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Aug-31-2007 13:19printcomments

Snow Resigns: Saying He's Broke After Working for Bush White House

Snow quashes suggestions that he is leaving over his battle with cancer.

Outgoing White House Spokesman Tony Snow
Outgoing White House Spokesman Tony Snow

(SALEM, Ore.) - Where do you begin when analyzing Tony Snow's recent decision to leave his post as the President's official Spokesman?

The former FOX reporter says he is leaving the White House because of failing finances, but many are speculating that Snow's September 14th departure almost has to be connected to his ongoing bout with cancer.

He is the latest of the President's men charging the exit door well ahead of schedule. Critics say their haste is to be expected after what many call the most failed presidency in U.S. history.

Doctors diagnosed Snow who is 52, with colon cancer in 2005. This year it spread to his liver, but he said Friday that treatment had halted the cancer's spread and "I'm feeling great."

Snow will not be remembered for the intensity and hostility of his predecessor Scott McClellan, but there were still many noteworthy moments during his time as Press Secretary.

Snow had what can only be described as a "combative press conference" with White House reporters over the President's decision to commute a prison term for top Vice-Presidential aide Irving Lewis "Scooter" Libby, who had been sentenced to 30 months in prison for obstruction of justice.

Earlier, Bush had vowed to fire any White House staffer that was convicted in the case. Snow was accused of "insulting the intelligence" of one White House reporter, when he denied that Libby's ability to avoid his prison sentence was motivated by party politics.

Many insiders in Washington, D.C. say the only reason Libby walked without paying his debt to the public is because of his potential to leak much bigger information about Dick Cheney and Karl Rove's illegal dealings to the press.

President Bush made these comments about Snow's announcement to step down early.

"I sadly accept his desire to leave the White House, and he'll do so on September the 14th. He is -- it's been a joy to watch him spar with you. He's smart, he's capable, he's witty. He's capable of -- he's able to talk about issues in a way that the American people can understand."

Even the President brought cancer into the conversation, which Snow is going to significant effort to deny. Bush says Snow will be come out ahead in his personal struggles.

"And I don't know what he's going to do -- I'm not sure he does yet, either. But whatever it is, it's going to be -- two things: One, he'll battle cancer and win. And secondly, he'll be a solid contributor to society."

The outgoing spokesman is married and has three children. He says that his $168,000 salary from the White House isn't enough.

Snow told reporters that his family took out a loan when he came to the White House and that loan's now gone, adding that "Cancer has nothing to do with this decision."

The ultimate irony?

No doubt the associated costs of healthcare play into Snow's early departure, whether Tony mentions it or not.

It may even be predictable, if you asked Michael Moore about it, or if you have watched his latest controversial video release.

Moore's recent documentary "Sicko" details the astronomical costs of the U.S. healthcare system while comparing the national picture with that of other countries, the last you would expect, that provide affordable care for their residents, places like Cuba.

Now it looks like even the White House Spokesman has apparently been priced out of the game.

The former FOX reporter began his stint as the White House Press Secretary in April, 2006, replacing Scott McClellan. Snow's term would have ended in January 2009. His replacement will be Dana Perino.

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Henry Ruark September 6, 2007 6:01 am (Pacific time)

Wonder what happened to Scott ? Thought that might be him on Coast story, but guess not. We'll never know if he got pants re-buttoned... Honest, open, democratic dialog welcome here, but we do not need wasted space, time, effort, for destructive personal defense re politics. Will "swear off" when neocon attack lets up !!

Henry Ruark September 5, 2007 11:21 am (Pacific time)

Cynic et al" Again, friend, your insight sharp and discerning...that's one inescapable consequence of neocon nasty-attack sequence. If left unanswered, gain results for malign machination while if answered we descend to antidemocratic time-waste. That's wellknown objective spelled out specifically in political cabal/conspiracy literature. Documentation on request, from file-full, beginning in Reagan era, well exemplified by Norquist et Cie in more recent years.

Cynic September 5, 2007 9:50 am (Pacific time)

Is there any reason why ongoing personal attacks are being posted here? One person says something negative about someone, then the other person must defend himself. Soon it becomes a distracting mud-slinging contest and has nothing to do with the subject at hand. sort of like our politicians work. This degrades from the quality and value of this service.

Henry Ruark September 5, 2007 7:24 am (Pacific time)

SLM et al: Chickenfeed vs what hundreds of corporate CEOs carry off for essentially same "snow"-job ! (No pun !) That's where "campaign contributions" come from, via "corporate person-hood" paid for and delivered from Supreme Court, major and most-malign manipulation now lavishly paving way for devastating distortion of First Amendment, Fourteenth Amendment, et al. We can change allathat, if we so choose, and operate in full traditional American cooperative wit, wisdom, will "OF the people, BY the people, FOR the people." My astute wife of 60 years had favorite slogan:"Keeping quiet will never start the riot."

S.LaMarche; September 5, 2007 5:37 am (Pacific time)

168,000 bucks a year,(plus percs), to B.S. the public. Am I supposed to be cryin'?

Henry Ruark September 4, 2007 4:16 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Guess Scott decided to button up pants and forget about pressing that button... That's neocon component we see allatime: Big, bloody talk but when push (the button) comes to shove (the action demanded) they button up and quit. "See with own eyes" easily by review of Bush-promises vs world-recognized realities.

Neal Feldman September 3, 2007 11:57 pm (Pacific time)

Scott Forbes - I guess one man's 'decisive and goal oriented' is another man's 'ignorant, delusional, blind and megalomaniacal'. Shrub lives inside a bubble where he never sees or hears anything that disagrees with his BS. How in the world can any sane person look at this and think this is the way to run this country? This clown ran as 'a uniter not a divider' promising to move towards the middle. Instead he has been the most right wing divisive force this country has ever witnessed. In 2001 he had the opportunity to unite this country like never before and instead he abused that good will by using it as cover for some of the most unamerican BS antics since HUAC (like ramrodding the travesty that is the misnamed USA PATRIOT Act (you DO know it is an anagram having nothing to do with patriotism and everything to do against patriotism right?) which was voted into law by a bunch of compliant sheep who had never even READ it. The darkest days in this nation were not the 9-11 attacks bt the political BS that immediately followed. And i wonder how you would feel if China invaded the US using your little omelette metaphor. Ah well...

Henry Ruark September 3, 2007 6:15 pm (Pacific time)

Scott et al" What about that red button, kid ? Can't get yr knees unscrambled now ? When challenged to act on what you wrote or NOT, where are you ? Here's what you wrote; why not make that omelette ? "You break some eggs, apply some heat, wallah you've got yourself an omlet. But seriously, we are world leaders so we must lead and that sometimes means "selfserving interfering in other folks' affairs things that tends to piss off the world at us" as you so eloquently put it. Some will love us, some will hate us, but that can't be what motivates us." Did you ever get yr pants buttoned up ? Not that it matters much, now...

Henry Ruark September 3, 2007 2:56 pm (Pacific time)

Scott: Here's a third solid aphorism for your memory-book, kid...and a smiling good-by, too... "HYPOCRITE, n. One who, professing virtues that he does not respect secures the advantage of seeming to be what he depises.": Ambrose Bierce - Journalist and Editor, 1842-1914

Henry Ruark September 3, 2007 2:15 pm (Pacific time)

Scott: So would you push that red button or NOT? Are you conscientious human beyond politics or NOT ? Which is it, kid ? AND pull up your pants, too... Feelings are fine, but opinion, to be meaningful, must be based on realistic fact, which is why reference and documentation mean so much...where's yours ? Bellyache means something entirely different, which is why you need to adjust those pants...

Henry Ruark September 3, 2007 1:35 pm (Pacific time)

Scott: You tapdance smartly, kid, but your pants hang down badly. If computer-generated, how come they send ME those checks allatime ? Workin' on 4th-million --words that is !--and could send last one from KAPPAN but surely above yr reading level.

Scott Forbes September 3, 2007 1:06 pm (Pacific time)

I've decided that Henry is not a real person, but instead one of those random word generators. You know the ones that email you all the time? The words make no sense to anyone, yet they have perfect grammatical syntax? LOL We'll call him 'Henry-Bot'. :->

Scott Forbes September 3, 2007 12:34 pm (Pacific time)

Henry's arguing style reminds me of the skit from Saturday Night Live- Dan Akroyd starts his Point-Counterpoint debate with, "Jane, you ignorant slut..." LOL

Henry Ruark September 3, 2007 12:22 pm (Pacific time)

Scott: Now realize ethical disclosure demanded. Here it is: In Chicago years married then-leading Child Psychiatrist, giving friends huge joking opportunity. Her practice included many delinquent teeners...which is how I learned about Adorno et al...and have followed that research ever since. SO: You may have special qualifications, too, but doubt if you can match that one...

