control show biz, and we control everything in America. In America you can criticize God, but you can't criticize Israel." (google spokepersons name for complete story) I have heard much of this same talk from several other high ranking Israeli officials. They arent even hiding it anymore.

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Henry Ruark February 6, 2009 4:29 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Here's "see with own eyes" last several pghs from Krugman NYT column today. IF anyone disagrees NOW with the Obama plan winning its way through Congress, they quarrel with Krugman, not my Op Ed !: Excerpt today www.nytimes.com Paul Krugman column "Would the Obama economic plan, if enacted, ensure that America won't have its own lost decade? Not necessarily: a number of economists, myself included, think the plan falls short and should be substantially bigger. But the Obama plan would certainly improve our odds. And that's why the efforts of Republicans to make the plan smaller and less effective - to turn it into little more than another round of Bush-style tax cuts - are so destructive. "So what should Mr. Obama do? Count me among those who think that the president made a big mistake in his initial approach, that his attempts to transcend partisanship ended up empowering politicians who take their marching orders from Rush Limbaugh. What matters now, however, is what he does next. "It's time for Mr. Obama to go on the offensive. Above all, he must not shy away from pointing out that those who stand in the way of his plan, in the name of a discredited economic philosophy, are putting the nation's future at risk. The American economy is on the edge of catastrophe, and much of the Republican Party is trying to push it over that edge." -------------- Note Krugman's "mistake" is in O's ethical, decent approach to the matter, betrayed by the GOP demand for surrender of O/s mandate from millions, firmnly on record, to conduct nation's businss via true, open, honest "transformative" steps. SO should we allow sameolddeal to disrupt, deny, defy, delay what clearly commonsense tells nation MUST be done, rapidly and completely ?

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Henry Clay Ruark February 6, 2009 2:58 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Here's "see with own eyes" from one of most reputable national source-sites: www.thinkprogress.org ECONOMY 'Are These Folks Serious?' "Yesterday, President Obama strongly condemned members of both political parties for characterizing the economic recovery package before Congress as a "pork" spending plan for pet projects: "[W]hen you hear these attacks deriding something of such obvious importance as this, you have to ask yourself, 'Are these folks serious?'" Despite the loss of 600,000 jobs last month alone, debate over the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 has been reduced to petty bickering over extremely small portions of the overall recovery plan. Marching to Rush Limbaugh's drumbeat, conservatives spent all week on cable news caricaturing tiny portions of the bill -- including provisions that they had previously supported -- in order to score political points and embarrass the Obama administration. But these antics have distracted Washington from "the reality that we may well be falling into an economic abyss." Today, The Progress Report takes a step back and looks at the key principles that should guide the construction of any compromise on the economic recovery package." -------------- You will find this site of solid value if you cogitate on its content. Try it out and see for yourselves.

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Henry Ruark February 6, 2009 1:55 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Want other voices with right to speak ? Here's one from noted writer Depression-born: www.opednews.com February 6, 2009 One Way or the Other By David Glenn Cox "Democracy thrives on altruistic patriotism; capitalism thrives on unbridled greed. While both political parties agree that this is the worst economic event since the Great Depression, they have somewhat different ideas about how to fix it. The Democrats in Congress have cobbled together a stimulus package, and yes it is full of bobbles such as Charles Schumer's tax credit subsidy for mass transit riders and tax credits for Hollywood. The Republicans have formulated an alternative stimulus plan, the same plan that they have been pushing for the last thirty years, tax cuts and credits for corporations and the wealthy. "The Republican leadership, after pledging to the President to work in a bipartisan manner, on Friday returned to Capitol Hill and attacked the Democrat's plan like hungry lions on a wildebeest. They complained about the $600 million for new cars. Let's see, $600 million divided by $25,000 is 2,400, that amount divided by 50 states, that is 48 cars per state. American cars, to keep American workers working. The Republicans are also upset about $200 million to re-sod the National Mall in Washington; this after Republicans approved $592 million to build an embassy in Baghdad the size of Vatican City with annual operating costs of $1.2 billion dollars." ----------- You'll find much, much more showing you WHY GOP must kill off President O's early action or die...see for yourselves, evaluate with own mind, at full-content link given above at title.