S cott Forbes September 3, 2007 12:08 pm (Pacific time)

Mr. King writes: "He is the latest of the President's men charging the exit door well ahead of schedule. Critics say their haste is to be expected after what many call the most failed presidency in U.S. history." For balance let's also point out that supporters call President Bush the most decisive and goal oriented president since Reagan. I'm not aware that there is a schedule for public servants to enter and exit their govvernment positions. That's specious. and special at the same time.

Henry Ruark September 3, 2007 11:58 am (Pacific time)

Scott: Rapid "content analysis" here even without "test question" now indicates "next one" needed to prove up yr psychological status. Here it is: Must assume you never read Adorno's classic psychiatric study re "Authoritarian Personality"; nor followed recent further research by Lakoff, Altemeyer, Wolfe,et al; nor seen Toplin's new book "Radical Conservatism". All deal authoritatively with your obvious type in politics. SO, if you dare, check out Toplin-summary on History-site at: Be sure to report here on what you find out re yourself. Note u never cite any kind of documentation to support yr stuff...why not ? Afraid of what we might check "with own eyes" ? That's why I document my own with easy-check ref. for all...only honest, ethical approach for real demo-dialog.

Henry Ruark September 3, 2007 11:37 am (Pacific time)

Scott: Iran-attack timely for sure, this is SUNDAY TIMES (London) story. U Never Answered Mine Re How U Stand On That --YR last-one makes it seem you would press red-button if you could. SO ? Yes or No ? "This is high-stakes test" like those imposed on millions of our kids by Bush's NCLB takeover plan for education. Also ties to latest psychiatric findings re those who refuse reality. More on that next. THE Pentagon has drawn up plans for massive airstrikes against 1,200 targets in Iran, designed to annihilate the Iranians’ military capability in three days, according to a national security expert. Alexis Debat, director of terrorism and national security at the Nixon Center, said last week that US military planners were not preparing for “pinprick strikes” against Iran’s nuclear facilities. “They’re about taking out the entire Iranian military,” he said. Debat was speaking at a meeting organised by The National Interest, a conservative foreign policy journal. He told The Sunday Times that the US military had concluded: “Whether you go for pinprick strikes or all-out military action, the reaction from the Iranians will be the same.” It was, he added, a “very legitimate strategic calculus”. President George Bush intensified the rhetoric against Iran last week, accusing Tehran of putting the Middle East “under the shadow of a nuclear holocaust”. He warned that the US and its allies would confront Iran “before it is too late”.

Henry Ruark September 3, 2007 11:04 am (Pacific time)

Scott: Yr compliments fully appreciated; but my record is out there for public checl --where's yours ? You obviously never heard Reagan's favorite Christmas-present story, involves one kid getting room full of horse manure. Keeps ecpecting to find pony in there somewheres...cited here since Stockman uses it in at least five full chapters. But then you don't believe in books with factual progression for concepts, do you ? Only insults left now, so which will you choose next for us "others" who must be beheaded SOMEhow...

Scott Forbes September 3, 2007 10:48 am (Pacific time)

The other point Neal makes, that going out into the world as a country we are as likely to much things up as to fix anything. If that's your point, well taken, but so what? The alternative is to sit on our hands and do nothing, and frankly that's not smart. You break some eggs, apply some heat, wallah you've got yourself an omlet. But seriously, we are world leaders so we must lead and that sometimes means "selfserving interfering in other folks' affairs things that tends to piss off the world at us" as you so eloquently put it. Some will love us, some will hate us, but that can't be what motivates us.

Scott Forbes September 3, 2007 10:18 am (Pacific time)

To Neal, regarding Carter vs. Reagan, I won't detail Carter's failures as a leader since anyone wo lived through his presidency can judge for themselves. Since then he has gone from being a model ex president during his Habitat For Humanity work, to being an embarrassment. My original approval of both Carter and Clinton has gone down over time, while my initial dislike for Reagan has turned to grudging respect, then admiration for the actor turned politician. I even like Nancy Reagan now, and you no doubt remember how despised she was as first lady. I could go on but you get the point.

Scott Forbes September 3, 2007 9:59 am (Pacific time)

And also Henry, your idea that anyone who hasn't read one particular book that you've read is therefore unqualified to speak. That's nonsense and you know it. You like to quote other people, so here's one for you old sport... "Better to say nothing and let people think you are ingnorant, rather than to open your mouth and leave no doubt." You probably think this applies to me, but it applies equally to you, Henry.

Scott Forbes September 3, 2007 9:54 am (Pacific time)

You know what Henry? I'm getting tired of you calling me ignorant. I know you said you were 89 years old, and that gives you some 40 years on me, but I'm a lot further away from senility than you are my friend.

Henry Ruark September 3, 2007 8:58 am (Pacific time)

Scott: You know that old one: "Vas you dere, Charlie ?" We now know what you think, and th WHY is easy...but fill us in a bit on what you have DONE other than dig. Meanwhile for insider fact on Reagan as manipulated by neocons surrounding him, start of most current tribulations, see Stockman's "Why the Reagan Revolution Failed": ISNB 0-06-015560-4, 425pp of unavoidable factual report. Have you read it ? If not, you have no right to speak on current calamities since you have no understandings of the origination situations. OR don't you accept reality from those who lived it, either ? That's standard neocon principle where privilege and dollars are involved.

Henry Ruark September 3, 2007 7:58 am (Pacific time)

Scott: Must point out for your ignorance that talk-radio is heavily neocon-dominated now, as with Limbaugh et al. ONE of two dominant owners holds more than 1300 "local" stations, many now sharing so-called "unitary" newsrooms with very little real "local" emphasis. Recent national report says Clinton first President attacked by this mob, just on way to dominate air then, led by Limbaugh...and that their many proven brash distortions, perversion swung election --with results we all now see and feel, if not understand. But then facts never dent immoveable misimpressions for any neocon, so why bother with your stuff further ??

Henry Ruark September 3, 2007 7:20 am (Pacific time)

Neal, Scott et al: Remember Iran-Contra ? Payoff created Chavez et al,see Tim's Op Ed...cost billions, many lives, world fear/hatred of form for what was U.S. Worse by far than wipe-off by Clinton... Mine re Idaho Sen. meant to illuminate your politics not sex habits...but you made my point mercilessly by your own words. AND don't forget, same neocon-gangsters there then with befuddled Reagan, too...for "befuddled" see Stockman book, applied several times, pages available on requst. "Fun/games" must end in politics when world domination and descent to War IV at issue.

Neal Feldman September 2, 2007 9:54 pm (Pacific time)

Scott Forbes - Why Carter? Isn't SoDamn Insane a creation of REAGAN? We built him up to stand against Iran. (Another of those selfserving interfering in other folks' affairs things that tends to piss off the world at us you know?). Ah well...

Henry Ruark September 2, 2007 1:41 pm (Pacific time)

Scott et al" While you chuckle over yr beer at conscientious liberals offering you honest dialog, here's one you might remember along with Einstein on War IV: "Those who corrupt the public mind are just as evil as those who steal from the public purse." ...Adlai Stevenson - 1952

Scott Forbes September 2, 2007 12:41 pm (Pacific time)

Seriously, you could ask Saddam since he did a few experiments on his people back in the 80's I recall. Oh, that's right, the evil George Bush had that real life tyrant arrested and tried. Ultimately convicted and hanged, right? Guess you'll have to ask Jimmy Carter. I hear he's pretty tight with some rather nasty dictators.

Scott Forbes September 2, 2007 12:36 pm (Pacific time)

Response to Vic: LOL giving it back to Mexico. "I wonder what kind of pesticide works on ignorant, self-centered , warmongering racists ? " I don't know Vic. Maybe we could use you as a test case. :-)

Vic September 2, 2007 7:57 am (Pacific time)

So Scott, you say everyone in Texas is like Bush ? If that is true , I say we give it back to Mexico pronto with a handwritten apology for the lower life forms we have allowed to thrive there. Perhaps an aerial spraying program would work. I wonder what kind of pesticide works on ignorant, self-centered , warmongering racists ?

Henry Ruark September 2, 2007 7:56 am (Pacific time)

Scott et al: For precise stats re fiscal responsibilities, see today's episode of DOONESBURY, in what once was "Comics" section of Sunday's daily.

Scott Forbes September 2, 2007 7:39 am (Pacific time)

To Neal: Lot's of good pints there. I scanned now and will read carefuly later and respond to your thoughtful comments.

Henry Ruark September 2, 2007 6:56 am (Pacific time)

Churchill coped with some like Scott, and stated of them: W.Churchill; "an intransigent conservative opposed to every liberal tendancy". SO why waste further time and Comment-energy here ?

Neal Feldman September 1, 2007 9:16 pm (Pacific time)

Scott Forbes - As for Cuba this is an example of government acting like a petulant 3 yr old. The funny thing is Cuba came to us first and we sent them packing so of course they went to the Soviets. But with the fall of the Soviet Union over TWO DECADES AGO what is the point, other than sheer stubbornness, to continue the current policies re: Cuba? Makes us look real mature... NOT! As fot Iran if I were them I would be doing anything I could to go nuclear (or 'nucular' as the moron-in-chief keeps saying) - look at it... Shrub comes to power ranting about 'Axis of Evil'... Iraq, North Korea and Iran. Iraq has no nukes... invaded. North Korea has nukes. We talk. No invasion. If YOU were Iran which would you rather be? Nuclear or not? Plus where the blazes do WE, holders of more nukes, biological AND chemical weapons than the rest of the world combined almost, get off telling ANY sovereign nation what weapons they can or cannot have to defend themselves? Especially since our warmongering has shown they need to defend themselves against US! Hmmmm? Ah well...

Neal Feldman September 1, 2007 9:06 pm (Pacific time)

And maybe if we stopped interfering in the rest of the world setting ourselves up as the supreme law on the planet doing to other nations what we would never tolerate their doing to us maybe, just maybe, we would not be as hated in the world. You ever think of that? Islamics did not have any issues with the west until we started those Crusades. Remember those? And do you remember what the Iraq war was originally called? Shining crusade or some other crusade. Someone pointed out that they might not want to be so blatant so they changed it to "Iraqi Freedom" or somesuch. They are as opposed to us forcing our religion (as they see it) onto them as we are opposed to their forcing theirs onto us. But the bottom line is competing religions tend to not play well together. Heck, even within christianity there have been some of the biggest bloodbaths in history. But to call all Islamics anti-American terrorists is akin to painting every christian with the likes of Rev Fred Phelps. It is dishonest to take the

Neal Feldman September 1, 2007 8:57 pm (Pacific time)

Scott Forbes - I have no trouble with quiet resoluteness... but when someone is quietly and resolutely driving off a cliff with me in the car you damn well better bet I'm going to say something about it and likely do something about it. As for your comparing Clinton with Craig why should Clinton have resigned? Ever heard the term 'consenting adults'? pparently not. Any issues of infidelity are between Bill and Hillary and that is it. In reality the whole thing should never even have gone to court as the entire deal showed clearly WHY a sitting president should not be dragged into court over every little thing until he or she leaves office. They can only serve 8 yrs max so this is not unreasonable. Having the country put on hold for years for a petty little issue (I wish he had just paid the $75k she asked for and been done with it but thats another issue)is ludicrous public policy. And what he was being sued for was not anything he did while President... Craig committed criminal acts WHILE a US Senator - even pulling out his business card as if it were a get out of jail free card. Quite different situations indeed. Now in Shrub's and Cheney's cases they HAVE committed crimes while in office and abused the office of the POTUS and violated their oaths of office and the list goes on as I said before. So if Craig is expected to resign over a misdemeanor why aren't Shrub and Cheney forced to resign over having caused over a million needless DEATHS? Hmmmm? A little consistency here please. You expected Clinton to resign over some semen on a dress but have no issue at all with the blood of over a million people, thousands of them AMERICAN TROOPS? Really? Ah well...

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 8:36 pm (Pacific time)

Even as Mr. King endorses Michael Moore's ridiculous comparisons of US to Cuba, I'll wager neither would leave the comfort of here to live there. Nor would I imagine should (God forbid) either would need the kind of medical care that Tony Snow needs, that Mike or Tim would want to be treated in Cuba, even though it's so much better there and all.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 8:27 pm (Pacific time)

And Henry, that quote by Einstein is a good one, one worth remembering.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 8:25 pm (Pacific time)

Attack Iran or Not? Good question and it happens that at National Review Online right now there is an article by my favorite writer Victor Davis Hanson arguing not to, so I'll defer to his judgement. Thank you for asking.

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 6:23 pm (Pacific time)

Scott: "Bad" is value-judgment. To aid you, since neocons now seek atomic-attack on Iran as further extension of Iraq, here's Nobel Prize-winner War IV: "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought,but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)Physicist and Professor, Nobel Prize 1921 Where do you-and-buddies stand on Iran-attack ?

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 6:17 pm (Pacific time)

Scott: Happy to explain in depth, for usual consultant fee. There's limit on what one can write-for-free; but Galbraith put it well: "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: that is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." : John Kenneth Galbraith Neocons built 30-yr. GOP "Noise Machine" to overwhelm U.S. media for partisan political purposes, then lost control to seductive cult now astride proud old party. "The rest is history" --and you can find it for yourself in many volumes easily available. Do believe recent Op Eds may have aided understandings by some, too...if you have trouble with reading-level, seek tutoring provided by Bush NCLB, highly profitable for buddies under law forcing all school districts to furnish help for disadvantaged unable to reach grade levels on own.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 5:48 pm (Pacific time)

Oh Henry! You called me a neo-con. Since I don't know what that means, and since you're against it, let me guess, it's bad?

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 5:34 pm (Pacific time)

(Error here sent Comment too soon. Here's end-sentence.) Tremendous growth of talk-radio was thus touched off, shaping politics ever since by distortion of both "objectivity" and "balance", which still apply when proper use made by professionals on time-tested principles of journalism.

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 5:11 pm (Pacific time)

To all: For any reader seeking to understand this series, here is lead to background: "The 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy."[4] See Wikipedia on Propaganda which starts with that re the Herman-Chomsky Model, from which "spin" --and all else to prevent people from full understanding of events-- has been derived. Neocons believe any level, kind, weight or srength of any instrument can and should be used to achieve their politics which is supremely best for all...which is why we get the obvious immoral and stupid statements from some incapable of anything else. They've been thoroughly brain-shaped by implacable life experience applied by those who believe in neocon philsophy.

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 4:44 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Unfortunately Scott here reveals typical neocon failure to understand that if one accepts basic fact of human dignity, one therefore also must accept basic fact of human rights for each and every individual -- quite literally born with that person and inseparable thereafter. Took centuries for world to learn that simple truth, first taught in large part by every successful world-scattered religion. That's what dictators like Tsu et al never learned to their sorrow...and we still need to teach to some,even in what purported to be the best ever of any democracy-yet. Which is why neocons are, many believe, near-treason now in corporate-financed takeover from which we obviously now suffer. No way to hide realities, no matter how spun, from wit, wisdom and will of those true Americans demanding return of the nation to the people.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 4:38 pm (Pacific time)

For those readers who doubt the existence of anti-Bush bias among main stream journalists, I refer you to the article above. Can you guess if Tim King likes President Bush? I thought the goal was objectivity, no?

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 4:26 pm (Pacific time)

Finally Neal: As for your ability to defend yourself physically, I take your word for it, commend you for it, and would never test it. Unlike a lot of people who have posted here on the anti-Bush side, I don't consider my fellow Americans to be the enemy. It is the Islamic terrorists who would kill us all if they had the chance. Why are Americans bickering amongst themselves? Might be a sign of strength to us, but to our deadly foes it probably seems like a weakness to exploit.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 4:19 pm (Pacific time)

To Neal: My "levels of personal self control" are set on maximum most of the time. Twenty or thirty years ago, not so much. Same with politics. When I was young and stupid I was a flaming liberal like some of the people who posted here yesterday. But time made a man of me and Bill Clinton's infidelities (and Al Gore's defense of him) pushed me to support Bush. Now that Bush is there he deserves way more support than Clinton got which was a lot. To TIM KING: Here's an irony you could comment on. If Bill Clinton had followed Larry Craig's example and resigned, Al Gore would have been president for two years, quite probably elected on his own, then maybe re-elected, then his Vice-President could be president next, but oh wait... Bill Clinton didn't do the honorable thing did he? Because Bill's not an honorable guy when it comes to women. That's something all us guys here should be able to agree on, right?

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 4:08 pm (Pacific time)

As to the burgers (mmm, burgers) we can agree. As to slavishly liking Bush, yeah I like Bush personally, not that I've ever met the man. But growing up in Texas you meet a lot of Bush types. My next door neighbor, most of our school vice principals, all the farmers... just like Bush. Even my step-dad... same easy going resoluteness. It's comforting in these iffy times. Sometimes you need a Churhill. I don't see one in 2008... I guess Rudy comes closest. Hillary can be a (let's say) force of nature sometimes, so maybe she has the most cajones of the Democrats. We'll see.