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Henry Clay Ruark February 6, 2009 1:45 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Here's "see with own eyes" from WPost column today by noted political columnist Dionne: www.wpost.com (excerpted last-pgh) "In just two weeks, the elation of Inauguration Day has given way to a classic form of partisan hardball. Obama and his advisers have been forced to learn basic lessons on the run. For starters, the media cannot be counted on to be either liberal or permanently enchanted with any politician. Arguments left unanswered can take hold, whether they make sense or not. And one more lesson: No occupant of the White House has ever been able to walk on water. ------------------ Read entire column yourself to evaluate dirty-work via Internet under way, with same stuff repeated in every open channel possible to reach. It IS happening, could NOT do so without moreofsame, paid for by same Far Right billionaire-bunch dedicated to feudalism for everyone else. SO shake a bit of commonsense salt on bitter-lesson "anon" and non-ID's masked man at your door trying to sell you something highly redolent already.

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Jimmy Warren February 6, 2009 1:37 pm (Pacific time)

When President Obama charged that Reagan-era "trickle down economics" didn't work, not only was he wrong, but he's also wrong to think that his own trickle-down plan to grow government will stimulate the economy. Analyzing the stimulus plan as it currently stands, in my opinion the pending bill is "deeply flawed." The Democrats' spending proposal “is horribly mismatched with industries that have suffered job losses." Policymakers are not concentrating on creating jobs in sectors that need them, such as professional and business services, construction, retail and other subsectors of the service industry. Consequently, conservatives are right, both substantively and politically, to oppose this monstrosity, and smart to offer a bold alternative. For instance, among the stimulus plan proposals is $88 billion earmarked for additional federal participation in Medicaid. What American will be hired by a small business, factory, retail shop, hotel, restaurant or service company because of this spending?" Very few. Despite the insistence of White House economic adviser Larry Summers that the stimulus plan must be "targeted, timely and temporary," the bill does the opposite. I also would like to add that I am African-American, and have been for 64 years now. I do not consider my white friends to be "racist" if they protest the policies of Brother Obama. Would you consider the African-Americans who protested any white president to be racist? Let's be responsible, it's fear mongering and using other methods like this that cause conflicts and it's usually done to scare people and not to just stifle debate, but to end it. That is what real fascists do in my opinion.

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ChrisJones February 6, 2009 12:39 pm (Pacific time)

If the new deal "ended" the depression, than why did we have double digit unemployment up until ww2? The new deal didn't work. A great deal of the opposition the dems are seeing on their insane economic policy is from those who have studied the great depression and learned that it would have merely been a recession without destructive government intervention aka--"solutions"--that were anything but.-----If the writer truly does care for the "the youngest, underprivileged and otherwise unrepresented people" he should not be advocating policies that will fatally destroy our currency through hyper-inflation. Wait until the T-bond bubble bursts (predicted by shiff) and the savers in the world buy gold instead of our worthless IOU's. The fed will have no choice but to begin MONETIZING DEBT.

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Vic February 6, 2009 10:50 am (Pacific time)

Henry, my friend...it ain't that black and white. I am about as far from a neocon as I can get, and my criticism of Obama began when he appointed Rahm Emmanuel as Chief of Staff, then Hillary as Sec. of State...Change??? It doesnt sound like it, but we will see. His deafening silence on Gaza ( except for the part where he justifies Israels actions.."If someone were firing rockets at my home..." he didnt bother to mention how he would feel if "someone" were bombing his home and town with F-14s dropping 2000lb bombs, or how he would feel if his daughters were burnt to the bone by white phosphorous, but he couldnt take them to the hospital because even if they got past the snipers, the hospital had already been destroyed). I hope your positive impressions of Obama are proven out. I know there are plenty of neocons who would love to see everything go to Hell, so they could feel better about their destruction of America, but not everyone who questions his decisions falls in that category. We have been sold out so many times, we all ought to be distrustful and sceptical,AND we should demand quick...like 2009 quick, reversal of the policies that got us to this point.

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