Neal Feldman September 1, 2007 3:34 pm (Pacific time)

Scott Forbes - As to the face to face thing if you wish private discourse try email. Anything posted as comment here is able to be responded to by anyone. That is how these things tend to operate. As to your clear meaning now being 'face to face' equating to physical assault I have to wonder about your levels of personal self-control. As for Ann Coulter I would not presume to attack a woman (but will defend myself if attacked of course) but her cadaverous appearance (sunken eye and all) does not give me a vision of wiry strength... more like someone about to blow away in a strong breeze. But never fear Scott, if you were to attack me I have no doubts of the outcome. As I said I speak my mind face to face or not and I'm still here. Should count for something. But any time you want to discourse over a burger at Rock n Rogers Im game if you are. Mushroom Swiss burger, fries and chocolate malt... MMMMmmmmmm. Ah well...

Neal Feldman September 1, 2007 3:26 pm (Pacific time)

Scott Scott Scott ... where did I ever claim that was 'high level of discourse'? It was a question relating to your nearly slavish appearing sycophantic babblings regarding Tony Snow that truly seemed to border on the level of 'personal world view' to a delusional level. I think the 'get a grip' comment should have helped categorize it for you. But clearly my expectations of your abilities in this regard seem woefully overconfident and for that I do apologize. Ah well...

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 3:01 pm (Pacific time)

Hats off to Henry for cheating death for so long. Even if I don't agree with Henry, or even understand his point sometimes, I wish him a long life. I want people to give Tony Snow the same regard. Basic human dignity. Even the hated and despised deserve a long life, if for no other reason so as to serve as an example of what not to become. Give Tony the break you would want. Simple as that.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 2:56 pm (Pacific time)

And let's not forget this post from yesterday: "John Ramirez August 31, 2007 3:33 pm (Pacific time) You are a moron Leon, how can you miss the irony of Michael Moore's movie and Tony Snow not being able to afford his own health care? You must be from the special ed community, recognize a good article when you see it! " Get it? it's funny because Tony Snow has cancer. ROFL

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 2:48 pm (Pacific time)

To Neal: Thanks for the friendly advice, but you realize you are referring to a conversation I had with Henry, not specifically you. By my calculation Henry is at least 80 years old. I think I could maybe take him. You? That's a whole 'nother matter. You could be wiry like Ann Coulter... they're the hardest to beat.

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 2:46 pm (Pacific time)

Scott: At 89, I'd old-enough but rapidly decline honor you suggested... Re ditch-digger: Funny, but best mentor I ever had was one, taught me respect for work when I aided him in family project. Have honored all-such ever since...and also respect their right to such benefits as health care, earned simply by fact of being human being. Yrs rub sore-spots left by such as neocons now on verge of killing off all dissent, any way they can...which is much more than lack of sensitivity. Best to you, and "speak it out loud before you write it": old pro-writer test for possible injurious "unintended consequence"...

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 2:42 pm (Pacific time)

Hey Neal. Is this the high level of discourse you're talking about? Neal Feldman September 1, 2007 12:51 pm (Pacific time) Scott Forbes - what are you? In love with Tony Snow? Why don't you take a bottle of lube and go serenade the apparent love of your life? Geez get a grip! (pun intended).

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 2:35 pm (Pacific time)

One or two is not many, Neal. And what's up with Henry using 'sensitive' in every post. Honestly Henry, half the time I have no idea what he is saying half the time. But keep talking anyway. As my wife says, keeps him out of trouble. :-)

Neal Feldman September 1, 2007 2:22 pm (Pacific time)

Scott Forbes - That is one of many times you have used the 'we are not face to face' comment in what some might characterize as a dig or jab accusing your opponent of cowardice on some level. I assure you that for me, at least, I have no trouble with saying anything I have said here to your face, Tony Snow's face or anyone else's face for that matter (other than maybe travel costs.. but if you have the ticket I have the time). So shall we drop the comments in that regard? You may think that they help your case but, you know, they really don't. Just some friendly advice. Whether you will take it remains to be seen. Ah well...

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 2:17 pm (Pacific time)

To Henry: If you have been a teacher and journalist for 60 years, and even if you started when you were young, then you must be old enough to be my father. In my book, that makes you someone to be respected and looked up to. I'm sure I speak for most when I say that your service to our youth as an educator is invaluable. I speak from the heart when I say thank you. Likewise I thank the soldiers who fight in Iraq and I support not only them, but their mission too. As for your years spent as a journalist I have no opinion about that except to say that every journalist I've met (a very few) were fine people and way better with words than most of us. So don't be surprised if those of us who dig ditches for a living don't measure up to a professional wordsmith like yourself.

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 2:16 pm (Pacific time)

Scott: Yr latest continues to prove my points re sensitivity and yr general understandings, deficient on both counts. You surely misunderstand both purpose and protocol for any statement by journalist, confusing such with card of regret to Snow, for which nothing more than 39-cent stamp is needed. Jrnslm purpose is to clarify and extend public understandings. That is heavy responsibility. NOT to be confused with simple assuaging of injured party, per your purported approach here --useful perhaps in neocon newsletter but only fail-for-sure lead in any reality-based publication. Have you wiped your shoes yet ? Wash hands, too, might help but probably not --almost surely too late.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 2:00 pm (Pacific time)

Sorry Henry, I thought I was still responding to Neal. I am one against many and I am trying to keep my end of the conversation spirited but not resort to name calling. But your point is well taken and I could have found a better word. I'll see if one comes to mind. Thank you for your comments, Sir.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 1:56 pm (Pacific time)

Neal, you are right. I said drivel in my original post, but in my defense I did not call Mr. King a 'driveler'. Let me also add that the noun 'drivel' means 'childish or silly talk' (Webster's Desk). That's mild. Mr. King can take it. But if he can't, he can say so himself, and I can apologize to Tim directly. I owe you no apology Neal, but if you need a hug or something... ;-)

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 1:48 pm (Pacific time)

Yes Henry the writing is like digging, except that digging is hot and dirty and what I do for a living. Writing is easy and airconditioned and safe. But for those of us who dig for a living, (it's a metaphore too) you do occasionally have to meet brute force with brute force. So that's why we fight. Some things are worth fighting for. Now your insult earlier to me that I was related to disgraced Senator Larry Craig is not worth fighting over. We agree. But if you were standing in front of me and said that, then you could expect a strong verbal response. Since we are not face to face, I can only convey to you with words that what you said was out of bounds.

Neal Feldman September 1, 2007 1:47 pm (Pacific time)

Henry - regarding Scott's cleaning of hands and shoes/feet I'm thinking it might not come off... kind of like the hard anodizing process. He might need a bit more than some of Adrian's wipe supply. LOL. Ah well...

Neal Feldman September 1, 2007 1:44 pm (Pacific time)

Oh Scott Scott Scott whatver are we to do with you? I never called you any names. I said you came across as the rat defending the sinking ship... I never called you a rat. I said (indirectly) that the term "nitwit" might be reasonably applied but I never stated that you are a nitwit (although the more you post...) You just do not get it or refuse to face it. Your choice. But thank you for the chuckles you have brought to me this morning. You may not intend it but you are quite a funny guy. LOL Ah well...

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 1:41 pm (Pacific time)

Scott: Your lack of sensitivity started with calling writer's work "drivel", After 60 working yrs in both jrnlsm and education, that's worse than faggot ! SO maybe you should say it out loud...and listen carefully, too !...before sending it publicly via Comment here. Our dialogers know "deep voo-doo" when they see it...and don't look now, but both your hands and your shoes require rapid cleansing.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 1:38 pm (Pacific time)

Mr. King, gives Tony Snow a back-handed compliment of not being as intense and hostile as Scott McClellan, then slaps him around a bit for causing a reporter (David Gregory?) to become testy during a televised news conference. Big whoop!

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 1:32 pm (Pacific time)

Tim King's article begins by asking a simple question: Where do we begin when analyzing Tony Snow's departure. And here's where Mr' King begins: Critics say their haste is to be expected after what many call the most failed presidency in U.S. history. Critics like Mr. King. I would begin elsewhere as would most other admires of Tony Snow, by thanking him for his service to his country and his president, and wishing him the best of luck in his continuing battle for his life.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 1:23 pm (Pacific time)

To Neal. You add to the list of names that I have been called since yesterday: rat, nit wit, oh and you forgot to come up with a single word that describes my lack of mental ability. Anyone want to help Neal find the right name to call me? Anyone?

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 1:20 pm (Pacific time)

Scott: More you write, deeper you dig your way into that "deep voo-doo". There are much more important controlling relationships than either blood or sexual, for those sensitive enough to feel and understand them. Your reaction to mine re Sen. Craig demonstrates your status beautifully. Why is it you "true patriots" always gotta make with the muscle ? But of course yours re Chinese warlord makes point painfully clear for your philosophy. As does reaction re health care: "They all want it for free !" --when every other civilized nation now already considers it a human right --along with non-starvation and old/age-care. But then that's the neocon and libertarian way of life. relationships than

Neal Feldman September 1, 2007 1:13 pm (Pacific time)

Scott Forbes - Learn to read and spell it is Neal not Neil... geez it's right in front of you man. And as for your rest think what you like, as I'm sure you will. There is a word to descrive it. I'm sure you will pick the wrong one as usual. And no anger from me Steve... amusement yes and pointing out the facts, but be assured if I were angry there would be no doubt about it (and likely my comments would not pass the screener LOL [wave to the screener] ) Ah well.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 1:12 pm (Pacific time)

Sorry for the misspelled name, Neal.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 1:11 pm (Pacific time)

LOL Nitwit, Rat That's funny. I've also been called 'nasty, brutish and short' but let's leave my wife out of this. :-)

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 1:07 pm (Pacific time)

Yeah, Neal. I've liked Tony Snow since I first saw and heard him. I thought he was an inspired choice for press secretary. By the way, you guys seem to forget that it is the President's press secretary's job to defend the President's policies. Why do you fault him for doing what he's paid to do? I don't get it. Oh right, he works for the devil. I forgot. I remember President Clinton's press secretary, the poor guy. lol

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 1:02 pm (Pacific time)

Spin? Pop Quiz. Who knows where and when it origiated?

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 1:00 pm (Pacific time)

Fair enough Neil. Tony Snow will take it like a man. But if you had taken the time to read what I wrote last night, you'll discover that I attacked no one, only sharing my opinions. If that makes you angry, then I suggest the angst lies entirely within. Did I just attack you with that last sentence? No.

Neal Feldman September 1, 2007 12:58 pm (Pacific time)

Scott Forbes - i do not think anyone called you a Nazi. Although I do think you qualify as another term starts with N ends with t, six letters with 'itwi' in the middle. See if you have the mental bones to put it all together. You do come across as the rat defending the sinking ship, so Rock On, Rat. LOL

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 12:57 pm (Pacific time)

Well Matt, I don't strap on blinders, but I hope you'll let me know if there's something I'm missing that I need to be aware of. If I'm ignorant of the truth as you understand it, and you want to help a fellow American to know what you know, do you think it's wise to start off a conversation by calling names?

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 12:52 pm (Pacific time)

Hi Vic. So I'm a Nazi and our President is Napoleon... uh, ok. Please meet Matt and Henry. Fellow travellers.

Neal Feldman September 1, 2007 12:51 pm (Pacific time)

Scott Forbes - what are you? In love with Tony Snow? Why don't you take a bottle of lube and go serenade the apparent love of your life? Geez get a grip! (pun intended). The article is about Tony Snow. Your desperate ad homina against Al Gore, Michael Moore, Al Franken and who knows who else (your repetitive drivel got boring after the first few so I just skimmed the rest that I bothered to even notice) are entirely as irrelevant as your flaming partisan nonsense. The guy was the willing mouthpiece for the most corrupt, destructive and vile failed administration this country has witnessed in recent memory, if ever. So get used to the fact he is going to get the backlash from all the 'spin' he has been shoveling.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 12:50 pm (Pacific time)

Hi Matt. Henry how can I prove your point when I've forgotten what your point was? Last I read you were trying to call me a name and I said say it to my face and that's where we stand my friend. You called me a faggot and I said unh-unh. Oh and Matt says I'm a twisted little man because he wants to defend your honor. Whew, maybe you guys want a moment alone? ;-)

Matt Johnson September 1, 2007 12:49 pm (Pacific time)

You tell 'em Vic! This country is something we can be proud of again, but the comments in this article sadly remind us that "Americans" and not always who we think they are.

Vic September 1, 2007 12:42 pm (Pacific time)

Scott.what world do you live in ? You would have made a great German circa 1933-45. Patriotism is NOT blindly supporting little Napoleons who trash our country.

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 12:32 pm (Pacific time)

Scott: Again you prove my point: Relationship obvious to sensitive reader of your rant. Re "Art of War", my copy badly marked-up, somewhat harder to understand than "ATLANTIC" which is reality happening now for those who live in 21st Century, need no guidance from Chinese philosopher whose principles surely challenge those of our Founders...or hadn't you noticed ??

Matt Johnson September 1, 2007 12:22 pm (Pacific time)

To Scott Forbes- Hey tough guy, you're backing the wrong horse. There is not a solitary bit of good that Bush has done for this country. Henry is my friend by the way, and you sir seem like a twisted little man who can do nothing but root for the powerful white power brokers, that is your choice. What kind of blinders do you strap on every day by the way?

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 12:18 pm (Pacific time)

Henry wants everyone to read Atlantic. I highly recommend Sun Tzu's "Art of War".

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 11:46 am (Pacific time)

To all: Situational ethics demands I insert following quote here-now for all to see ---and ponder: "Once yu start imposing political tests on people whose business is to see and smell what they haven't already seen and smelled, there'll be nothing left for American newspapers to do but to die." --Todd Gitlin at Columbia U., professor of BOTH sociology and journalism, in AMERICAN PROSPECT 4/O5,p.55. Might add they can always pursue "profits" rather than the truth on events, issues and governance --as some surely already do.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 11:43 am (Pacific time)

To Henry. I am no relation to Senator Craig, or any other politician that I am aware. For the life of me I can't figure out why you would say such a thing. If there was a point perhaps it should be spelled out. If you are implying that like Senator Craig I too troll public restrooms for anonymous sex with other men, then I would be happy to give you directions to my house so you can say that to my face. Otherwise, I'd like to comment on Mr. King's notion that it is ironic that Mr. Snow who has cancer wants to leave as press secretary to make more money. I don't see any irony, unless some unspoken assumptions are included. You would have to first believe that President Bush made cancer treatment expensive. Then it would indeed be ironic if his spokeman had to quit because he couldn't afford the treatment. Is that what Mr. King believes? Or perhaps Mr. King agrees with some of his sympathizers here that Tony Snow got cancer because he deserves it, since he works for Hitler and all?

Confused September 1, 2007 11:38 am (Pacific time)

I just don't understand People are supposed to be here for each other over all things... But god for most religions .. it seems most only care if there right..... Dem., Rep. ect.. I think we deserve better.. Reading all this it seems all the lib's want to do is make a point like a kid trying to make you understand them but, but, but you don't under stand.. never seeing another side to anything.. An the Rep's want to scold you and make you feel so bad you want to put you head down and hide, embarrassed to question anything ever again whether right or wrong.. We need people that care for people ALL people not just the ones that on there side of the fence... Michael Moor is a good man Well so is bush I doubt think either one kicks a cat on the way to bed or thinks waaaahaaahaa what can I do today to bread hate... Most of you sound so full of hate to each other... so many snippy one sided people... nothing is black and white... Kiss your kids, wife, mother, ect... that is the same thing everyone feels no matter what they think..

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 11:16 am (Pacific time)

Scott: You seem to deny journalism as history-happening...who the h... set time-interval when it devolves to "history" ! Re immature statements, see ATLANTIC current issue for its "Lessons of a Failed Presidency"; to join rest of reading-world beyond that easy 10th-grade level.

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 10:25 am (Pacific time)

Cynic: Suggest you should sign as Soothsayer here since your well-displayed sensitivities qualify you very nicely. Thank you for rational, reasonable approach; reflects strong light on pack-attackers displaying usual irrational, immature attitudes, ignorance of facts, essential lack of authoritative information; and that cogitation which alone leads to opinion other than "what everyone has...and all the same".

Cynic September 1, 2007 9:30 am (Pacific time)

I believe the comments here clearly demonstrate that humans are incapable of surviving in a democratic society. Most arguments are emotionally based and biased. Few are interested in the facts. For example, take a look at arguments about US Vs EU country healthcare. All studies of the world's healthcare costs and quality put the US way down on the list--among the worst in the world. And our healthcare is rated highest in the world. So what's to argue about? People who have traveled in Europe and have experienced their healthcare know that their system is far better than ours in the US. I am one of thoese people. What is curious here is how Americans can turn everything into political mud-slinging, which is our highest achievement with our democratic system. What does Michael Moore's moving have to do with Snow's cancer and quitting his job? Why would anyone with his level of cancer want to be working if he didn't have to? Some want to attack Tim King for his political leanings? Consider the conservative media for a moment and their ability to twist every ounce of news to their benefit. And the problem with them is that lying is considered normal behavior. At least Tim King ties to stick with the facts, even though it sometimes detracts from the story.

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 9:05 am (Pacific time)

Scott: Lsst-one was before I read yr reference re "profits". DO believe that proves my point,inevitably, unavoidably ince any rational person can no longer deny what "profit" is doing to our culture and to capitalism itself.

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 8:53 am (Pacific time)

Scott: You any relation to Sen. Larry Craig ?? Immature emphases can lead to big trouble...

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 8:29 am (Pacific time)

To Henry, you contradict yourself buddy. How can historians, eminent or otherwise, judge the present as history. It's not history yet, it's still now. You were joking right? I get it now.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 8:24 am (Pacific time)

As for Michael Moore, I've never met the man, never watched his films, probably disagree with him on everything, but you know, he might be fun to be stranded on an island with, for sure better than Al Gore. The big guy Mike needs to watch his weight though, or the only thing that will save him is the United States health care system that he apparently has issues with. Watch those calories Mike, and for God's sake, do some sit ups man. Health care starts at home brother. :-)

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 8:16 am (Pacific time)

Tony Snow has always perplexed liberals: he's a genuinely decent guy, but he's a very articulate spokesman for coservatives. Unlike say Al Franken, or Tim Robbins or James Carville on the left who are embarrassing for their vitriol. I'd rather be stuck on an island with Tony than with any of the type I mentioned above. Can you imagine being marooned on an island with Alec Baldwin? For a year? (shuddering)

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 8:07 am (Pacific time)

I don't see a 'crisis' in our health care system. The real national crisis is that so many Americans think it should be free for everyone. That's utopian nonsense.

Henry Ruark September 1, 2007 8:04 am (Pacific time)

To all: Plain fact-of-matter here is inevitable, unavoidable, known to all, unmistakable and ruling for any rational and reasonable discussion: ANY "journalist" working for Bush knows absolutely that spin is name of game for plain survival, at any salary. That should tell anyone all they need to know about those gathered in this tragically failed administration, now so judged by eminent, famed and authoritative historians, on basis of solid evidence on the public record. SO for me, with 60 working years "in the media" and in education --where student learning is the true test of effectiveness rather than any kind of "spin"-- Tim's story "told it true", which is what real journalists are still required to do by the ethics and principles of a profession at least as important as any medical segment.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 7:25 am (Pacific time)

Smug and smarmy is a description that fits Al Gore to a tee, but not Tony Snow. Tony's a good man, very smart, and very kind and human, unlike some of the hateful posters on this site.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 7:21 am (Pacific time)

Prfit is good. Very good. Not bad as you imply. As to better health care in other countries, for less, I doubt it. And if so, who cares. I don't live there, I live here and the health care is just fine, thank you.

Henry Minotti September 1, 2007 6:04 am (Pacific time)

I have only lived in one country that had a single payer health care system - and actually had 2 surgeries there. My Mom had an aortic valve and heart bypass there 2 years ago. They may complain but those people will never give up their single payer system to go back to private insurance. For the guy who did not leave a name and bashed those other countries, life expectancy is far greater in those countries than the U.S. and they spend less on healthcare than we do. Of course if a clear thinking person recognizes it, they would see that much of what we spend is to generate profits for a variety of corporations.

Neal Feldman September 1, 2007 4:18 am (Pacific time)

Tony Snow, to me, always came across as smug, smarmy and fake... even when on Fox Newstainment Channel. I do not wish cancer on anyone and maybe now he is feeling the pinch of the neglect this administration he so devoutly seems to support... maybe he will wake up realizing he was on the wrong team. I can only figure karma will out.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 1:02 am (Pacific time)

Lastly, what you call blind nationalism is actually just plain old patriotism. I support Bush and our war in Iraq and I guess Mr. King doesn't. But even if you don't, you don't help the other guy. You know, our enemies? The ones who want to kill us are the real threats, not President Bush or Vice President Cheney who should go straight to the Supreme Court after this.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 12:57 am (Pacific time)

Mr. King wonders how long suffering Bush supporters can go on supporting him in the face of the mess he's led us into in Iraq. I'll be there through the long haul if something doesn't kill me first, like maybe an Islamic fanatic perhaps?

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 12:50 am (Pacific time)

As a former Marine thank your son or daughter for serving their country by being in Iraq. I can only imagine that it is a hellish grind. But you know what? Everyone in the military knows it, and accepts it, or they get out. That's the strength of an all volunteer force. I enlisted right after Vietnam when I was seventeen. The military is a love/hate relationship. But I have spent time in Parris Island talking to young Marines right out of boot camp and they are the finest people you'd ever meet. I'm sure we can agree on that. It dismays me to see so much hatred for Bush, a good man doing a hard job.

Scott Forbes September 1, 2007 12:34 am (Pacific time)

To Mr. King, I'm sure I speak for all commenters (or I hope I do) by commending your trips to Iraq. I have not read your reports and would be pleased to do so. Yet, your accusations of blind support for President Bush is meant to be an ad hominem attack against patriot Americans, but I take it as a compliment. My support is no more blind than it was for Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan Bush1, Clinton1, Bush2, and if need be I'll support Clinton2 if my fellow Americans are foolish enough to elect her. You see, Mr. King, some of us don't let our personal feelings obscure the fact that our leaders accomplish more if we support them than if we gratuitously slam them every chance we get. Kinda like the way you did in your article. Since I live on this planet, I'll answer Mr. King. George Bush's job as President of the United States of America (his full title shared by Bill Clinton who was also my president and who I voted for not once but twice) does not begin and end with being kind and good to the country. All I want from a president right now is to be strong on national defense and to be honest. In both George Bush has performed just fine. Bill Clinton, not so good. I don't know what you judge a president on, but I think Bush is going to go down in history as being the right man at the right time. I shudder to think how Al Gore (my former senator) would have conducted the war against fanatics.

Tim King August 31, 2007 10:50 pm (Pacific time)

I wonder how many of you over-the-top Bush supporters have spent time in those sandboxes overseas that we call Afghanistan and Iraq? Do you have kids over there?

Well I have gentlemen, on both counts, and my reports from the war in Afghanistan are all over and Google, YouTube, etc. You can let go with both barrels if you wish, that is easy to do with a keyboard, but I spent two months recently covering combat and all of my reports were favorable toward the U.S. military's mission there.

What is important to remember is that this country was formed by a bunch of rabble rouser's, people who stood up for what they believe in. Washington and Jefferson broke the status quo.

If you think Bush has been kind and good to this country then you are living on another planet. If you think all of the troops overseas are Bush supporters, you are sadly wrong again. In fact, most feel like they are getting the shaft and they are. So you guys advocate for this misguided president who led us into this mess. I honesly wonder how long many of you would go on supporting people just because they were elected, just for the sake of it. Your sentiments and blind nationalism is not what our forefathers would have anticipated.

Rethink your strategies gentlemen. Also, I have a hard time with all of this from Dr. Prewitt, isn't your oath to save human lives? How does that fit with supporting this misguided administration?

EmpirE August 31, 2007 10:44 pm (Pacific time)

I'm with Tim... King George may just do that... hes chillin in the western white house as we speak... i dont know where that is, but that wasnt the usual White House seal i seen in the back of a couple of press conferences... now we are beefing with Iran also... we already know that england and russia had thier little elbow scrapings... China sending us poisoned s#%t... got other countries testing long range missles that can cross the pacific? Bush is going to declare a state of emergency... MARTIAL LAW... then bom! WW3 is poppin... and King George is ruler!

Editor's note: You have to keep the language clean, no profanity on, thanks.

Kenneth August 31, 2007 10:38 pm (Pacific time)

Mr. King, you can't be serious... "but I do not think that is anything close to his primary reason for doing them in the first place." He sure didn't make the movie to take in 50% as a secondary notion. But then again, your article (and I use that term loosely)screams of skewed logic and grasping at political straws. You need to get a job on The View if you are going to kowtow to all the Bush-haters out there.

jocase August 31, 2007 10:29 pm (Pacific time)

Tony Snow did his job well. The way America is today, if you hate Bush, you hate everyone around him. Tony has a terminal illness but Bush haters don't care. They are obsessed with pointing out who is lying, who is to blame for anything that happens. The man has his own reasons for leaving the job. He should not have to explain himself. It is no ones business why he is leaving.

Thomas Prewitt M.D. August 31, 2007 10:08 pm (Pacific time)

Minor correction: my comments below were directed to "Benny". Not paying attention, I mistakenly thought his last name was "August", instead of just the month. Heh!

Thomas Prewitt M.D. August 31, 2007 10:01 pm (Pacific time)

As a surgical oncologist, I offer my final comment on this unnecessarily vitriolic story. Mr. August, I appreciate and respect your thoughtful comments. I am sorry for you and your mother and can only imagine the pain you both experienced. But with all due respect, I must take issue with a couple of points you raised. First, regarding Mr. Snow, he has newly diagnosed Stage IV colon cancer, having had his inital surgery within the last couple of years, I believe, and now with a recurrence. I do not recall if he had chemotherapy after his first surgery or not. But for what he has now, there are standard chemotherapy regimens with proven efficacy for his diagnosis. It is highly unlikely that a reasonable oncologist would recommend highly experimental therapies without trying standard therapies first. Therefore, his therapy should be covered. At the least, we must honestly say that there is no evidence that Tony Snow is "broke" because he took experimental chemotherapy, a point completely ignored by this reporter. On another front, I believe it is neither factual nor fair to insinuate that standard therapies are unaffective and that the only way to get quality care for cancer is to use expensive, non covered, experimental medicines. Again, with sincere respect for the tragic situation involving your mother, for the sake of clarity, I am compelled to say that your statements are simply untrue. Most experimental therapies end up as disappointing failures and most standard therapies are paid by insurance companies because they have actually been proven to work, at least to some degree. But again, my reason for responding to this article by Mr. King is to remark that this is substandard reporting from a medical perspective and seizes the opportunity to make a political point at the expense of a very private, very painful, and very frightening time in the life of husband and father. We might not all agree with Mr. Snow, but he deserves our prayers and respect. As for those who have apparently risen from the gutter to speak of Mr. Snow in purile, vile terms, may you not suffer the indigities you hoist on Tony when someone close to lives and works with incurable cancer. Come back to Mr. Snow's family at that time and offer an apology for your embarassing insensitivity. Mr. August, I hope on that point, you and I can agree.

Scott Forbes August 31, 2007 9:40 pm (Pacific time)

Mr. king could not find room in his essay to say that Tony Snow is such a gentleman that he even won over Helen Thomas. I actually saw her laugh at something Tony said. How about that for a place to begin to analyze his departure?

Steve Sanborn August 31, 2007 9:38 pm (Pacific time)

To Matt Johnson:If I have written the "stupidest" thing you ever..heard(?) need to read your response to me...Matt,your moral compass is beyond repair.Steve Sanborn

Scott Forbes August 31, 2007 9:30 pm (Pacific time)

For clarity, the problem many of us have with Mr.King's article is its tone. He hates President Bush, my president and yours, and uses the occasion of a dying man's departure to bludgeon the man that others on this post have called Hitler and criminal. It is your hatred that defines your position o almost every issue and that is not logic, but emotion. So get a grip, and try not to be so angry over there on the left. We conservatives love you, but we feel you are dangerously misguided and we want to help you find your way. It's as simple as that. Semper Fi.

Scott Forbes August 31, 2007 9:17 pm (Pacific time)

To Allen Barnes. If you labeled me a criminal, you could be sued. But you do it to the Bush family because you can and nothing will happen. That makes for cowardice, Sir.

Allen Barnes August 31, 2007 9:05 pm (Pacific time)

Listen to you guys, this reporter is bad for calling it the way it is right? Why don't you just admit it. One thing is clear, the mean spirited people are not the ones writing the story, just the comments. You can all go to your graves sticking up for the "poor little republicans" but everyone knows they are a wash and so are you. I'll bet you guys always stood by the school bully and not the kid being picked on, even you doc, because you seemingly make light of the tragedy that the Bush crime family has brought this once great nation.

Benny August 31, 2007 9:02 pm (Pacific time)

First, there wasn't really anything bad said about Mr. Snow, and he's the main focus of the article. The line about "most failed presidency" was attributed specifically to the critics of the administration. That is a fact. A critic of this administration does think it's a massive failure. A supporter of this administration thinks its not a failure. Both are factual statements. The other issue is about "Sicko". The author was wrong to tie this situation somehow to a half-skewed movie about healthcare, however, let it not be said that the healthcare situation in this country precludes very wealthy from having to bare a large cost. If you take an absolutely standard cancer-fighting protocol, you will probably not be getting the best care available. If you are even close to having almost enough resources to try experimental drugs, or take non-protocol combinations, you will, because you want a better than crappy chance of survival. You will also pay exhorbitant sums out of pocket. My mother (who had some money) was prescribed two insurance covered medications. However because the combination of the 2 medicines broke protocol, the insurance company wouldn't cover the medications, or chemo. Her out of pocket expenses reached thousands of dollars per month. The first poster, claiming that 2-3 million dollars is more than enough coverage is right...only if the insurance company covers what you need to live. Thanks to my mother spending thousands upon thousands of dollars from her own pocket, (even though she also paid thousands every year for health insurance) was able to buy an extra year of her life. The medicine combo that my mother was allowed to take through insurance was not doing anything. The minute she paid for her own medicines, the cancer slowed down to a crawl. I am not a conservative, nor am I a liberal. The divide in this country is childish at best. Every comment on this article should be about well-wishes for Mr. Snow. Maybe he's not broke, maybe his insurance is doing a great job of coverage. Regardless, he is a man who is probably scared, and has a family who cares about him and loves him. Good luck Mr. Snow

Scott Forbes August 31, 2007 9:00 pm (Pacific time)

Well said, Doc. Shame on Mr. King for his blinding hatred towards everything Bush.

you're all idiots August 31, 2007 8:51 pm (Pacific time)

have any of you morons lived in one of these "universal" health care countries? I've lived in several. guess what, dillweeds, private practice in these countries is flourishing. "Why?", you morons ask. Universal healthcare sucks. it kills. soon, the vast majority of people in these so-called "universal" healthcare countries will be members of private healthcare. do some research you boneheads.

sarahb August 31, 2007 8:48 pm (Pacific time)

Either a) Snow is suggesting that the price of treating his cancer is far greater than his health insurance and income will cover, or b) he has no budgeting skills whatsoever. Last I checked 168K is considered a comfortable salary even if you have 3 kids. But I'd guess Snow could spend 100% of ten years' salary on his treatment and it would barely touch the costs. It will be interesting to see if someday we hear that Snow has parted ways with Bush and the GOP on healthcare. If so, he'll be part of a tradition of prominent republicans who only become capable of compassion on a politicized issue when something touches their own personal lives in a dramatic, hit-you-over-the-head way.

Tim August 31, 2007 8:47 pm (Pacific time)

Good riddance. Another lying icehole from the most frightening administration since Hitler. This country gets what it deserves. Anybody want to bet on King George seizing power at the end of his term?

Thomas Prewitt M.D. August 31, 2007 8:11 pm (Pacific time)

Clearly,the author of this article knows very little about health insurance. Mr. Snow likely has good insurance. He probably has a $500 deductible, $2000 maximum out of pocket limit, and $2-3 million maximum benefit. For his disease process, he has come nowhere near his total benefit allowance. This article demonstrates two major problems with journalism today. First, journalists get degrees in journalism, but they have no knowledge about the subject matter on which they report. From my perspective, as a practicing physician, this particularly common for health care reporting. This article serves as a case in point. The other issue relates to the motivations for journalists. In this case, the author demonstrates a desire to spin a political line that simply is not there. And the author does so in what I think is a particularly insensitive fashion. If the author had the slightest idea of what he was writing about, he would know that Mr. Snow has an incurable disease with a dismal prognosis. Did the author consider that perhaps he needs more money to help provide for the future of his wife and children who will more than likely be without a husband and father in a couple of years. Probably not. People like you don't seem to care for much more than a byline. Shame on you, Mr. King.

Anonymous August 31, 2007 7:56 pm (Pacific time)

"Critics say their haste is to be expected after what many call the most failed presidency in U.S. history." -not factual in the least bit

Tim King August 31, 2007 7:28 pm (Pacific time)

OK, but Michael Moore uses that money to promote more than a money-making agenda and that is my point. Certainly you do not fault him for making 50% of the money from his own movie? I certainly agree that Moore has made a good deal of money from his films, but I do not think that is anything close to his primary reason for doing them in the first place.

Anne August 31, 2007 6:50 pm (Pacific time)

Whoops, below post unintentionally Anon. -Anne

Anonymous August 31, 2007 6:47 pm (Pacific time)

TK: "Moore has little to gain from his endeavors." Oh really? According to the LA Times, "Thanks to a lucrative contract negotiated with the Weinstein Co. by his talent agent, Endeavor's Ari Emanuel, Moore is in line to receive 50% of "Sicko's" gross profits — arguably one of the most lucrative deals on Hollywood's books, richer even than those enjoyed by the likes of Tom Cruise, Julia Roberts and director Peter Jackson." Sicko's Worldwide Box Office take: $25,353,837

Henry Ruark August 31, 2007 6:18 pm (Pacific time)

Relevance is always in mind of reader, allasame as myth of "objectivity, as new studies of mind-mechanisms make entirely clear. (See Pinker, Chomsky, et al.) Tim reports head-on to the realities here, for me. Long one by Anon makes more sense than clatter-clamor raised by those who cannot put "liberal" vs "conservative" into trashbin and face up to 21st Century life-truths.

Yazmin August 31, 2007 6:06 pm (Pacific time)

Anyone who believes that Cuba's healthcare systems is one of the best in the world is as stupid and ignorant as Michael Moore. The communist propaganda is free for every turist to experience and talk about. While those 911 heroes received free treatment in Cuba, Cubans had to bring their own sheets, anesthesia, medicine, and even a fan to keep cool in the hospital. If it was not for their families in the United States, many Cubans will be dying without treatment as many other people die in other poor countries. Wake up America!

Mark C. August 31, 2007 5:48 pm (Pacific time)

Tom, this isn't news. It's blatant one-sided drivel. Bush's presidency the "most U.S. history"? Hardly. For that moniker you start with Bill Clinton, then jump back to Jimmy Carter. Sicko, man.

Tim King August 31, 2007 4:56 pm (Pacific time)

I wrote this article, and I included Bush's thoughts and many things about Snow that are not political at all. The fact that a movie about the failing national healthcare system is being viewed by millions as this public official resigns over financial strain is an interrelated matter.

The biggest paradox about the Moore haters, is that most of them have never even watched his documentaries. Ask any military commander if they would turn down the opportunity to see what the "other side" is saying, they will answer with a collective, resounding NO.

I think people avoid Moore's movies because they want to keep their head in the sand. Michael Moore is your conscience whether you like it or not.

Moore has little to gain from his endeavors, he is doing what he does because he perceives a problem and he goes after it. Moore is right on about healthcare and people are bothered that he was able to go to Cuba with 911 Ground Zero workers who are being denied treatment by the U.S. government and see them receive excellent treatment.

I see comments from people who slam things because they are perceived as "liberal." They must care little about the people who cleaned the rubble in New York after September 11th but are not even being taken care of physically.

So here comes Tony Snow who we know is ill with cancer, and he's leaving one of the highest profile jobs in the nation because the pay is not sufficient. We all know that anyone who suffers from cancer suffers financially. It is right in our face and hard to miss, I think the timing screams of "Sicko" and I gather from some of these comments that many people agree.

Bill August 31, 2007 4:46 pm (Pacific time)

Why not report a story about Tony Snow leaving. what does it have to do with this writer's opinion of the success of Pres Bush? What does Tony Snow's fight with cancer got to do with Michael Moore? Tony Snow, great American. Michael Moore, great Cuban. If the writer doesn't like Pres Bush then just say so rather than injecting little comments in this story?

Scott Forbes August 31, 2007 4:41 pm (Pacific time)

I am always impressed by the quality of conservative commentators' arguments for their positions. On the left however there is a distinct lack of grace and style, coupled with completely foolish arguments. Sigh. I didn't even finish reading this guy's drivel. I'll go back to National Review online. Charles Krauthammer... ah, there's the ticket.

Witchy_Brew August 31, 2007 4:39 pm (Pacific time)

Hey, who cares about health care when you have big energy robbing you of your health ? Really. Go wrap YOUR lips around an exhaust pipe, don't want to ? why ? Yet ? We 'accept' that cars just drive on by spewing out exhaust. Amazing. We deserve the health we inherit from the world we pollute.

Living Wage August 31, 2007 4:34 pm (Pacific time)

I would have never thought that Tony Snow was one of the millions of "Working Poor."

Mark S PhD August 31, 2007 4:31 pm (Pacific time)

Excellent writing. It only took three sentences to reveal your incredible bias.

Donna Dibella August 31, 2007 4:30 pm (Pacific time)

using "Broke" is such a harsh word which intimates foreclosure, bankruptcy, bread lines, etc. I'm sure if he makes over 150K/year that he isn't "broke" so why make up that word in a news article.

Hope Inman August 31, 2007 4:17 pm (Pacific time)

Why such hate in words? The man has cancer,the man has kids a family.Give him a break.Yes Bush is going to meet his maker and he has to answer so will everyone else who does things for the wrong reasons.Personal gain,greed,jealousy,power etc. all the wrong reasons.We will all have to answer for our mistakes one day but before then lets try to do what is right for the right reasons.It starts with you.......................

Anonymous August 31, 2007 4:08 pm (Pacific time)

To: Daniel O'Hara August 31, 2007 3:48 pm (Pacific time) John Ramirez August 31, 2007 3:33 pm (Pacific time) How much are the Republicans paying you folks? Why is it that you folks can't get it through your head that Michael Moore is irrelevant to the real issue and that is that EVERY industrialized nation on earth seems to have some form of universal healthcare but us. The really sad part is, even the President and most other oficials in the US think the current system sucks, it's just that we've been so browbeat into thinking "free market" is the great panacea for everything, we have yet to realize that almost no system is truly "free market" because of various factors(not the least being that true competition does not exist and given the nature of the product there is very little incentive for companies to compete on price because people will pretty much pay whatever price they set). The truth is, with the exception of healthcare, there are very few sectors of society that isn't being heavily regulated by the government. Why is healthcare so unique? The answer is that there are lots and lots of insurance companies making huge profits off of peoples suffering. Now, I'd love to hear examples of where the free market is so much more superior to government intervention, but all I come up with are systems that end up hurting the US citizens and steering profits to the wealthy few (*cough* sub-prime problem *cough*). As a bit of irony, that perhaps you folks don't understand. Under the current system, Tony Snow is probably unable to get healthcare insurance on his own, if he isn't able to secure it through working. The reason being is that he's had cancer, which pretty much will get him denied by any insurance company. The big problem is that none of the Republican plans adequately deal with this issue, and the ranks of people in Tony Snows shoes is growing. Finally, to all those so afraid of universal healthcare, remember that the US government already insures roughly 45% of the population (Medicare, Medicaid, and VA benefits), so we are far closer to a socialized medical system than a true free market one.

Daniel O'Hara August 31, 2007 3:48 pm (Pacific time)

This story is twisted. It is a propaganda piece for the radical left and is typical deception (magnifying the negatives of Bush and free enterprise and magnifying the "positives" of Cuba's health care system to make it seem like a dream). Why not frame it as the press being combative with the President of the United States?

Don Espo August 31, 2007 3:47 pm (Pacific time)

The word is "quash", not "squash".

Editor: Don, thanks.

David Brands August 31, 2007 3:45 pm (Pacific time)

Tony Snow-job. Now he wants us to believe resigning has nothing to do with his cancer. If you've seen him lately, you'd see he looks nothing like the picture with Tim King's story. The rigors of cancer and dodging, weaving and outright lying can put the years on quickly. He was only on 17 months! Dana Perino is no better but definitely easier on the eyes.

Wasted time reading this article August 31, 2007 3:42 pm (Pacific time)

Spoken like a misguided-clueless Oregon liberal

Matt Johnson August 31, 2007 3:40 pm (Pacific time)

Steve Sanborn - Bill Clinton was a great president, ten times the man that this little bush POS is. Clinton got a blow job, I think that is just great, I would too if I was the President of the and%$#@ United States, so would you but maybe you swing the other way? One prez soils and tarnishes your country's reputation forever, turns us into a bunch of animals in Iraq while ignoring Afghanistan, gets 3,500 Americans and untold civilians killed... you have written one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.

John Ramirez August 31, 2007 3:33 pm (Pacific time)

You are a moron Leon, how can you miss the irony of Michael Moore's movie and Tony Snow not being able to afford his own health care? You must be from the special ed community, recognize a good article when you see it!

FreedomOfInformationAct August 31, 2007 3:26 pm (Pacific time)

Perhaps he could ask Dick Cheney for a loan, god knows he's got more than he could ever spend in his coffers from haliburton's no bid contracts in iraq for four years.

Gnu August 31, 2007 3:23 pm (Pacific time)

Broke, yeah right. NO-ONE leaves Washington with an empty wallet. I love Bush's comment about being a "solid contributor to society". Maybe he'll contribute to society by sucking off business travellers in airport bathrooms. That would be very similar to his current job.

Steve Sanborn August 31, 2007 3:23 pm (Pacific time)

Tim...most failed presidency in history??? You don't remember impeached and disbarred Bill!!!! Get a brain..

TrueAmerican August 31, 2007 2:37 pm (Pacific time)

Too bad Tony decided it was a better job, not better paying it seems, to be the spokesperson for the most incompetent president the US has ever had, instead of looking out for himself and family. Whats worse is, he could have done the same thing, but by continuing to work for FOX NEWS, all they do is sing the praises of GWB.

Leon August 31, 2007 2:28 pm (Pacific time)

Bringing in SICKO is both stupid and low. Anyone with Tony's level of pay in the past, had excellent and has excellent health insurance, unless they are idiots. You probably don't have good health insurance. If you do, check with your psychologist for an IQ rating.

Daniel Bertalotto August 31, 2007 2:08 pm (Pacific time)

This story strays so far off-topic, it's almost sad. Sorry, Tim King. This was the worst I've read in speculative journalism. Learn to stick with the facts rather than finding threads.

Jack Scott August 31, 2007 2:07 pm (Pacific time)

A book deal in the making ???

haha! August 31, 2007 2:06 pm (Pacific time)

michael moore is such a fat idiot! tony snow, you will be missed, my friend

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